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Financial Reform Talks Near Collapse, Some GOPers Threaten To Defect

What Tax revenue are you referring to, income, corporate... Provide the proof that tax revenue doubled the year following the cuts and show that this doubling was sustained year to year thereafter.

Unless you'd like to make some excuse not to provide that evidence.

BEA.gov will give you the information. Tax revenues doubled during the Reagan years and that is a fact. Explain to me how that happened when he cut tax rates 25% over three years

Total tax revenue, Income and corporate taxes. Do some research and stop making a fool of yourself. By the way, thanks for reporting me again. Love it when I can tick off a liberal.

Tax revenue Dec. 1980- 841.8
Tax Revenue Dec. 1988-1608.0

U.S. Department of Commerce. Bureau of Economic Analysis
 
Goldenboy, I have yet to see anyone answer this question:

What's the point in cutting taxes on businesses who are losing money because of the recession?

There's no profit to be taxed. How can you be hurting them when they are not legally obligated to pay?

If I cut taxes on someone who has a small business being reported on their schedule C who's losing money to the point they have no taxable income (this happens more often then you'd think), how does that help them?

Woooh! We cut your taxes! Too bad you didn't have anything to tax in the first place!

I suppose every business in the country is like that? All of them are losing money? No, some are still making money, and having less of that money taxed is very beneficial to them; sole proprietorships account for the majority of businesses in the US, and many of these small business owners would like to retain more of their profits, as they are used to pay for food, shelter, and clothing for their families, as well as maintaining their business. So, while it may not help businesses that are operating at a loss, tax cuts for businesses who have tight margins are extremely beneficial to them.

We should also cut the corporate tax rates, so they can retain more jobs during recessions.

But, of course, tax cuts don't work because individual people are just too damn stupid and helpless to spend their money efficiently and properly. No, we need big government to allocate resources and money...
 
Except that the US still is the largest manufacturing country in the world by leaps and bounds. Technology is pretty much killing manufacturing jobs. Replacing a thousand line workers with 5 guys running automated systems.

Finally something I can agree with!!!

Automation will continue to replace jobs that are performed manually whenever possible; this trend could be slowed by decreasing the operating costs of businesses, but I doubt the unions and government have any interest in doing that.

Americans must adapt to the evolving job market by acquiring skills in finance and information technology; they must also place an increased emphasis on competing globally, instead of fighting and resisting it with populism and protectionism; if they choose the latter strategy, they will be undercut by foreign labor and development. I think we must also prepare for a decrease - albeit a moderate one - in our standard of living over the coming decades.
 
What Tax revenue are you referring to, income, corporate... Provide the proof that tax revenue doubled the year following the cuts and show that this doubling was sustained year to year thereafter.

Unless you'd like to make some excuse not to provide that evidence.

Having problems with my response, NoJingoLingo? Facts always get in your way, don't they? Maybe you ought to stop letting an ideology make a fool out of you.
 
BEA.gov will give you the information. Tax revenues doubled during the Reagan years and that is a fact. Explain to me how that happened when he cut tax rates 25% over three years

Total tax revenue, Income and corporate taxes. Do some research and stop making a fool of yourself. By the way, thanks for reporting me again. Love it when I can tick off a liberal.

Tax revenue Dec. 1980- 841.8
Tax Revenue Dec. 1988-1608.0

U.S. Department of Commerce. Bureau of Economic Analysis

In other words, you don't want to provide the evidence for your assertions but instead you want to simply throw out some out of context number. That's probably because you know you can't provide that evidence.

Hannity falsely claimed Reagan tax cuts "doubled revenues ... from $500 billion to over $1 trillion" | Media Matters for America
 
In other words, you don't want to provide the evidence for your assertions but instead you want to simply throw out some out of context number. That's probably because you know you can't provide that evidence.

