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Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

Reverend_Hellh0und said:
My point is, war is not about fairness. It's about killing the enemy and destroyin thier stuff until thier will to fight is no more.


Are you suggesting we uise IED's and suicide bombers instead of spectres and apaches?


Its a rather obtuse suggestion if I must say.
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Ya... because the enemy was sooooo taken out in this situation. Reuters reporters, people that where never proven hostile, and people who help the wounded who have no weapons. The enemy. I wonder what we do with all the enemy bodies? And what about bodies of "collateral dammage"? Do civilians that end up in the path of fire get tossed with the terrorists bodies? (assuming we toss the bodies anyplace)
 
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Gray_Fox_86 said:
The Apache murder was bad, but this was/is worse. Its a report on a female that "committed suicide" and the US military covered it up. I guess the US military likes to coverup murder with either "collateral damage," or "suicide". Anyways their should be more outrage because the military covered this up and it gets little attention to the apache video.

YouTube- Sex in the Army - USA

The new youtube sucks, I can't stand it. That was off my post.
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Is this the incident where they glued gloves onto the girls hands to hide some creepy evidence?
 
Gray_Fox_86 said:
maybe....what you don't believe the girl was murdered?
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Oh I don't doubt it is a possibility. I hadn't watched your vid yet was just inquiring. Every once in a while you see claims of "This person wanted to get out of the war and magically ended up dead." And you can hear people spew crap like "Man if the guy next to me wouldn't shoot then id shoot him for disrupting our cohesion."
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
cowardly eh? So tell me warrior, when was the last time you wielded a loin cloth and a gladius to do battle like a man? :roll:
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That sounds fun if that what the enemy is wearing. I think we should have the leaders of lands duel before we go to war. If 2 nations really want to kick eachothers ass then wouldn't a 1 on 1 duel between the countries leaders save much, much more blood? Each side pick a champion. Air it on pay-per-view winner gets their way. Can't wait for the China vs. Tibet bout.
 
WillRockwell said:
They weren't fired on, they just imagined seeing weapons and got clearance to fire based on that fiction. We shouldn't have had gunships operating in an urban area in the first place.
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Please. Let me tell you how that works. You see a guu with something that can blow you out of the sky taking position behind a wall you dont wait to be fired upon.

War is not what you play on your xbox kid.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Ya... because the enemy was sooooo taken out in this situation. Reuters reporters, people that where never proven hostile, and people who help the wounded who have no weapons. The enemy. I wonder what we do with all the enemy bodies? And what about bodies of "collateral dammage"? Do civilians that end up in the path of fire get tossed with the terrorists bodies? (assuming we toss the bodies anyplace)
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My job in the af included picking targets and im tellin you. That guy who crouhe behind the wall would have my undivided attention along with anyone with him.

Ill tell you from experience just seeing that guy crouch behind the wall with that thing put my hair on end.

And i dont give a rats ass about some reporter if he's embedded with the enemy.
 
It is far easier to distinguish it as a camera when you already know that it's a camera. When you are one edge defending ground troops and the person is with several people armed with AK-47s, you will be a hell of lot more suspicious.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Is this the incident where they glued gloves onto the girls hands to hide some creepy evidence?
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After rereading your question the answer is no. This is a different one.
 
Gray_Fox_86 said:
After rereading your question the answer is no. This is a different one.
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I watched yours and maybe you should start a thread on cover up suicides in the militairy. The official report says nothing of the fire from the bench sprayed with something inflamible.

The story of Alyssa Peterson is odd. She didn't like what she saw when observing the harsh treatment of prisoners. So she burned her own dairy and killed herself supposedly.

Jayne Lyn Stahl: Black Ops and Fort Hood

Peterson, a U.S. Army Specialist, received her Arabic language certification, and served with the 101st Airborne in Iraq. She was an enlistee, a career intelligence officer, whose concentration was interrogation techniques. She found herself part of black ops, expected to participate in a clandestine operation in what we now know to have been so-called "alternative enhanced interrogation techniques" which she refused to do.

While the Army has denied it, sources close to Peterson say she was so deeply despondent about what she witnessed at the detention camp in Iraq that, on September 15, 2003, she was found with a bullet wound to her head, a victim of what the Army euphemistically called "non-hostile weapon discharge."

Like Hassan, Peterson was deeply religious. She was a member of the Church of Jesus Christ Latter-Day saints. Within days of taking her life, she was placed on suicide watch after refusing to participate in interrogation sessions at the airbase on the Syrian-Iraqi border, interrogations which she believed involved the torture of Iraqi prisoners.
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U.S. Military Is Keeping Secrets About Female Soldiers' 'Suicides' | World | AlterNet

Seems like there is enough for a new thread.
 
