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We are a Christian Nation....

Goshin said:
:mrgreen:

No.

I've known plenty of adult converts who were not raised in church.

I'll grant that a majority probably grew up in church, but not all by a long shot.

In any case, doesn't this continue to point to the fact that America has Christian roots, if so many Americans are brought up with Christian families.
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I never said all.

Do you know anyone who only believes in God 78%?
 
Redress said:
This is like the perfect example of how to build a strawman.

Hint: Goshin said nothing at all like that.
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I don't know about you, but just because I quote and reply to something doesn't mean I am directly attempting to have a formal debate them, but rather what they said prompted a thought, albeit deliberately exaggerated because I like to make fun of evangelicals. I don't give a **** whether it applies to the person I quoted or not, but it does relate to what they said.

Goshin said:
Heh. Dude, believe it or not, I'm hardly a prude

However, there's the question of where do we want that line to be, in regards to public decency.

Public as in "out in public, in plain view of everyone".

I mean, is having sex on the sidewalk in a public park during daylight hours just fine with you? No? What about people walking down the sidewalk at 3:00 in the afternoon with their genitalia swinging in the breeze? I'd rather not be subjected to that myself.
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I reject the notion of indecent exposure as a crime, but I do care about public health. There are no public health risks to a woman letting her boobs hang out if that's what she wants to do. When you get extra fecal spread due to being bottomless, it's a different story. But television is a different story altogether.

Join a nudist retreat, I won't come there and bother you. Wear as little as you like in your house. If your back yard has a tall privacy fence, do yo' thing on the grass, whatever. Not my problem.
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I don't personally like to be nude in public. Would I mind if women, whether attractive or not, went topless? Not at all.

But in public, especially if we're talking about normal-hours plain-old broadcast TV, is it so freaking terrible to have a few simple standards? Do we HAVE to be constantly awash in sexuality ALL the time, as if that were the sum total of life?
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All standards ought to be logical. I don't know if I'd say that the French are more awash with sexuality just because they're not squeamish about a boob.

Is it really so much to ask, to be able to sit and watch the Superbowl halftime with your child and not be subjected to Justin (bleh) Timberlake and Janet (blah) Jackson doing some kind of talent-less softcore porn musical? Complete with gold-studded nipple-popups? Hail it wasn't even good art.
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Art is a matter of perspective. I have no idea why you care if your kid sees a nipple or not. Chances are they have one themselves.
 
disneydude said:
Yes. I read that post. However....it doesn't make a very good argument for trying to say this is a "Christian Nation". The fact that many of the founding fathers were "Christian" is irrelevant. They were intelligent enough and had the wisom to make this a religious neutral country.
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You can worship whatever you like but the backbone of America is Christian! I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is. It's not the end of the world!
 
I'm constantly amazed at the people who still refuse to believe that the Founders were deeply religious. It's like they have either blocked out their speeches and writings from their memory, or they never learned them in the first place.
 
Mellie said:
I'm constantly amazed at the people who still refuse to believe that the Founders were deeply religious. It's like they have either blocked out their speeches and writings from their memory, or they never learned them in the first place.
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You know what amazes me? That anybody cares what the founders thought. Just because they were pioneers doesn't mean we ought to follow them forever.
 
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PonyBoy said:
Relax. Have you read this post?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news-blogs/69879-we-christian-nation-6.html#post1058668822
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Avalon Project - The Barbary Treaties 1786-1816 - Treaty of Peace and Friendship, Signed at Tripoli November 4, 1796

As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
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Some history behind this quote:

Official records show that after President John Adams sent the treaty to the Senate for ratification in May 1797, the entire treaty was read aloud on the Senate floor, and copies were printed for every Senator. A committee considered the treaty and recommended ratification, 23 of the 32 sitting Senators were present for the June 7 vote which unanimously approved the ratification recommendation.
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[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli]Treaty of Tripoli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
PonyBoy said:
You can worship whatever you like but the backbone of America is Christian! I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is. It's not the end of the world!
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That may be true. But it doesn't make this a "Christian nation". As a Christian myself, I find it rather arrogant and disrespectful to try to make tha claim.

Why is it that those who scream the loudest about being "Christian" are those that generally live the least "Christ-like" lives?
 
