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What part of raiding an aid flotilla in international waters is legal?
Israeli military gives version of flotilla incident - CNN.com
""They beat us up with metal sticks and knives," he said. "There was live fire at some point against us... They were shooting at us from below deck."
Now apparently the activists had magic guns that disappear once dropped because the IDF has yet to find any firearms or present proof that any firearms except their own were fired or even present.
The only reason you haven't seen it is because you ignore what people say. According to international conventions on maritime law, which I have previously posted, Israel has to seek permission from the host government of a ship to stop and seize it in international waters, which they did not do.
Because no indication of any threat has been found onboard the ships. We also dont know what Israel knew because they arent being very forthcoming with the impetus for stopping and searching the ships.
It's provided in the link you responded to, dont blame me for you being lazy.
What part of raiding an aid flotilla in international waters is legal?
Which part is illegal?
Israel's foreign ministry said it had warned the ambassadors of Cyprus, Greece, Ireland, Sweden and Turkey -- from where the ships set sail -- that it had "issued warrants that prohibit the entrance of the vessels to Gaza."
The flotilla "is about to break international law," the ministry's director general Yossi Gal told the diplomats.
And therefore a highly uncredible source. If these people can hide nuclear bombs in tiny Israel, they can hide a few truths about a boat. The first hand account of all those on board, German/British/American/Turkish you name it have described the handling of the situation by the IDF heavy handed and unnecessarily bloody.Those are pictures from the office of the IDF spokesman buddy.
And you should ask yourself why.
Which part is illegal?
And therefore a highly uncredible source. If these people can hide nuclear bombs in tiny Israel, they can hide a few truths about a boat. The first hand account of all those on board, German/British/American/Turkish you name it have described the handling of the situation by the IDF heavy handed and unnecessarily bloody.
I only see sticks being used?
This is just pathetic. An apache helicopter has managed to circle out a blurred figure in the distance holding a knife. wtf. I just saw the top of somebodies head.
Those rods have not been confirmed as being metal in fact your pictures do not show metal rods.
I still only see activists defending themselves.
I believe al-Jazeera has an edited video floating around the media that was filmed during the interception, no?
Your bias is getting too much for me. Given that the people never expected Israel to attack them on the high seas, they clearly did not have time to work out that they would die at Israels hands for propaganda. Have you looked at Free Gaza. Your bias is just too much for me.Their entire purpose was propaganda, you can't expect them to stop the propaganda now.
Those folks have attacked Israeli soldiers that haven't attacked them, how credible do you think they are?
Correct. Only one of the ship has had a crew of about 100 people trying to lynch and murder the soldiers.
Three nutters who slipped through the net out of around 700 people and they are the only ones who grab your attention. If you visit Free Gaza website you will find they made it absolutely clear that they were wanting no violence.Those folks are jihadists, and 3 of the people who died are filmed before the interception as they dream about becoming Shahids. (martyrs)
You're speaking with bias.
I think she was caught on lying and people who listen to her are people who want her versions to be true, people who support the anti-Israeli propaganda knowing that it's pure propaganda.
Doesn't matter, Israel has legally boarded the ship and the soldiers were illegally attacked and assaulted with the clear intent of killing them.
They've had every right to react in self-defense when being shot at by the lynching mob.
I think that there are enough videos already that create a basis for the claim that the soldiers were being lynched.
Fantasy and judging something before any facts are known. Fair enquiry. roflThe chopper's rope is being grabbed and tied to an antena in order to bring it down, before the soldiers have even boarded the ship.
Israel needs to carry an international-level investigation, with overseers from all the nations and organizations I've listed above, and prove that the facts are with it and that it has done everything legally.
Why has only the Mail Online reported on this? Because its unfounded and uncomfirmed.
Not at all, it has no history of misleadings.And therefore a highly uncredible source.
Israel has failed in hiding its nuclear weapons but I fail in seeing how is this an analogy.If these people can hide nuclear bombs in tiny Israel, they can hide a few truths about a boat.