Middleground said:
That is exactly what I saw. It is also fairly clear to me that it was a camera. How could they have mistaken that for a gun??? I'm not sure why the American military felt the need to engage, at least from the footage that I have seen. Perhaps there is more to the story, I don't know. But that footage was chilling to the bone.
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If you listen to the radio traffic, you can clearly hear that there is a friendly unit egaging the enemy nearby. It's the reason that the leader of the ground unit stated, "...I have no personel to my East...". He was obviously in contact and was marking his position for the gunship.

Other than that, I say that that was some damn nice shooting.
 
WillRockwell said:
They weren't fired on, they just imagined seeing weapons and got clearance to fire based on that fiction. We shouldn't have had gunships operating in an urban area in the first place.
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Yeah, let's be more fair to the enemy.
 
I'll give the pilots, the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the first incident. That stuff could have looked like RPG's and AK-47's from a distance.

But what I find to be very interesting, is that known one is mentioning the 2nd incident involving the van. Listening to the communications and looking at the video, there is nothing to suggest that the van was a credible threat.

All the pilots did was ask for permission to fire, yet no reason was provided, except that,

"they are picking up bodies and weapons'

They shot at a van when they didn't need to. If there is a war crime it occurred during the second incident.....
 
Australianlibertarian said:
I'll give the pilots, the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the first incident. That stuff could have looked like RPG's and AK-47's from a distance.

But what I find to be very interesting, is that known one is mentioning the 2nd incident involving the van. Listening to the communications and looking at the video, there is nothing to suggest that the van was a credible threat.

All the pilots did was ask for permission to fire, yet no reason was provided, except that,

"they are picking up bodies and weapons'

They shot at a van when they didn't need to. If there is a war crime it occurred during the second incident.....
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Picking up a weapon is "reason" enough to engage. this has alway been.
 
Australianlibertarian said:
I'll give the pilots, the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the first incident. That stuff could have looked like RPG's and AK-47's from a distance.

But what I find to be very interesting, is that known one is mentioning the 2nd incident involving the van. Listening to the communications and looking at the video, there is nothing to suggest that the van was a credible threat.

All the pilots did was ask for permission to fire, yet no reason was provided, except that,

"they are picking up bodies and weapons'

They shot at a van when they didn't need to. If there is a war crime it occurred during the second incident.....
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It's called, "the fog of war".
 
How would the US react to our soldiers being fired upon while picking up our wounded?
 
USA-1 said:
How would the US react to our soldiers being fired upon while picking up our wounded?
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Get pissed off and kill the enemy with a vengence.

There's no doubt that American troops have been fired upon while evacing wounded from the kill zone.

If you enter a hot kill zone, there's a 99% chance that you're going to get shot at, regardless of the reason you're there. It's the nature of war.

So, I guess we're not hypocrites, after all.
 
Australianlibertarian said:
I'll give the pilots, the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the first incident. That stuff could have looked like RPG's and AK-47's from a distance.

But what I find to be very interesting, is that known one is mentioning the 2nd incident involving the van. Listening to the communications and looking at the video, there is nothing to suggest that the van was a credible threat.

All the pilots did was ask for permission to fire, yet no reason was provided, except that,

"they are picking up bodies and weapons'

They shot at a van when they didn't need to. If there is a war crime it occurred during the second incident.....
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There you go.
 
If I believed that someone was retrieving the weapons that were meant to kill my fellow brothers-in-arms, I would have mowed 'em down in a New York second.

Study long, study wrong.
 
Alvin T. Grey said:
They slotted the getaway car. Or the combat equivelent thereof.
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No, they decided it was more combatants and fired. What did they base that decision on? Nothing. Watch the video again.

BTW, since when do we target the unarmed and wounded? There were no weapons visible in or near the van nor on the people who exited the van. It was a bad engagement.
 
Didn't they get permission to engage these people?
 
American said:
Didn't they get permission to engage these people?
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Well, yes and no. They were talking to someone on the ground; either the leader of the ground force, or the forward observer. But that individual could not see what they were looking at.

Generally, Helo pilots are cleared to engage without some type of higher authority permission vice the ground unit they are supporting.
 
This is a well written explanation of some of the situation: PolitiFact | Gates said leaked military video of shooting in Iraq doesn't show the broader picture of Americans being fired upon

According to a military review completed five days after the incident, soldiers in that company "had been under sporadic small arms and rocket propelled grenade fire since" the operation -- described as "clearing their sector and looking for weapons caches" -- began at dawn that morning.

That comports with the detailed reporting from David Finkel, a Washington Post journalist who was embedded for eight months with the battalion in question, and who described the events that day in his book, The Good Soldiers.

"All morning long, this part of Al-Amin had been the most hostile," Finkel wrote. "East Al-Amin had been filled with gunfire and some explosions. There had been reports of sniper fire, rooftop chases, and rocket-propelled grenades being fired at Bravo Company, and as the fighting continued, it attracted the attention of Namir Noor-Eldeen, a twenty-two year-old photographer for the Reuters news agency who lived in Baghdad, and Saeed Chmagh, forty, his driver."
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