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Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

jujuman13 said:
I have to admit I was at a loss to see what gain Israel would have from boarding this ship (not realizing until later that there were several ships in a convoy), I would much prefer that Israel not board this latest ship but instead immobilize it so that it drifts around until someone comes to collect a salvage fee for rescuing it.
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Then, Israel would be breaking maritime law by not rendering assistance to a ship in distress. Not to mention, firing upon a Turkish flagged ship would have been an act of war against Turkey. Ever hear of the Lusitania?
 
apdst said:
Then, Israel would be breaking maritime law by not rendering assistance to a ship in distress. Not to mention, firing upon a Turkish flagged ship would have been an act of war against Turkey. Ever hear of the Lusitania?
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Actually Israel is allowed to shoot at ships that do not answer its warnings(Even on international waters) and intend on running its naval blockade, according to international law.
 
jujuman13 said:
I have to admit I was at a loss to see what gain Israel would have from boarding this ship (not realizing until later that there were several ships in a convoy), I would much prefer that Israel not board this latest ship but instead immobilize it so that it drifts around until someone comes to collect a salvage fee for rescuing it.
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Now this would have been a great idea.
 
apdst said:
Then, Israel would be breaking maritime law by not rendering assistance to a ship in distress. Not to mention, firing upon a Turkish flagged ship would have been an act of war against Turkey. Ever hear of the Lusitania?
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Hmm you do have a point here.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Here's the problem, Zyph. If the audio was of George Bush definitively offering Michael Moore a bribe, rather than some odd rambling, the suspension of disbelief, regardless of the source would be minimized. Is it possible that it could be some odd snippets that Moore put together? Sure, however, one must look at the quality of the audio. Does this seem legitimate? Based on the quality and the presentation, I would lean more towards it's legitimacy than not, and I have heard nothing definitive on the negative side.
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I have a doubt because on the 31st May the IDF released a video recording (or recording same picture) saying the same and the person replied, 'no we are going to Gaza'. This I understood was supposed to be the recording from the ship where all hell broke lose. It seems to me that it would have been in Israel's interest to release this video on the 31st if that and not 'no, we are going to Gaza' was what the people on that boat said.
 
Apocalypse said:
provide basis for the validity of the recordings by approving that the voice of one of the recorded passengers was real. (His wife)
That she wasn't on the Mavi Marmara absolutely does nothing to prove that the recording wasn't real, at most it was a mistake to label this as a recording from the Mavi Marmara specifically and not from the flotilla as a whole.
And if you haven't noticed it earlier, the wife not being on the Mavi Marmara, according to the article, is the only thing that they have that questions its validity, and even that doesn't question the validity of the recording.
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I believe she was on the Challenger. I therefore assumed that this is supposed to be a collection of them talking to all the ships.
 
Redress said:
Both your sources are ultimately the IDF. If the IDF is of questionable accuracy(and they are since they are in the middle of the events), then neither is reliable. I am not doubting that the recording is real, only showing the flaw in your argument. Personally, I think the recordings are probably real, but I can see how people can question them.
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Ummmm...... Being as this was an incident that occurred out in the middle of the freaking sea, how exactly could there be an independant witness on this matter?
 
Caine said:
Ummmm...... Being as this was an incident that occurred out in the middle of the freaking sea, how exactly could there be an independant witness on this matter?
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They could let someone examine the tape to see if it's been doctored.
 
alexa said:
I believe she was on the Challenger. I therefore assumed that this is supposed to be a collection of them talking to all the ships.
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And you were correct.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
Wow that was probably the fakest recording I've ever heard. Isn't this the same news source that claimed that some of the Flotilla passengers desired to be martyrs? Two pretty big stories that never showed up anywhere else AFAIK. Sounds like the source is the problem.
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The Turkish newspapers were the first to report the martyRdom story and the story has since been picked up by the MSM:

Flotilla raid: Turkish jihadis bent on violence attacked troops, Israel claims | World news | The Guardian

That's from the Guardian.
 
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Redress said:
Both your sources are ultimately the IDF. If the IDF is of questionable accuracy(and they are since they are in the middle of the events), then neither is reliable. I am not doubting that the recording is real, only showing the flaw in your argument. Personally, I think the recordings are probably real, but I can see how people can question them.
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A) Who else is going to release video footage held by the IDF but the IDF?

B) This is what we refer to as an ad-hominem logical fallacy. To simply assume that the video is inauthentic simply because of its source with no other evidene backing up that conclusion is not a valid argument.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Actually, both sources produced identical tapes. As far as authenticity goes, I have heard from the pro- side. Let's hear from the anti- side. Any evidence that this tape is NOT authentic?
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Well I was watching Flemish news (I'm trying to improve my Dutch :) ) and I think I did find evidence that the tape is a fake, and this really makes me feel very uncomfortable.