So they are credible, even though they were found to be lying when they said at first that soldiers weren't attacked, and yet the IDF is not credible.The first hand account of all those on board, German/British/American/Turkish you name it have described the handling of the situation by the IDF heavy handed and unnecessarily bloody.
You're the only one talking about anti-Semitism here buddy, which only acts to show you're rejecting the truth.Tell me your convinced the BBC is anti-semetic. Please. Make my day. This isn't 1945 baby. The anti-Semites don't call the west Zionist Occupational Government for nothing you know.
Those sticks are called crowbars, and in two of the videos you can see knives and molotovs.I only see sticks being used?
It didn't come out of the blue, they knew exactly what's waiting for them(the boarding of the ship) and they were warned twice to stop the ship and refused to comply.The circled thing in red could be a strap-on for all you could tell, but that was convinently branded as a "WMD" probably. Let me tell you buddy if i was sailing by boat in international waters and a bunch of Jews jumped on my boat id be going all SS over there arses too.
Actually they were, haven't you seen the video where they throw a stun grenade on the IDF speed boat? They look like metal rods to me.This is just pathetic. An apache helicopter has managed to circle out a blurred figure in the distance holding a knife. wtf. I just saw the top of somebodies head.
Those rods have not been confirmed as being metal in fact your pictures do not show metal rods. The last video in the end obviously shows a wooden rod despite its insistence otherwise. I still only see activists defending themselves from an illegal raid.
All of it?
Haven't seen it. Have seen one or two bits but nothing like you would have got with everyones phones which would have made it possible to get possible a fuller picture - if someone was able to put all the bits together and phones were timed and so on.
Say what you will, if you buy into their words just like that then you're pretty much strongly biased yourself, considering that the facts show they've done it all for propaganda purposes.Your bias is getting too much for me. Given that the people never expected Israel to attack them on the high seas, they clearly did not have time to work out that they would die at Israels hands for propaganda. Have you looked at Free Gaza. Your bias is just too much for me.
Three of the deads have talked about becoming Shahids for ****'s sake.
You're refferring to it as a fact while it isn't.Even the people on the boats where there was no violence against Israelis complain of being beaten and humiliated.
There's no reason to take their words for granted, and yet you do.
Your bias is overwhelming, and if you'd think objectively for a moment and let your ego down you'd see that I'm right.
They were not attacked.These people were defending their boat when it was being attacked.
They have attacked the soldiers.
Not according to the footage.I do not think it was a sensible thing to do but that is what they were doing.
You're not making actual arguments here.We have already seen in other threads that it is really stupid to descend from helicopters onto areas where people are waiting with battons and Paul (Gunner)from his experience as a soldier has pointed out that this is a very forceful way to go about things.
They were no peace activists, that's for certain.As Israel was dealing with International civilians on a ship of another country in high seas, this at the least seems a very provocative stance to take. As Israel apparently already believed them to be jihaddists, even more so, given that along with them were peace activists from around the world.
Youtube has more than one videos on this, it's just that you're not used to the other side backing up its statements with videos and evidence.and youtube has not one video on this and our news has not even suggested this as any possibility.
Over 100 nutters have slipped through the net.Three nutters who slipped through the net out of around 700 people and they are the only ones who grab your attention. If you visit Free Gaza website you will find they made it absolutely clear that they were wanting no violence.
Not all of the people have attacked the soldiers, but those who did have done so with the intention to kill them and have suffered from the consequences.
The soldiers have reacted with an amazing restraint.
She said that soldiers were not attacked at all.What was she cought on lying with. Many people have said the Israelis came on board firing. Whether they did or not I do not know.
The second lie was that the soldiers came on board firing.
It seems like you've decided that, since you promtoe the thinking that the soldiers should have dropped dead instead of defending their lives.I don't know if anyone has decided that people have no right to defend themselves when being attacked.
Then you've apparently tried really hard. Just in this thread there are craploads of videos about it.I went to youtube and I could not find one video of any lynching mob on board that boat.
