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Field trip for black students sparks controversy at Ann Arbor elementary school

digsbe said:
I think this thread tried to put a spin on what really happened. It seems that they had good intentions behind this trip. It was to inspire black children by having them meet a black rocket scientist. Honestly, I think this trip was a good thing. I don't believe the school was racially motivated in only having black kids attend the field trip. They had good intentions, but they acted stupidly by excluding everyone but black students. It was a racist action, but not necessarily motivated by racism. I do think that blacks are discouraged from joining careers in science. The media and stereotypes dictate that there are no black scientists and that blacks can't be smart. I'm all for this type of field trip, because I do believe blacks are discouraged from fields in science and that it's great to show them African Americans who are geniuses and have jobs in the scientific realm.
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I'm all for these kinds of field trips too. Just don't exclude people based on the color of their skin.
 
Perhaps closing a "groups" achievment gap should begin at home, and not be "solved" by public coffers and government school systems.
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The benefit of school systems is that they produce educated citizens, in spite of "the home" if they have to. If children aren't educated, then the school system didn't perform its function right.

They can give special help to struggling kids, and have special programs for the brighter ones, but that should never be based on race or ethnicity.
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Racial backgrounds can cause educational problems, but these can't be addressed as problems of race.
 
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Morality Games said:
The benefit of school systems is that they produce educated citizens, in spite of "the home" if they have to. If children aren't educated, then the school system didn't perform its function right.



Racial backgrounds can cause educational problems, but these can't be addressed as problems of race.
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"in spite of the home" ?? A very pollyannish view....seemingly based on blind trust in a bureaucratic agencies competency to solve societal ills through its version of "education".... and far removed from reality, IMO.
 
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Cole said:
My initial take on the story was the same as yours. ("What could that principle have been THINKING???!!")

But after reading the full article the story took a bit different flavor. Not saying that the field trip wasn't handled clumsily. It was. But the goal of the trip was apparently not to give the black students an academic bump to catch up with the white students. There is no indication that the participants were given a "science lecture" or any such presentation. Appears the trip was to take a bunch of black kids to meet a black rocket scientist to try and stress setting high limits for themselves (as black kids)

Again. Poorly handled. But not quite as racist/diabolical as it seems to be getting conveyed.....
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I agree with you here. The Principle is a racist, whether he knows it or not but I believe it was stupidity not malicious or racist intent.

digsbe said:
I think this thread tried to put a spin on what really happened. It seems that they had good intentions behind this trip. It was to inspire black children by having them meet a black rocket scientist. Honestly, I think this trip was a good thing. I don't believe the school was racially motivated in only having black kids attend the field trip. They had good intentions, but they acted stupidly by excluding everyone but black students. It was a racist action, but not necessarily motivated by racism. I do think that blacks are discouraged from joining careers in science. The media and stereotypes dictate that there are no black scientists and that blacks can't be smart. I'm all for this type of field trip, because I do believe blacks are discouraged from fields in science and that it's great to show them African Americans who are geniuses and have jobs in the scientific realm.
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The correct way to handle it would be to take all the kids, because seeing a Black "rocket scientist" is good for kids of all races.

webrockk said:
Nah...it's never a big deal for lefties... unless white kids and white teachers were to exclude black kids or little girls from participating on a field trip.
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Generalize much? I won't bother asking for proof that all lefties...

webrockk said:
"in spite of the home" ?? A very pollyannish view....seemingly based on blind trust in a bureaucratic agencies competency to solve societal ills through its version of "education".... and far removed from reality, IMO.
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Our education system seemed to be doing a fine job, pre-1980s.
 
webrockk said:
"in spite of the home" ?? A very pollyannish view....seemingly based on blind trust in a bureaucratic agencies competency to solve societal ills through its version of "education".... and far removed from reality, IMO.
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If domestic troubles are preventing students from learning effectively, the schools have to minimize that negative influence as they would any other; poor performance impacts school official salaries and funding decisions, so it is against their material interest not to do so.
 
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webrockk said:
Nah...it's never a big deal for lefties... unless white kids and white teachers were to exclude black kids or little girls from participating on a field trip.
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It never fails that when some one explains what some one with a different belief set thinks, they are never right.
 
