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Leaked footage from Apache showing "US military slaughter" in Baghdad

You can't effect an arrest from a helicopter. If you engage an enemy you kill them.
It prevents you from having to engage the same target next month. Simple as.

It was not necessary. They did not have to engage in a group of men standing around over a gun in a country where guns are probably a common sight.
From the video, no one was shooting at anyone. No one was engaging in any, as far as I could see hostile activity.
No one was in any immediate danger.

You can't arrest the helicopter no but you are arrest the idiots giving the orders.
 
And now you can see the balls... or maybe desperation it took for mild torture victims pictures to be released early on and then have alllllll the bad ones depicting murder (didnt obama pretty much almost admit that or no?)there after scooped up and locked away because it would be a threat to national security. Why? Because they must be so grotesque that the American people would have shook the ground with there marches until the very foundation that allowed this all to happened crumbled into dust. They can't afford to tell my fellow Americans the truth.

Incidents like this only go to prove that the American people need to see all misdeeds we do. Humans need to see what exactly we did to torture. And if it horrible then discipline must come lawfully. And if they are all deleted then everything else Obama and Bush have done need to be picked with a fine tooth comb. Past, present and future. Only then can we truly weigh them against our good deeds.

I agree, I have always supported media reporting on Iraq and Afghanistan and casualties.

If individuals do not have the balls to observe the consequences of military actions on countries then perhaps they'd need to review their opinions on wars.
If the British public saw war as it truly is without Government covering it up, I doubt anyone would support it.
 
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Okay, I understand how you could mistake a camera for a bazooka. I'm not sure seeing a weapon is enough justification to kill 12 people, but I've never been to war and I can give the soldiers the benefit of the doubt on that. If we have a right to bear arms in this country, why don't Iraqis have the right to bear arms in their own country without being blown to bits by a helicopter? The only ones who did anything hostile in that video were the U.S. troops. But okay, sometimes it is kill or be killed.

What I really don't understand is why they would fire on a van trying to evacuate wounded. We don't do this on a battlefield, why would we do it in a civilian zone? Are they not allowed to own a van? The voices of the men in the helicopter sounded eager to kill people. Saying things like "come on, pick up a weapon" when talking about the injured reporter who was crawling along the sidewalk. Almost begging their superiors for clearance to shoot up the van before it gets away. I don't know what causes this type of thinking, whether it is the military training, racism, or psychopathy. But even on a battlefield, there should be no place for soldiers who enjoy killing.

Meanwhile at the end of the video, when dealing with the injured children, U.S. troops were ordered to let the Iraqi Police take care of them. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Let the Iraqi Police investigate the guy with the gun, and the U.S. Helicopter take care of the wounded child. I realize this was 2007 and things might be slightly more civilized now, but I see no excuse for some of the behavior in this video. Much respect to Wikileaks and to whoever sent them the video to right this injustice, accidental or not.
 
Okay, I understand how you could mistake a camera for a bazooka. I'm not sure seeing a weapon is enough justification to kill 12 people, but I've never been to war and I can give the soldiers the benefit of the doubt on that. If we have a right to bear arms in this country, why don't Iraqis have the right to bear arms in their own country without being blown to bits by a helicopter? The only ones who did anything hostile in that video were the U.S. troops. But okay, sometimes it is kill or be killed.]
You don't wear a AK-47 in a hot area, if you hear gunshots and a helicopter then you go inside and wait till it's over.


What I really don't understand is why they would fire on a van trying to evacuate wounded. We don't do this on a battlefield, why would we do it in a civilian zone? Are they not allowed to own a van? The voices of the men in the helicopter sounded eager to kill people. Saying things like "come on, pick up a weapon" when talking about the injured reporter who was crawling along the sidewalk. Almost begging their superiors for clearance to shoot up the van before it gets away. I don't know what causes this type of thinking, whether it is the military training, racism, or psychopathy. But even on a battlefield, there should be no place for soldiers who enjoy killing.
Because it's not your job to take care of the wounded. US can do that and they never know who is trying to take care of them. If the guys in the video are targets, then most likely so are the ones in the van targets as well. If you see your friend get hit by the US helicopter, take cover, not run out in the open trying to take him and all of the guns in a black van.