Hannity falsely claimed Reagan tax cuts "doubled revenues ... from $500 billion to over $1 trillion" | Media Matters for America

:rofl, now that is funny, I posted Bureau of Economic Analysis numbers and you say they are wrong? Where did those numbers come from? I provided the evidence, and you have provided nothing to refute them. Media Matters isn't reliable and is a George Soros funded hate organization. BEA is non partisan and captures data from the U.S. Treasury. You, sir, are misguided.

By the way, there is nothing in that link that refutes what I posted but instead tries to adjust for inflation. The numbers posted are real and come from a non partisan organization. This just goes to show how partisan and out of touch with reality you really are.
 
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:rofl, now that is funny, I posted Bureau of Economic Analysis numbers and you say they are wrong? Where did those numbers come from? I provided the evidence, and you have provided nothing to refute them. Media Matters isn't reliable and is a George Soros funded hate organization. BEA is non partisan and captures data from the U.S. Treasury. You, sir, are misguided.

By the way, there is nothing in that link that refutes what I posted but instead tries to adjust for inflation. The numbers posted are real and come from a non partisan organization. This just goes to show how partisan and out of touch with reality you really are.

The numbers by themselves don't mean ****. Did the economy pick up? Wouldn't that increase revenues? Did more businesses open their doors? Wouldn't that increase revenue? Were revenues artificially low when Reagan took office? Again, you never answered my questions, you simply posted a link to a site which is not the same thing. Obviously you'd prefer not to answer them. Good enough, as long as we are all clear on your tactic.
 
The numbers by themselves don't mean ****. Did the economy pick up? Wouldn't that increase revenues? Did more businesses open their doors? Wouldn't that increase revenue? Were revenues artificially low when Reagan took office? Again, you never answered my questions, you simply posted a link to a site which is not the same thing. Obviously you'd prefer not to answer them. Good enough, as long as we are all clear on your tactic.

Why don't you ask Media Matters because the BEA and BLS don't matter to you. You prefer partisan sites that create data instead of non partisan sites that report data.

Your site provided data adjusted for inflation which in itself is distorted as there inflation was reduced by the Reagan policies. What were the interest rates under Carter? How about the inflation rates under Carter? Stop being a tool

You ask if business picked up? Brilliant analysis, yes business picked up, almost 20 million jobs were created and those people paid taxes, all due to the Reagan tax cuts.

When Reagan took office the economy was a mess and his tax cuts led to the largest election landslide in U.S. history in 1984. I lived and worked during those times. Too bad you rely on Media Matters for your information. They are making you look foolish.
 
Why don't you ask Media Matters because the BEA and BLS don't matter to you. You prefer partisan sites that create data instead of non partisan sites that report data.

Your site provided data adjusted for inflation which in itself is distorted as there inflation was reduced by the Reagan policies. What were the interest rates under Carter? How about the inflation rates under Carter? Stop being a tool

You ask if business picked up? Brilliant analysis, yes business picked up, almost 20 million jobs were created and those people paid taxes, all due to the Reagan tax cuts.

When Reagan took office the economy was a mess and his tax cuts led to the largest election landslide in U.S. history in 1984. I lived and worked during those times. Too bad you rely on Media Matters for your information. They are making you look foolish.
Why don't you just answer the questions instead of trying to argue your way out of answering them?
 
Why don't you just answer the questions instead of trying to argue your way out of answering them?

Are you reading challenged, I answered your questions. The link you posted adjusts the numbers for inflation. What inflation? Where did the inflation number come from? What were the interest rates when Reagan took office and what were they when Reagan took office?

You are so quick to buy Media Matters information?

You asked a question if business grew during Reagan and I answered. What other question do you want me to answer?

I gave you actual numbers which you countered with a manufactured inflation number. Keep digging that hole deeper.
 
Hahahaha!!!

Media Matters!? Seriously!?

He expects people to take him seriously when he offers Media Matters as a source. What a joke! Is there any wonder this country is in a mess when you have such partisans that ignore actual numbers presented by non partisan sources?
 