I think, what would be very helpful, is for underprivileged kids, and average and above privileged ones, to hear the story of a person who came from a deprived background and became a rocket scientist.

Most likely, my guess, is that the rocket scientist in question did not come from the underclass.
 
Redress said:
It never fails that when some one explains what some one with a different belief set thinks, they are never right.
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When one approaches issues with logic and a dash of cynicism, instead of shrill emotion and political agenda, information can be more easily, and usefully defined...
 
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webrockk said:
When one approaches issues with logic and a dash of cynicism, instead of shrill emotion and political agenda, information can be more easily, and usefully defined...
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Which has exactly what to do with what I said?
 
Cole said:
My initial take on the story was the same as yours. ("What could that principle have been THINKING???!!")

But after reading the full article the story took a bit different flavor. Not saying that the field trip wasn't handled clumsily. It was. But the goal of the trip was apparently not to give the black students an academic bump to catch up with the white students. There is no indication that the participants were given a "science lecture" or any such presentation. Appears the trip was to take a bunch of black kids to meet a black rocket scientist to try and stress setting high limits for themselves (as black kids)

Again. Poorly handled. But not quite as racist/diabolical as it seems to be getting conveyed.....
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This was my take as well. Imagine that it hadn't been a rocket scientist but had been a successful black activist - this would have stirred much less controversy.

What I did find problematic was the principal's response to the other student's disappointment. It sounds like he went way over the top in yelling at the student.
 
Cole said:
My initial take on the story was the same as yours. ("What could that principle have been THINKING???!!")

But after reading the full article the story took a bit different flavor. Not saying that the field trip wasn't handled clumsily. It was. But the goal of the trip was apparently not to give the black students an academic bump to catch up with the white students. There is no indication that the participants were given a "science lecture" or any such presentation. Appears the trip was to take a bunch of black kids to meet a black rocket scientist to try and stress setting high limits for themselves (as black kids)

Again. Poorly handled. But not quite as racist/diabolical as it seems to be getting conveyed.....
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It was purely racist.

If it wasn't, it would have been about children setting high limits for themselves, not a special presentation to tell children of one ethnic background to do so.

Funny...I though that racial segregation in schooling was illegal.
 
Redress said:
I don't think they did that either. There is no reason to overstate the case. Was poor judgment used? Yes. Was it a big deal? Nah.
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Yeah, you could say the same about segregating schools.

Was it poor judgment? Yes.
Was it a big deal? Nah.

After all, dem po' darkies would be uncuftable wit all dem white chil'en. It's fo' der ben'fit.
 
MrFungus420 said:
Yeah, you could say the same about segregating schools.

Was it poor judgment? Yes.
Was it a big deal? Nah.

After all, dem po' darkies would be uncuftable wit all dem white chil'en. It's fo' der ben'fit.
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Well, no, actually you couldn't. There is a difference between something systematic and a one time deal. It was a mistake, but not a long lasting one.
 
MyOwnDrum said:
It sounds like discrimination to me. The principal of the school is Black, and of course defends this.

How much longer do Blacks get to get special status to make up for past racism? I feel like things like this only fuel racial animosities and tensions. If people want to provide special experiences for certain segments of the population, it should be done through private organizations.

Field trip for black students sparks controversy at Ann Arbor elementary school - AnnArbor.com
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Ahh so Blacks DO support segregation.
 
webrockk said:
Morality Games said:
The benefit of school systems is that they produce educated citizens, in spite of "the home" if they have to. If children aren't educated, then the school system didn't perform its function right.

Racial backgrounds can cause educational problems, but these can't be addressed as problems of race.
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"in spite of the home" ?? A very pollyannish view....seemingly based on blind trust in a bureaucratic agencies competency to solve societal ills through its version of "education".... and far removed from reality, IMO.
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No..."in spite of "the home" if they have to".

It is saying that the job of schools is to educate. It's not saying that the role of schools is to solve societal ills (although I would argue that providing a decent education to all children would tend to reduce societal ills).
 
Redress said:
Well, no, actually you couldn't. There is a difference between something systematic and a one time deal. It was a mistake, but not a long lasting one.
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Yes you can.

Segregation was supposedly (at least in part) for the benefit of the black children.