Also, leave your children home before you start going around in the open in a hot spot. That should be common sense, shouldn't it?
 
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Okay, I understand how you could mistake a camera for a bazooka. I'm not sure seeing a weapon is enough justification to kill 12 people, but I've never been to war and I can give the soldiers the benefit of the doubt on that. If we have a right to bear arms in this country, why don't Iraqis have the right to bear arms in their own country without being blown to bits by a helicopter? The only ones who did anything hostile in that video were the U.S. troops. But okay, sometimes it is kill or be killed.

They were being fired at - if you paid attention to the relay between pilot and dispatcher you would have picked up on that key fact. They didn't engage freely, either.
They believed they saw a weapon, they were being fired upon and asked permission for clearance to fire - and gained that permission and then fired.

What I really don't understand is why they would fire on a van trying to evacuate wounded. We don't do this on a battlefield, why would we do it in a civilian zone? Are they not allowed to own a van?

Yes, sure, they were trying to evacuate their own - and still been covered under the permission to fire - they did as they felt was required.

The voices of the men in the helicopter sounded eager to kill people. Saying things like "come on, pick up a weapon" when talking about the injured reporter who was crawling along the sidewalk. Almost begging their superiors for clearance to shoot up the van before it gets away. I don't know what causes this type of thinking, whether it is the military training, racism, or psychopathy. But even on a battlefield, there should be no place for soldiers who enjoy killing.

Meanwhile at the end of the video, when dealing with the injured children, U.S. troops were ordered to let the Iraqi Police take care of them. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Let the Iraqi Police investigate the guy with the gun, and the U.S. Helicopter take care of the wounded child. I realize this was 2007 and things might be slightly more civilized now, but I see no excuse for some of the behavior in this video. Much respect to Wikileaks and to whoever sent them the video to right this injustice, accidental or not.

You obviously don't know much about combat and military engagement if you're really questioning all this.

I challenge you to do what any soldier has to do - every damn day.

Why is your concern so misplaced? You should be hurt and worried over the soldiers and how they're doing while deployed, not what they're doing and why and what they're thinking when they're doing it.

Did these soldiers have a chance to talk to their loved ones at home during the week? Did they have adequate sleeping arrangements? When it got cold at night did they have decent cover or did they shiver in their foxholes?

I'm really TIRED of people giving too much of a **** about the enemy and not a single flying **** about the people who REALLY matter in this situation. Get your **** straight.
 
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To tell you the truth G. The initial actions of the Apache crew were correct under the circumstances. They identified (correctly or incorrectly) the group as armed. They reported the contact, got permission to engage. and did so. From the video it appears justified.
No issues there.

Then the van arrives.
Guess what? They were justified in taking out the van also. Remember that they had just identified an armed group of insurgents. Anyone giving aid to same is an insurgent also. That's what makes it a valid target.
As it turns out the initial sighting was incorrect, and an error on the part of the US. But an understandable one given the quality of the video feed. But the steps taken after that were the correct ones.

Its regretable, but bound to happen given the nature of the conflict.

Yup! I agree!
 
They were being fired at - if you paid attention to the relay between pilot and dispatcher you would have picked up on that key fact. They didn't engage freely, either.
They believed they saw a weapon, they were being fired upon and asked permission for clearance to fire - and gained that permission and then fired.
I had to watch it again to see what you are talking about. When the pilot said "We've got a guy shooting" he was mistaking the reporter's video camera for an RPG. There was no hostility against the Americans that I can see on that video. Perhaps you can point out to me where I am wrong.

Why is your concern so misplaced? You should be hurt and worried over the soldiers and how they're doing while deployed, not what they're doing and why and what they're thinking when they're doing it.