Mellie said:
I'm constantly amazed at the people who still refuse to believe that the Founders were deeply religious. It's like they have either blocked out their speeches and writings from their memory, or they never learned them in the first place.
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Yes...personally they were religious. That doesn't mean, however, that they were arrogant and felt the need to impose their beliefs on others. They had the wisdom and the foresight to make his a relgiously neutral country.
 
LiveUninhibited said:
You know what amazes me? That anybody cares what the founders thought. Just because they were pioneers doesn't mean we ought to follow them forever.
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Nice. What exactly do you believe they were wrong about?
 
disneydude said:
Yes...personally they were religious. That doesn't mean, however, that they were arrogant and felt the need to impose their beliefs on others. They had the wisdom and the foresight to make his a relgiously neutral country.
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Yet many states had state religions. Huh.
 
disneydude said:
That may be true. But it doesn't make this a "Christian nation". As a Christian myself, I find it rather arrogant and disrespectful to try to make tha claim.

Why is it that those who scream the loudest about being "Christian" are those that generally live the least "Christ-like" lives?
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I dunno, I'm not a Christian. Nor do i go to church.

But i do have enough sense to know that our founding fathers were Orthodox. The proof is in their speeches.
 
Mellie said:
I'm constantly amazed at the people who still refuse to believe that the Founders were deeply religious. It's like they have either blocked out their speeches and writings from their memory, or they never learned them in the first place.
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Yes...personally they were religious. That doesn't mean, however, that they were arrogant and felt the need to impose their beliefs on others. They had the wisdom and the foresight to make his a relgiously neutral country.
 
Mellie said:
Nice. What exactly do you believe they were wrong about?
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Slavery for one thing, but I'm sure there are plenty of others. While they may have been geniuses, they were subject to the limitations of their time.
 
PonyBoy said:
I dunno, I'm not a Christian. Nor do i go to church.

But i do have enough sense to know that our founding fathers were Orthodox. The proof is in their speeches.
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Yes...but that still doesn't make this a "Christian Country". Have you read the Constitution? If they wanted to make it a Christian Country. The First Amendment would read quite differently.
 
Off Topic: Hey disney, I created a whole thread about your signature in General Political Discussion. You should check it out if you haven't already.
 
LiveUninhibited said:
Slavery for one thing, but I'm sure there are plenty of others. While they may have been geniuses, they were subject to the limitations of their time.
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Most wanted to get rid of slavery, so I don't see how that's something they were wrong about. They just couldn't see how it could be done.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Slavery........
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Slavery was already around nearly two centuries before the founding fathers. I'm having a hard time taking the 'Christian deniers' serious.

Benjamin Franklin and Benjamin Rush founded America's first antislavery society.

Benjamin wrote..

“I would most ardently wish to become a member of it [the society in New York] and... I can safely promise them that neither my tongue, nor my pen, nor purse shall be wanting to promote the abolition of what to me appears so inconsistent with humanity and Christianity... May the great and the equal Father of the human race, who has expressly declared His abhorrence of oppression, and that He is no respecter of persons, succeed a design so laudably calculated to undo the heavy burdens, to let the oppressed go free, and to break every yoke.”
 
As a nation, in the [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation]technical term[/ame], one could say we are Christian. The population of America by a vast amount is Christian and share that common history, traditions, morals, etc.

However, I do not believe Navy is using nation in its technical term but in the mistaken use of referring to a State as a Nation (state being synonymous with "country" here). With that in mind, no we are definitely NOT a Christian country, in so much that our country is OFFICIALLY Christian. One COULD argue we are a country founded on Christian Principles, but its absolutely wrong to say we are a christian state, which is how he's using "nation" in this case, because it is not officially our religion.
 
Correct, Zyphlin. We aren't a theocracy like Iran. Our Founders just so happened to be deeply religious and it shaped their views of freedom, prosperity, etc.
 
disneydude said:
Yes...but that still doesn't make this a "Christian Country". Have you read the Constitution? If they wanted to make it a Christian Country. The First Amendment would read quite differently.
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Goddamn dude! If the founding fathers woulda been of the Jedi religion then our foundation woulda been built on Jedi. It doesn't mean you have to worship Jedi, you could worship Buddha if you wanted.
 
Mellie said:
Most wanted to get rid of slavery, so I don't see how that's something they were wrong about. They just couldn't see how it could be done.
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"It is now illegal to own and traffic human beings."

:roll:
 
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