Well, we can only hope the Republican leadership hurries up and gets out of the way.

Who's we? You got a frog in your pocket or something?
 
Why don't you just answer the questions instead of trying to argue your way out of answering them?

Keep running NoJingoLingo from the posts that counter your claims. Media Matters loves having people like you for you are the kind of person that they prey on.
 
Why don't you ask Media Matters because the BEA and BLS don't matter to you. You prefer partisan sites that create data instead of non partisan sites that report data.

Your site provided data adjusted for inflation which in itself is distorted as there inflation was reduced by the Reagan policies. What were the interest rates under Carter? How about the inflation rates under Carter? Stop being a tool

You ask if business picked up? Brilliant analysis, yes business picked up, almost 20 million jobs were created and those people paid taxes, all due to the Reagan tax cuts.

When Reagan took office the economy was a mess and his tax cuts led to the largest election landslide in U.S. history in 1984. I lived and worked during those times. Too bad you rely on Media Matters for your information. They are making you look foolish.

Are you reading challenged, I answered your questions. The link you posted adjusts the numbers for inflation. What inflation? Where did the inflation number come from? What were the interest rates when Reagan took office and what were they when Reagan took office?

You are so quick to buy Media Matters information?

You asked a question if business grew during Reagan and I answered. What other question do you want me to answer?

I gave you actual numbers which you countered with a manufactured inflation number. Keep digging that hole deeper.

Hahahaha!!!

Media Matters!? Seriously!?

He expects people to take him seriously when he offers Media Matters as a source. What a joke! Is there any wonder this country is in a mess when you have such partisans that ignore actual numbers presented by non partisan sources?

Keep running NoJingoLingo from the posts that counter your claims. Media Matters loves having people like you for you are the kind of person that they prey on.
I posted the link to Media Matters merely to show that there is more to the MEANING of the raw numbers you posted than simply posting them. If I told you that last year I put 1 million dollars in my personal bank account, someone might think I made a lot of money. Of course it could also be that I got a big inheritance or won a lottery... but allow me to quote some cons around here, "prove the information from the source is wrong instead of discounting it because you don't like the source". :2wave:

Bottom line, since you are afraid to talk about the numbers in context, is that you're wrong about tax cuts being the reason for the increase in revenue.

Reagan and revenue

Ah – commenter Tom says, in response to my post on taxes and revenues:

Taxes were cut at the beginning of the Reagan administration.

Federal tax receipts increased by 50% by the end of the Reagan Administration.

Although correlation does not prove causation the tax cut must have accounted for some portion of this increase in federal tax receipts.


I couldn’t have asked for a better example of why it’s important to correct for inflation and population growth, both of which tend to make revenues grow regardless of tax policy.

Actually, federal revenues rose 80 percent in dollar terms from 1980 to 1988. And numbers like that (sometimes they play with the dates) are thrown around by Reagan hagiographers all the time.

But real revenues per capita grew only 19 percent over the same period — better than the likely Bush performance, but still nothing exciting. In fact, it’s less than revenue growth in the period 1972-1980 (24 percent) and much less than the amazing 41 percent gain from 1992 to 2000.

Is it really possible that all the triumphant declarations that the Reagan tax cuts led to a revenue boom — declarations that you see in highly respectable places — are based on nothing but a failure to make the most elementary corrections for inflation and population growth? Yes, it is. I know we’re supposed to pretend that we’re having a serious discussion in this country; but the truth is that we aren’t.