Did these soldiers have a chance to talk to their loved ones at home during the week? Did they have adequate sleeping arrangements? When it got cold at night did they have decent cover or did they shiver in their foxholes?

I'm really TIRED of people giving too much of a **** about the enemy and not a single flying **** about the people who REALLY matter in this situation. Get your **** straight.

They are not my enemy. I treat them both the same. The Iraqi people have never harmed me. The soldiers in the helicopter have never helped me. I'm not going to side with one over the other because of where they were born. There are bad people on the American side as well as the Iraqi side. And from what I've seen of this video the Iraqis were innocent in this case. Not all Americans are good and not all Iraqis are bad. To think that way and have that sort of blind patriotism is as ignorant as racism or any other type of prejudicial thoughts.

The Americans can get in their helicopter and go home anytime they want to. The Iraqis are home, they have nowhere else to go. The Americans chose to join the army, and knew (or should've known) they would be in dangerous situations and might not get to talk to their loved ones. The Iraqis (for the most part) didn't choose to have a war in their back yard, and their loved ones are being shot at. After this mission, the Americans flew their helicopter back to base and had dinner. The Iraqis were dead. Even if it was just a tragic accident (which I think is only partly true) the civilians were the victims here. These are logical reasons for me to sympathize with the Iraqis rather than the Americans in this case. This is not misplaced, this is my thought-out opinion.
 
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It's disturbing to read the kinds of insane justification that some people are willing to use for the slaughtering of UNARMED human beings, simply because it was "our side" that did it. Disgusting.
 
No, but there should be a demonstration of hostile intent before engaging. Simply walking out in the open with an AK-47 (which is commonplace in Iraq) is not a sufficient demonstration of hostility.




Actually, no, it's not.
 
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This video showed extremely poor conduct. Is it condoned policy to kill people on sight simply for carrying weapons? There was no hostile actions by any of the people, and they could have easily instructed them to thrown down their weapons and surrender before opening fire. The Apache was in very little danger, so they could have easily taken their time in figuring out what was going on. Shooting the van collecting the wounded is simply unacceptable.

What bothers me most is that the soldiers received permission to fire upon the van. They didn't just freak out and fire, they calmly asked for permission to fire, and were given clearance to do so. There was no indication of anything hostile from the van, and yet some commander still authorized its destruction. Furthermore, this incident was not reported to the press. No evidence that the soldiers were disciplined for the event has come out either.





the US Military does not answer to the press..... Furthermore, the van entered a firefight. It could have had something that could have brought the aircraft down. :doh
 
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For the record, I am not an Apache pilot. However, as a Foward Observer for Infantry units, I have habitually utilized them in combat for CCA (close combat attack), recon and my "eyes" during missions, because they can observe things I cannot see. Every single time (dozens) that I have utilized Apaches and Kiowas in combat, they have done a magnificent job and have been totally professional.

I watched the video five times so that I could see everything. Truth be told, I am on the side of the pilots because I believe as Soldiers, they are good and honest people who are trying to do their jobs and keep the ground elements safe. I am trying to remain objective, though for analytical purposes.

In this context, there were ground elements in what's called a "TIC" or Troops in Contact, just down the street. When that is the case, the observer or ground leader controlling the A/C is also responsible for what is engaged, not just the pilots. "Bushmaster" and "Hotel" elements, from what I gather could not see what the pilots were looking at, due to the fact they were in a TIC close by. That is excusable. From that point, it becomes the pilot's responsibility to engage targets of opportunity. The only problem is that the pilots can't see as well as the observer on the ground.

The Iraqis in the video did not use very good judgement. There was a TIC not far from where they were, so you can assume they heard the gunfire and knew what was going on. You can also probably assume they saw the A/C monitoring their position. It was also not wise for them to band together and "run to the sound of the guns". It does appear that they are coming together as a group and it could be construed that they are preparing for an ambush or at least headed to the gunfight to participate. I'll give the pilots a pass on that.