Just like this trip. Racism in the guise of helping those poor black children.
 
MyOwnDrum said:
I agree. The whole thing should have been handled nonchalantly, without fanfare, with the whole class going to see this cool rocket scientist. I'm sure everyone would have noticed his race without them pointing it out to them. Instead they treated the kids like a bunch of disadvantaged cripples going to see another cripple who actually made something of himself :rolleyes:
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Exactly. I mean, ALL these kids would probably have been pleased to meet a real rocket scientist, whatever their color or his color.

I don't think this is how MLK meant things to be: by his speeches I took it that he desired a society that did not concern itself with race.
 
MyOwnDrum said:
Some Blacks...
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I'm from the school of thought where people generally self-segregate along master-status lines. Race gravitates towards the same race, in many situations sex with sex, and similar. Birds of a feather fly together, as it were.

I don't believe Blacks really wanted to get access into White schools for the sake of going to White schools and mixing everything up for Equality™ . I think Blacks just wanted better schools and going to White schools was the only way to make that happen. I think if Blacks actually had Black schools which truly were just as good as White schools, that everyone would generally proffer to be around similar races as their own.

Please don't misunderstand, I'm all for desegregation, but I find it ironic that a race who struggled so hard for Equality™ so quickly abandons their principals when it benefits them.

I'm comfortable with a good level of self-segregation. I just wish folks were free to be honest about it. If a Black family is more comfortable sending their children to an academically equal school which has a high Black population, I don't see a problem there. I don't think there should be laws preventing that.
 
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Jerry said:
I'm from the school of thought where people generally self-segregate along master-status lines. Race gravitates towards the same race, in many situations sex with sex, and similar. Birds of a feather fly together, as it were.

I don't believe Blacks really wanted to get access into White schools for the sake of going to White schools and mixing everything up for Equality™ . I think Blacks just wanted better schools and going to White schools was the only way to make that happen. I think if Blacks actually had Black schools which truly were just as good as White schools, that everyone would generally proffer to be around similar races as their own.

Please don't misunderstand, I'm all for desegregation, but I find it ironic that a race who struggled so hard for Equality™ so quickly abandons their principals when it benefits them.

I'm comfortable with a good level of self-segregation. I just wish folks were free to be honest about it. If a Black family is more comfortable sending their children to an academically equal school which has a high Black population, I don't see a problem there. I don't think there should be laws preventing that.
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Thank God the days of forced busing are behind us. :doh
 
NoJingoLingo said:
I agree with you here. The Principle is a racist, whether he knows it or not but I believe it was stupidity not malicious or racist intent.
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So wait, if its a white dood it would be malicious and of racist intent, as in your false claims about the tea party, but because the dood is black, it was not malicious and racist?


:confused:
 
MyOwnDrum said:
It sounds like discrimination to me. The principal of the school is Black, and of course defends this.

How much longer do Blacks get to get special status to make up for past racism? I feel like things like this only fuel racial animosities and tensions. If people want to provide special experiences for certain segments of the population, it should be done through private organizations.

Field trip for black students sparks controversy at Ann Arbor elementary school - AnnArbor.com
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I dont see the problem nor do I think this is outrageous. If I really think about it. If this was a thought out action it clearly teaches kids about race and what causes hatred between them. It is really an ingenious way of teaching. Even though I dont think it was thought out that way.

Its very interesting how kids got mad because only one group gets an advantage because of situation or privelige. They couldnt enjoy the story the had to show hatred because they felt they deserved it too because they were in the same class (U.S) and how parents then got real emotional. All the while ruining the experience for black kids who did nothing wrong but accept the gift. Now they feel they did something wrong. Being born into money and being born into welfare are just examples of things that cause the divide but the two can never truly understand the other so the divide is created. Its very interesting. This is exactly factual life being explained to these children in terms they can understand without calling names or boring words they cant understand. They feel this to understand and can be taught afterwards from that feeling what is right.

I think it is a smart idea if that was the lesson plan. Why is everyone so mad because black kids got to do something and vice versa? It was not wrong to take a portion of the class but the excuse probably would have been the black kids had very little chance of dreaming but grades should have determined who exactly should get benefit from the trip.
 
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