Update: For the econowonks out there: business cycles are an issue here — revenue growth from trough to peak will look better than the reverse. Unfortunately, business cycles don’t correspond to administrations. But looking at revenue changes peak to peak is still revealing. So here’s the annual rate of growth of real revenue per capita over some cycles:

1973-1979: 2.7%
1979-1990: 1.8%
1990-2000: 3.2%
2000-2007 (probable peak): approximately zero

Do you see the revenue booms from the Reagan and Bush tax cuts? Me neither.
Reagan and revenue - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com
Effect of the Reagan and Kennedy Tax Cuts

Tax cuts increase tax collections
 
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I suppose every business in the country is like that? All of them are losing money? No, some are still making money, and having less of that money taxed is very beneficial to them; sole proprietorships account for the majority of businesses in the US, and many of these small business owners would like to retain more of their profits, as they are used to pay for food, shelter, and clothing for their families, as well as maintaining their business. So, while it may not help businesses that are operating at a loss, tax cuts for businesses who have tight margins are extremely beneficial to them.

We should also cut the corporate tax rates, so they can retain more jobs during recessions.

But, of course, tax cuts don't work because individual people are just too damn stupid and helpless to spend their money efficiently and properly. No, we need big government to allocate resources and money...

Yeah, right....cutting the corporate tax rate will save jobs during recessions.
The tooth fairy and easter bunny are giggling over that one....

Missing from the arguments of some is what happened to national debt while Reagan was president. It is easy to tax less and spend more if you are borrowing from your grandchildren...
 
I posted the link to Media Matters merely to show that there is more to the MEANING of the raw numbers you posted than simply posting them. If I told you that last year I put 1 million dollars in my personal bank account, someone might think I made a lot of money. Of course it could also be that I got a big inheritance or won a lottery... but allow me to quote some cons around here, "prove the information from the source is wrong instead of discounting it because you don't like the source". :2wave:

Bottom line, since you are afraid to talk about the numbers in context, is that you're wrong about tax cuts being the reason for the increase in revenue.


Effect of the Reagan and Kennedy Tax Cuts

Tax cuts increase tax collections

Very interesting that you include 1979-1981 in your analysis since the tax cuts weren't into affect and the country was going into recession. Another recession occurred in 1990. Way to go!

Explain to us how tax revenue doubled AFTER the tax cuts that went into effect in the fall of 1981? You are going to have to do better than you normally do. Business cycle? interesting how that wasn't considered when Obama signed his 800 billion dollar stimulus plan. There was no consideration to business cycle then, why?

Regardless of your biased, partisan opinion, you nor anyone else can explain why tax revenue doubled nor can you explain the inflation number during the Reagan years because there wasn't any or inflation was very low so you had to make up numbers.

Keep spouting what Media Maters tells you. Makes you just the kind of person they love to have. Apparently you have very little pride in yourself.
 
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Yeah, right....cutting the corporate tax rate will save jobs during recessions.
The tooth fairy and easter bunny are giggling over that one....

Missing from the arguments of some is what happened to national debt while Reagan was president. It is easy to tax less and spend more if you are borrowing from your grandchildren...

Cutting taxes, BOTH corporate and personal income taxes stimulates and grows the economy. Since no one else will explain it, how about you, how did tax revenue double during the Reagan years AFTER he cut personal and corporate taxes?
 
Very interesting that you include 1979-1981 in your analysis since the tax cuts weren't into affect and the country was going into recession. Another recession occurred in 1990. Way to go!

Explain to us how tax revenue doubled AFTER the tax cuts that went into effect in the fall of 1981? You are going to have to do better than you normally do. Business cycle? interesting how that wasn't considered when Obama signed his 800 billion dollar stimulus plan. There was no consideration to business cycle then, why?

Regardless of your biased, partisan opinion, you nor anyone else can explain why tax revenue doubled nor can you explain the inflation number during the Reagan years because there wasn't any or inflation was very low so you had to make up numbers.

Keep spouting what Media Maters tells you. Makes you just the kind of person they love to have. Apparently you have very little pride in yourself.
Explain how revenues increased before the tax cuts were made and also the year in which the cuts were made, before they went into effect.