The pilots know that this video is recording and that it can be used for a 15-6 investigation. They also know their conversations are recorded. I think that they were unprofessional at times on the radio (swearing, celebration, etc). But the point is that these weren't rogue dudes just murdering people. They knew all the events that day were recorded; one must assume they thought they were in the right.

I do see how they mistaked the long-lense camera for an RPG. It looked like an RPG to me. I didn't notice any AK-47s, though; but I understand the fog of war. In that particular area, there had been a lot of violence (this is during the bloodiest part of the The Surge, if you recall) and I am making the assumption the pilots had been in previous firefights similar to this. As for firing on the vehicle, I am not sure what the ROE is. There was no evidence of weapons coming from the van or possessed by anyone in the van; however, if they are "rescuing" percieved insurgents, then they are not good guys. How are the pilots to know that they are just good samaritans and not aiding the enemy? Also, it's probably not wise to approach a combat situation when you have your children with you. I do believe the pilots could have restrained from engaging the vehicle and could have easily tracked it's movement and reported it to the ground element. I'm not Monday morning quarterbacking, but it was an option.

I picked up on this story two days ago at a COIN message board (SWC) that I post at. Most of the posters at SWC are active duty or retired military, most of all have combat experience. Not everyone is giving the pilots a pass on this one, including me. I think things could have gone differently.

I have had many occasions in combat when I've had to hold my fire and that of my unit. It's not easy, but it's reality. I can honestly say that I have never engaged non-combatants (to my knowledge) and I can sleep at night. However, I do not find the pilots negligent in this instance. I think there were a few times when they could have used better judgement and kept the finger off the trigger; but I wasn't there. I don't know all the details, so I'm not going to claim they are guilty of anything.

These guys now have to sleep at night knowing they killed and wounded unarmed civilians, journalists and children. That is punishment enough. We ask a lot of not only pilots, but all troops in combat to make split second decisions that may or may not cost their lives, their buddies' lives or the lives of the innocent and the wicked a like. It's a tough job and I think as a society, we should always be on the side of the Soldier unless overwhelming evidence indicates otherwise.

War is Hell. People die. It sucks.

I'm not trying to make excuses. I'm just asking people to try and understand what these guys were going through.
 
It's disturbing to read the kinds of insane justification that some people are willing to use for the slaughtering of UNARMED human beings, simply because it was "our side" that did it. Disgusting.




Watching that video, I would have made the same assumption that these people were armed and acting in a hostile manner. croucing behind that wall and peering around that corner with that large long object.... scary stuff....
 
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It was not necessary. They did not have to engage in a group of men standing around over a gun in a country where guns are probably a common sight.

Yes, guns are a common site because the Taliban and extremist violence are common sites. A group of men carrying RPG's and AK47's in an area in suburban Baghdad which is subject to frequent violence should under every circumstance be met with suspicion by observing military personnel. As well as being fully aware of the presence of the US military Apache and doing nothing to act on it for the sake of there own lives is both irresponsible and worrisome.
The military are not there to take there chances.
Civilians who are irresponsible and engage in activity deemed suspicious and threatening cannot have my sympathies when engaged by the military.

From the video, no one was shooting at anyone. No one was engaging in any, as far as I could see hostile activity.
No one was in any immediate danger.

How do you know that? They had RPG's. The area is home to many civilians. What you suggest is pure negligence. The US military was merely acting in the interests of the security of the Iraqi people. When the military makes mistakes because stupid citizens provoked an attack, you cannot hold us responsible.
 
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For the record, I am not an Apache pilot. However, as a Foward Observer for Infantry units, I have habitually utilized them in combat for CCA (close combat attack), recon and my "eyes" during missions, because they can observe things I cannot see. Every single time (dozens) that I have utilized Apaches and Kiowas in combat, they have done a magnificent job and have been totally professional.