First, listen to the Jpost tape, published on June 4

YouTube - Flotilla Ship to Israeli Navy: "We're Helping Arabs Go Against the US, Don't Forget 9/11 Guys"

it says "we're the Israeli navy, you're approaching an area which is under a naval blockade / Shut up, go back to Auschwitz"

Now watch this Flemish newspaper from May 31. You'll see the actual scene filmed with the complete tape recording

Videozone (on the right, clic on "Terzake 2010 - 31/05/10" and then "Israëlische commando's enteren vloot" Watch at roughly 1'10")

it says "we're the Israeli navy, you're approaching an area which is under a naval blockade" and then hear no "go back to Auschitz", in fact no one responds and the IDF soldier keeps on talking, he adds "the region of Gaza has been..."

Since it is filmed, it is impossible that the Flemish video is a fake.
 
bub said:
Well I was watching Flemish news (I'm trying to improve my Dutch :) ) and I think I did find evidence that the tape is a fake, and this really makes me feel very uncomfortable.

First, listen to the Jpost tape, published on June 4

YouTube - Flotilla Ship to Israeli Navy: "We're Helping Arabs Go Against the US, Don't Forget 9/11 Guys"

it says "we're the Israeli navy, you're approaching an area which is under a naval blockade / Shut up, go back to Auschwitz"

Now watch this Flemish newspaper from May 31. You'll see the actual scene filmed with the complete tape recording

Videozone (on the right, clic on "Terzake 2010 - 31/05/10" and then "Israëlische commando's enteren vloot" Watch at roughly 1'10")

it says "we're the Israeli navy, you're approaching an area which is under a naval blockade" and then hear no "go back to Auschitz", in fact no one responds and the IDF soldier keeps on talking, he adds "the region of Gaza has been..."

Since it is filmed, it is impossible that the Flemish video is a fake.
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Lol bub, the audio record this thread is about was taken before the warnings given to the ships just before the interception took place (the ones you're referring to), it's an audio record of a conversation between the Israeli navy and the flotilla ships while they were still far from the interception point and were warned due to their intentions.

I believe it does show us how soon you're jumping into conclusive conclusions.
 
IIRC, two separate warnings were issued by radio, not one. This is in accordance with Maritime Law.
 
Apocalypse said:
Lol bub, the audio record this thread is about was taken before the warnings given to the ships just before the interception took place (the ones you're referring to), it's an audio record of a conversation between the Israeli navy and the flotilla ships while they were still far from the interception point and were warned due to their intentions.

I believe it does show us how soon you're jumping into conclusive conclusions.
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But two recordings are different, one of them must be a fake.

What is your source for the "go back to auschwitz" comment?
 
bub said:
I just saw this post. Incredible.
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Yeah, I though the posting was ridiculous, too.

The extent people will go to in order to pursue their anti-Israel agenda is amazing, isn't it?
 
bub said:
Well I was watching Flemish news (I'm trying to improve my Dutch :) ) and I think I did find evidence that the tape is a fake, and this really makes me feel very uncomfortable.

First, listen to the Jpost tape, published on June 4

YouTube - Flotilla Ship to Israeli Navy: "We're Helping Arabs Go Against the US, Don't Forget 9/11 Guys"

it says "we're the Israeli navy, you're approaching an area which is under a naval blockade / Shut up, go back to Auschwitz"

Now watch this Flemish newspaper from May 31. You'll see the actual scene filmed with the complete tape recording

Videozone (on the right, clic on "Terzake 2010 - 31/05/10" and then "Israëlische commando's enteren vloot" Watch at roughly 1'10")

it says "we're the Israeli navy, you're approaching an area which is under a naval blockade" and then hear no "go back to Auschitz", in fact no one responds and the IDF soldier keeps on talking, he adds "the region of Gaza has been..."

Since it is filmed, it is impossible that the Flemish video is a fake.
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There is something wrong with the script on that page. You can't scroll down to see a 31/05/10 option.
 
bub said:
But two recordings are different, one of them must be a fake.
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See my post above. Two different warnings are required by Maritime Law. It is possible that both recordings are correct.
 
bub said:
But two recordings are different, one of them must be a fake.

What is your source for the "go back to auschwitz" comment?
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Those are two recordings of two different transmissions bub.
The IDF has stated that when it has released this audio recording, it's in Ido's post in the ME forum, and I believe I've referred to it in one of my previous posts in this thread.
 
Agent Ferris said:
There is something wrong with the script on that page. You can't scroll down to see a 31/05/10 option.
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Well at a point the show the same video that has been posted by Degreez, which is the original one.
 
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