I didn't post anything from Media Matters other than that one link, which you apparently neglected to dispute. I notice you didn't dispute anything in the other links nor in the commentary from an economist who has such awards as the John Bates Clark Medal (1991) and the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics (2008).

I wonder why? :lol:
 
Cutting taxes, BOTH corporate and personal income taxes stimulates and grows the economy. Since no one else will explain it, how about you, how did tax revenue double during the Reagan years AFTER he cut personal and corporate taxes?
I gave you the information on how your premise is flawed but you continue to ignore the facts in favor of your desired opinion.
 
Easy, spend less. The government wastes so much money and overpays for many projects. The government needs to make serous cuts and live within its means like any normal person. The government needs to shrink and drastically reduce spending in areas that it can.
whenever someone says 'easy, make serious cuts, shrink the government' i always ask, ok, how? what would you cut? by how much? and what programs that you support, are you willing to see cut to balance the budget?
 
Explain how revenues increased before the tax cuts were made and also the year in which the cuts were made, before they went into effect.

I didn't post anything from Media Matters other than that one link, which you apparently neglected to dispute. I notice you didn't dispute anything in the other links nor in the commentary from an economist who has such awards as the John Bates Clark Medal (1991) and the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics (2008).

I wonder why? :lol:


So tell me how the tax revenue doubled when Reagan cut taxes 25% across the board? That is contrary to everything a liberal spouts which isn't surprising.

The numbers posted show 79-80-81 prior to the tax cuts. Have you even looked at govt. revenue prior to the tax cuts which went into effect in 1982? Can you explain why Reagan won a landslide in 84, one of the biggest on record?

Stop spinning and get the facts.
 
Would you please explain to me how tax revenue to the U.S. Govt. doubled AFTER the Reagan Tax cuts? How much of the Reagan debt was created in 1981-82 prior to the affects of the tax cuts?

This tired old argument that you and others make ignores actual facts and history. You also all seem to not understand basic civics that defines who authorizes the spending. Obama claimed he inherited a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit. That is a lie. He inherited a 10.6 trillion dollar cumulative debt created by all Administrations and now has added over 2 trillion to it. Deficit is yearly, debt is cumulative. Fiscal year of the U.S. Govt. is October-September and Obama took office 4 months into fiscal year 2009. There was no 1.3 trillion deficit on January 20, 2009 but it sure makes for a great soundbyte that liberals love to support.

Barack Obama was in the Congress of the United States the last two years of the Bush Administration. What was his voting record on the spending bills during those last two years. In additiion Bush didn't propose the 842 billion stimulus plan nor did Bush spend all the TARP money leaving 350 billion to Obama, nor did Bush bailout GM/Chrysler, and Bush didn't increase the unemployment rate from 7.6% to 10%.

You can keep re-writing history but all that does is destroy what little credibility you have. Guess you don't care that much about being accurate or being credible.

We had this argument before, and you were intellectually outgunned, clinging motionless to your "tax revenue" statement without taking into consideration the context. Being as you do not fully understand how supply side economics functions, along with its limitations regarding policy, i am not the least bit shocked.

The 1980's began with serious bouts of inflation and stagnating growth. Cutting taxes (supply determinant) helped alleviate pricing pressures, combined with a military Keynesian spending approach helped foster growth.

But we are not in the 1980's, and the issue is deflation not inflation.

So do answer me one question: What are the pricing ramifications for heavy tax reductions? Being that you lack any serious insight into supply side economics, i expect your response to lack an answer to this question. You may now rant on.
 
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I just find it funny that Democrats are automatically deemed to be the "good guys" and Republicans are deemed the "bad guys" in this charade in great deal because of numbers. Just like if the roles were reversed and Republicans were in favor of legislature that is questionable at best in similar numbers and voting turnouts as now, Democrats would be the "party of no" and automatically assumed to be wrong and in the way of progress.

Well, unless you're illogical hyper-ideologues like disneydude or his right-wing counterpart. I don't quantify them.
 
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