I watched the video five times so that I could see everything. Truth be told, I am on the side of the pilots because I believe as Soldiers, they are good and honest people who are trying to do their jobs and keep the ground elements safe. I am trying to remain objective, though for analytical purposes.

In this context, there were ground elements in what's called a "TIC" or Troops in Contact, just down the street. When that is the case, the observer or ground leader controlling the A/C is also responsible for what is engaged, not just the pilots. "Bushmaster" and "Hotel" elements, from what I gather could not see what the pilots were looking at, due to the fact they were in a TIC close by. That is excusable. From that point, it becomes the pilot's responsibility to engage targets of opportunity. The only problem is that the pilots can't see as well as the observer on the ground.

The Iraqis in the video did not use very good judgement. There was a TIC not far from where they were, so you can assume they heard the gunfire and knew what was going on. You can also probably assume they saw the A/C monitoring their position. It was also not wise for them to band together and "run to the sound of the guns". It does appear that they are coming together as a group and it could be construed that they are preparing for an ambush or at least headed to the gunfight to participate. I'll give the pilots a pass on that.

The pilots know that this video is recording and that it can be used for a 15-6 investigation. They also know their conversations are recorded. I think that they were unprofessional at times on the radio (swearing, celebration, etc). But the point is that these weren't rogue dudes just murdering people. They knew all the events that day were recorded; one must assume they thought they were in the right.

I do see how they mistaked the long-lense camera for an RPG. It looked like an RPG to me. I didn't notice any AK-47s, though; but I understand the fog of war. In that particular area, there had been a lot of violence (this is during the bloodiest part of the The Surge, if you recall) and I am making the assumption the pilots had been in previous firefights similar to this. As for firing on the vehicle, I am not sure what the ROE is. There was no evidence of weapons coming from the van or possessed by anyone in the van; however, if they are "rescuing" percieved insurgents, then they are not good guys. How are the pilots to know that they are just good samaritans and not aiding the enemy? Also, it's probably not wise to approach a combat situation when you have your children with you. I do believe the pilots could have restrained from engaging the vehicle and could have easily tracked it's movement and reported it to the ground element. I'm not Monday morning quarterbacking, but it was an option.

I picked up on this story two days ago at a COIN message board (SWC) that I post at. Most of the posters at SWC are active duty or retired military, most of all have combat experience. Not everyone is giving the pilots a pass on this one, including me. I think things could have gone differently.

I have had many occasions in combat when I've had to hold my fire and that of my unit. It's not easy, but it's reality. I can honestly say that I have never engaged non-combatants (to my knowledge) and I can sleep at night. However, I do not find the pilots negligent in this instance. I think there were a few times when they could have used better judgement and kept the finger off the trigger; but I wasn't there. I don't know all the details, so I'm not going to claim they are guilty of anything.

These guys now have to sleep at night knowing they killed and wounded unarmed civilians, journalists and children. That is punishment enough. We ask a lot of not only pilots, but all troops in combat to make split second decisions that may or may not cost their lives, their buddies' lives or the lives of the innocent and the wicked a like. It's a tough job and I think as a society, we should always be on the side of the Soldier unless overwhelming evidence indicates otherwise.

War is Hell. People die. It sucks.

I'm not trying to make excuses. I'm just asking people to try and understand what these guys were going through.
I wouldn't have been so hard on the Apache crew. They engaged an unmarked vehicle retrieving insurgents (remember they incorrectly identified the group as insurgents). It's S.O.P for insurgents to remove the casualties (at least it was Hezzis and is with the Talliban) because it makes it difficult for the oposition to figure out whether they killed anything or not. Thats a big psychological advantage.

And when dealing with terrorists you can't take anything for granted. I've seen Hezzis piled into the rear of ambulances, in police cars etc. Ive seen bombs being packed into the bucket of a JCB (backhoe?) and the boot of a taxi.
 