Israel has got nothing to hide, justice is with it.If that is on what Israel are basing firing on the passangers, there will need to be proof that Israel did not fire before she got on board and that people were trying to lynch soldiers. 100 people according to you.
Way more than one.and yet not one on youtube.
Not at all, backed up with evidence it is.Fantasy and judging something before any facts are known. Fair enquiry. rofl
Israel however was condemned before any facts were known.
In other words, you don't want to hear that which counters your rejection of reality.If your replies here are indicative of the kind of enquiry Israel is likely to do, may as well keep it to yourself. I will read the Beano.
They responded to lethal force with lethal force, the response was necessary, appropriate, and proportional.
Go try and beat a cop to death with a metal club and I'll see you in the ****ing obituaries.
lol we have the photographs of the captured knives, they had dozens of them, along with metal and wood pipes, gas masks, and power saws.
OMFG now the debate is on whether or not they were metal? RU saying that you can't beat someone to death with a wood rod?
nyways in this video of the recovered weapons it is clear that they had metal and wood clubs:
These were not activists they were jihadists, this boat was bought and operated by the jihadist IHH and several of the "activists" are on record stating their wish to become shahid, and they are on video invoking battle cries against the Jews. They attempted to murder Israeli cargo inspectors conducting a legitimate weapons inspection on a ship whose explicit intent was running the Israeli blockade.
Why?
Refer to international law and try and make a point instead of mumbo jumboing.
Not at all, it has no history of misleadings.
Israel has failed in hiding its nuclear weapons but I fail in seeing how is this an analogy.
So they are credible, even though they were found to be lying when they said at first that soldiers weren't attacked, and yet the IDF is not credible.
You're the only one talking about anti-Semitism here buddy, which only acts to show you're rejecting the truth.
Those sticks are called crowbars, and in two of the videos you can see knives and molotovs.
Nevertheless soldiers were wounded by gunshots.
It didn't come out of the blue, they knew exactly what's waiting for them(the boarding of the ship) and they were warned twice to stop the ship and refused to comply.
If you were trying to murder and lynch IDF commandos you'd suffer from the same faith. The soldiers have every right to defend themselves.
I will continue any discussion about the legality of the move in this threadI know this has been pointed out to you several times, but I'll say it again. Nobody is claiming that the activists brought guns with them. The claim which has been repeated over and over is that some of the activists took the soldiers guns and fired them. This is not in any way inconsistent with what I've been saying, nor is it a change from what they were claiming several days ago. Saying that "the IDF is now claiming that they were fired on" as if its a change from a prior statement is disingenuous.
I explained why that convention is inapplicable to this situation here: http://www.debatepolitics.com/news-...ons-onboard-relief-convoy.html#post1058783893
You never responded, and instead just repeated your claim later on.
And a threat to sovereignty warranting a response can only exist when an ex post inspection turns up actual physical weapons? Interesting theory.
No, no it's not. Again, I'm asking you for the actual legal language that makes this illegal. The reason why I'm doing that is because you and others have repeatedly thrown out copy/pasted arguments that speak in generalities, pretending that that proves your argument. When you actually get around to posting the language that you think proves your case, I and others have explained why you're wrong. Copy/pasting other people's broad arguments doesn't refute that.
They responded to force with lethal force, i think you meant to say.
Wooden actually.
Look buddy, if an American cop jumped on my arse on the canadian border, i probably would.
OK and you can say with certainty these where put on board with the intent of killing IDF soldiers? Because they where not even used during the illegal raid.
Im just saying, it's another list of over exaggerated elements. A wooden stick isn't going to do much with men in protective clothing. The IDF are too trigger happy, that's the problem.
A
Still no proof they where used.
As ive said, ive got more knives in my kitchen than an aid flotilla carrying a few hundred. Whats the problem here? I suppose if the IDF had found a toilet brush that would have been added to the list of items of attempted weaponary.
B-ollocks.
I guess knives don't count?