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Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

So...you are suggesting that we do the GWB and lower ourselves to the standards and morals to become like those we disagree with?

I think it's the supporters of illegal aliens that are doing that.

As I said before in my post. Some folks want to disregard our laws just like the folks do in Mexico.

I love Mexico. It's a nice place to visit but I wouldn't wanna live there. And I don't really want to see the US becoming like the lawless Mexico. Especially not for the sake of touchy-feely political correctness.
 
I think it's the supporters of illegal aliens that are doing that.

As I said before in my post. Some folks want to disregard our laws just like the folks do in Mexico.

I love Mexico. It's a nice place to visit but I wouldn't wanna live there. And I don't really want to see the US becoming like the lawless Mexico. Especially not for the sake of touchy-feely political correctness.

All for upholding the law. Not so much for citizens having to carry around "papers."
 
I'm totally in favor of having police verify the legal residence status of everyone they stop, without exception, similar to airport security checking everyone for weapons.

I'm opposed to randomly stopping people who look Mexican. That would really infuriate me if I looked that way.

There seems to be some confusion as to the extent of this law in allowing that. Another concern I would have is that illegals would be afraid to enlist the services of law enforcement because their papers would be, then, checked. I'm thinking of spousal abuse, child abuse, etc. No one will want to call the cops and that might leave the weak undefended.
 
I'm totally in favor of having police verify the legal residence status of everyone they stop, without exception, similar to airport security checking everyone for weapons.

I'm opposed to randomly stopping people who look Mexican. That would really infuriate me if I looked that way.

There seems to be some confusion as to the extent of this law in allowing that. Another concern I would have is that illegals would be afraid to enlist the services of law enforcement because their papers would be, then, checked. I'm thinking of spousal abuse, child abuse, etc. No one will want to call the cops and that might leave the weak undefended.

You realize that if they did what you suggested, practically every person pulled over for speeding would be hauled down to the station because almost nobody carries their passport around just for kicks.
 
If I were Mexican and a citizen I would have no problem in carrying my papers around with me if it helps to solve the problem of illegal aliens.......
 
If I were Mexican and a citizen I would have no problem in carrying my papers around with me if it helps to solve the problem of illegal aliens.......
But you aren't, so your opinion of what a naturalized citizen would do is basically a steaming pile of bull****.
 
I'm totally in favor of having police verify the legal residence status of everyone they stop, without exception, similar to airport security checking everyone for weapons.

I'm opposed to randomly stopping people who look Mexican. That would really infuriate me if I looked that way.

There seems to be some confusion as to the extent of this law in allowing that. Another concern I would have is that illegals would be afraid to enlist the services of law enforcement because their papers would be, then, checked. I'm thinking of spousal abuse, child abuse, etc. No one will want to call the cops and that might leave the weak undefended.

I'm not a big fan of the whole "papers" things. Too Nazi Germany for my tastes.
 
I'm not a big fan of the whole "papers" things. Too Nazi Germany for my tastes.
It also tends to shift the presumption from the government (where it should be) to the individual. I shouldn't have to prove I'm a citizen simply on the whim of a cop on a fishing trip.
 
It also tends to shift the presumption from the government (where it should be) to the individual. I shouldn't have to prove I'm a citizen simply on the whim of a cop on a fishing trip.

Yup yup. It's always the government's job to prove guilt. I have the right to secure myself, my papers, my effects, and my property against unreasonable search and seizure. If the cops want me to prove my citizenship, they can go get a warrant for that information.
 
Yup yup. It's always the government's job to prove guilt. I have the right to secure myself, my papers, my effects, and my property against unreasonable search and seizure. If the cops want me to prove my citizenship, they can go get a warrant for that information.

I think identity papers should be an exception to that.
 
I think identity papers should be an exception to that.
Why? Why does the government need to know who I am without probable cause to believe I committed some crime?
 
Why? Why does the government need to know who I am without probable cause to believe I committed some crime?

To see if you are a citizen or legal alien.
 
Don't the police need probable cause to stop folks? Is just being hispanic probable cause? Why does the GOP like to trample on the constitution?
They don't seem to care about ilegals either. They had six years to do something and totally ignored the problem.

No, being hispanic looking isn't probable cause. Which is why it's a non-issue.
 
To see if you are a citizen or legal alien.
You're going to have to amend the Constitution or find an activist Supreme Court for that one.
 
But it WILL be.

Tell me, how do you LOOK illegal?

By being not white.

But if I were a cop, I'd go around busting on the white people. "Hey there....you seem French to me; let's see those papers! Hey...over there, you from Russia? Papers. Hey guy with the "chips", you strike me as British...papers!"