I wouldn't have been so hard on the Apache crew. They engaged an unmarked vehicle retrieving insurgents (remember they incorrectly identified the group as insurgents). It's S.O.P for insurgents to remove the casualties (at least it was Hezzis and is with the Talliban) because it makes it difficult for the oposition to figure out whether they killed anything or not. Thats a big psychological advantage.

Yeah, that's why I said I didn't know what the ROE was with removal of bodies or the wounded. All I'm saying is that they didn't have to smoke them. There were other options. If the ROE was kill those removing bodies and aiding the wounded, then that's what it is. I'm just saying I don't know.


And when dealing with terrorists you can't take anything for granted. I've seen Hezzis piled into the rear of ambulances, in police cars etc. Ive seen bombs being packed into the bucket of a JCB (backhoe?) and the boot of a taxi.

I hear you. Bombs aren't too much of a threat to the birds.
 
What planet were you on between 1991 and 2003?

Late 1980s onward, climaxing with Saddam re-basing his oil on the Euro instead of the Dollar. Saddam was the lesser of 2 evils when we installed him to combat our mutual enemy, Iran, but then he turned on us. He bit the hand that fed him.

He didnt mess with America

he messed with the US government interests outside of America
 
The Iraqis in the video did not use very good judgement. There was a TIC not far from where they were, so you can assume they heard the gunfire and knew what was going on. You can also probably assume they saw the A/C monitoring their position. It was also not wise for them to band together and "run to the sound of the guns". It does appear that they are coming together as a group and it could be construed that they are preparing for an ambush or at least headed to the gunfight to participate. I'll give the pilots a pass on that.
I don't know about all the hearing the gunfire thingy. Can't really say on any gunshots before the apache ambush. But, I've seen one apache video where a farmer was putting down plow markers and got shot at by the apache. Now somehow even though the guy was right on target his first shot at the guy renders no hits. Now even though these bullets are wizzing what must be inches away from the apache target the farmer keeps on doing what he was doing and never noticed he was being shot at.

Now with all this superior equipment why couldn't they just disable the van by shooting at the engine for half a second? Or let them know you may kill them but light up the wall next to them instead and see if they drop and put their hands up, run, keep helping, or become hostile. How hard is it to follow a van in a badass apache and blair "STOP" in their language and kill them only if they don't?

They obviously somehow didn't see the apache. Or if they did they didn't think it would ever shoot at them. Otherwise one of them would have taken cover before it lit um up.
 
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How do you know that? They had RPG's. The area is home to many civilians. What you suggest is pure negligence. The US military was merely acting in the interests of the security of the Iraqi people. When the military makes mistakes because stupid citizens provoked an attack, you cannot hold us responsible.

MetalGear,
I thought it has already been decided that they did not have RPG's. What the pilots claimed to have been RPG's did not look anything like RPG's, maybe since you have served in the frontline of the war against Iraq with the SAS and $hit you can perhaps tell me does Iraq have an RPG that looks like a camera?
 
I don't know about all the hearing the gunfire thingy. Can't really say on any gunshots before the apache ambush. But, I've seen one apache video where a farmer was putting down plow markers and got shot at by the apache. Now somehow even though the guy was right on target his first shot at the guy renders no hits. Now even though these bullets are wizzing what must be inches away from the apache target the farmer keeps on doing what he was doing and never noticed he was being shot at.

Now with all this superior equipment why couldn't they just disable the van by shooting at the engine for half a second? Or let them know you may kill them but light up the wall next to them instead and see if they drop and put their hands up, run, keep helping, or become hostile. How hard is it to follow a van in a badass apache and blair "STOP" in their language and kill them only if they don't?

They obviously somehow didn't see the apache. Or if they did they didn't think it would ever shoot at them. Otherwise one of them would have taken cover before it lit um up.

Just out of curiosity...whats a 'plow marker'? Where can one buy a 'plow marker'? Oh...and I dont mean the rigid orange markers that attach to plows...I mean the kind of plows that apparently work by being thrown into a field...