See how long the law lasts.
 
But it WILL be.

Tell me, how do you LOOK illegal?

How does anyone look like they're doing something illegal? There are behaviors that people commonly exhibit when they're committing a crime and/or trying to hide the fact that they have. How do you think probable cause is ever applied? We've had probable cause caveats forever in our laws, why all the uproar now?
 
How does anyone look like they're doing something illegal?
I dont know, why dont you tell us? As someone who exudes such authority and knowledge on the matter.

There are behaviors that people commonly exhibit when they're committing a crime and/or trying to hide the fact that they have.
Such as?

How do you think probable cause is ever applied?
Well let's look it up.

Probable cause is where known facts and circumstances, of a reasonably trustworthy nature, are sufficient to justify a man of reasonable caution or prudence in the belief that a crime has been or is being committed. (reasonable man definition; common textbook definition; comes from Draper v. U.S. 1959)

Probable cause is what would lead a person of reasonable caution to believe that something connected with a crime is on the premises of a person or on persons themselves. (sometimes called the nexus definition; nexus is the connection between PC, the person's participation, and elements of criminal activity; determining nexus is the job of a judicial official, and it's almost always required in cases of search warrants, not arrest warrants)

Probable cause is the sum total of layers of information and synthesis of what police have heard, know, or observe as trained officers. (comes from Smith v. U.S. 1949 establishing the experienced police officer standard)

Mmmm...I dont see anything about "looking illegal." And you still need to explain how someone LOOKS illegal.

Also, look up how often a police officer claiming suspicious behavior works in court.

We've had probable cause caveats forever in our laws, why all the uproar now?
Because they've never had the very strong possibility of being applied solely based on racial characteristics.
 
Mmmm...I dont see anything about "looking illegal." And you still need to explain how someone LOOKS illegal.
No, I do not. Since I'm not the one claiming such nonsense. What you need to do is find in the law where it states explicitly that someone can be detained for "looking illegal".

Because they've never had the very strong possibility of being applied solely based on racial characteristics.

They have ALWAYS had the possibility of being applied soley on race. ALWAYS. And if it is applied incorrectly on occasion then the courts will take care of it, just like they do now.

So where is the issue again? And how is it any different than before?
 
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But it WILL be.

Tell me, how do you LOOK illegal?

even though it's in the law and in the executive order that it won't?

ya'll are reaching.
 
No, I do not. Since I'm not the one claiming such nonsense. What you need to do is find in the law where it states explicitly that someone can be detained for "looking illegal".
People favor a statute whereby police can stop and ask people for verification of their legal status. Now how do officers determine who to stop. You answered that there were certain "things" people do when they're doing something illegal. I want to know what these "things" are.

They have ALWAYS had the possibility of being applied soley on race. ALWAYS. And if it is applied incorrectly on occasion then the courts will take care of it, just like they do now.
Is that why most of our prison population is black and Latino?

So where is the issue again? And how is it any different than before?
I'm uncomfortable giving law enforcement a valid reason to hassle people because of their skin color.

even though it's in the law and in the executive order that it won't?

ya'll are reaching.
Are you aware of the difference between de jure and de facto? The law says one thing but in actual practice is carried out annother way. The same with the letter and the spirit of the law; law enforcement will be following the spirit of the law but not the letter.
 
People favor a statute whereby police can stop and ask people for verification of their legal status. Now how do officers determine who to stop. You answered that there were certain "things" people do when they're doing something illegal. I want to know what these "things" are.
Why don't you ask a cop how they determine probable cause for anything. They are trained for such things.

Is that why most of our prison population is black and Latino?
Our prisons are full of people who committed crimes and got caught. Are you implying they shouldn't have been caught? :confused:

I'm uncomfortable giving law enforcement a valid reason to hassle people because of their skin color.
Then don't. This law surely doesn't.

Are you aware of the difference between de jure and de facto? The law says one thing but in actual practice is carried out annother way. The same with the letter and the spirit of the law; law enforcement will be following the spirit of the law but not the letter.
And the courts will correct any misapplications of probable cause, just like they do now.
 
Are you aware of the difference between de jure and de facto? The law says one thing but in actual practice is carried out annother way. The same with the letter and the spirit of the law; law enforcement will be following the spirit of the law but not the letter.

oh. well, that's logical.

i hereby announce that All Americans should oppose Obamacare, for the reason that enforcement of the provision requiring all Americans to purchase health insurance will involve the IRS coming to your home and gunning your family down. :roll:
 
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