Ive seen the video too. I'd be most intrigued to know what kind of 'plow markers' are the shape and size of the 'plow markers' thrown into the field. And Id be FASCINATED to learn why they hadnt used it prior to throwing it in the field. And VERY intrigued as to why they suddenly felt the need to toss said 'plow marker' haphazardly into the field after being taken from the back seat of a car...where it apparently wasnt doing a whole lot of good PRIOR to being thrown into the field...to...what purpose...I dont really know...as I havent seen them used on ANY ranch or farm applications before...
 
He didnt mess with America

he messed with the US government interests outside of America

And THAT is PRECISELY why Bill Clinton lit him up 8 times during his presidency!
 
Just out of curiosity...whats a 'plow marker'? Where can one buy a 'plow marker'? Oh...and I dont mean the rigid orange markers that attach to plows...I mean the kind of plows that apparently work by being thrown into a field...

Ive seen the video too. I'd be most intrigued to know what kind of 'plow markers' are the shape and size of the 'plow markers' thrown into the field. And Id be FASCINATED to learn why they hadnt used it prior to throwing it in the field. And VERY intrigued as to why they suddenly felt the need to toss said 'plow marker' haphazardly into the field after being taken from the back seat of a car...where it apparently wasnt doing a whole lot of good PRIOR to being thrown into the field...to...what purpose...I dont really know...as I havent seen them used on ANY ranch or farm applications before...

The vid i seen they used a long rod or some crap with 2 flags tied to the ends. And it marker was the width of the plow pattern below it. And you can see the plow behind aiming perfectly to meet the marker....
 
The vid i seen they used a long rod or some crap with 2 flags tied to the ends. And it marker was the width of the plow pattern below it. And you can see the plow behind aiming perfectly to meet the marker....

It wasnt a 'rod'...it was a package of at least some substance rigid that had to be at least 18 inches in diameter (the heat from the individuals hand left a residual heat signature on less than half of it).

No way in HELL were they marking the plow pattern. Dude ran into a field and tossed it like it was stolen. He didnt measure anything...certainly not the swath and width of the tractor...which...oh yeah...you dont do because you place the plow on the inner markings...not the outer. He didnt place anything. He ran into the field, ditched whatever it was, and ran back.

Nah...you heard the narration and parroted it without applying THOUGHT...kind of a dangerous thing to do.

As with this video, that video also makes me feel very twisted. I see both sides...and Ive spent several years there. I think its likely that in both incidents the pilots were quick on the trigger. i wasnt there...I dont know the full circumstances.

But just taking detractors word at face value is as wreckless as just blindly supporting the actions.
 
MetalGear,
I thought it has already been decided that they did not have RPG's. What the pilots claimed to have been RPG's did not look anything like RPG's, maybe since you have served in the frontline of the war against Iraq with the SAS and $hit you can perhaps tell me does Iraq have an RPG that looks like a camera?
It looks like one guy had an RPG and another guy had an AK47. Watch around 3:40 of the video. After seeing those, it would be easy to mistake the photographic equipment for a third and fourth weapon.
 
It looks like one guy had an RPG and another guy had an AK47. Watch around 3:40 of the video. After seeing those, it would be easy to mistake the photographic equipment for a third and fourth weapon.

Yeah. But not the van.
 
MetalGear,
I thought it has already been decided that they did not have RPG's. What the pilots claimed to have been RPG's did not look anything like RPG's, maybe since you have served in the frontline of the war against Iraq with the SAS and $hit you can perhaps tell me does Iraq have an RPG that looks like a camera?

You need to get your eyes checked out. I saw an RPG.

And if im the one that is mistaken, i sure as hell cant blame them for thinking it is.

Anyway, in the KNOWN presence of an Apache (might i add) they did very little to illicit behavior that wouldn't have been conceived as suspicious and they did everything in there power to look like the Taliban IMO.

Forget the fact they where walking down the road armed to the teeth, how about the suspicious "corner checking" that little Iraqi watchman was doing? I sure as hell would have shot the s-hit out of them.
 
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