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Army 'showdown' at eligibility corral. Lt. Col. asks for birth cert.

When are the Libbos going to get the picture? It's a soldier's right to ask those questions.

But, instead, you all support persecuting anyone that dares question The Messiah.

Messiah? Your heresy is ridiculous. Lakin disregarded a facially valid order and then complained about something that had nothing to do with his order. Again what the hell is a libbo? Stop butchering the english language.
 
Invalid orders. Not facially valid orders. They can question their commanders but where has there been precedence that someone like Lakin has a right to have his issues addressed by the president?



You do know the difference between orders and authority to issue those orders, don't you?

You don't get it apdst that's why he's being court martialed

The court martial won't stick.
 
Messiah? Your heresy is ridiculous. Lakin disregarded a facially valid order and then complained about something that had nothing to do with his order. Again what the hell is a libbo? Stop butchering the english language.

Come up with some factual information, vice insults and personal attacks.
 
But, never once addressed by their commander. If Obama had any honor, he would address it himself, rather than letting lawyers and judges run interfearance for him.

It has already been addressed many times over. You still have shown no precedence giving him the right to address the president. His orders were given by his direct commanders. Obama has addressed the birth certificate issue more than he even should have.



They deserted because of their cowardice, not their concern about their commander's legitimate authority. Big difference.

No using their commander's legitimacy is an excuse. We both know damned well that if McCain was president these guys wouldn't have pulled this ****, even though McCain had perceived greater issues.
 
Come up with some factual information, vice insults and personal attacks.

Personal attacks? I haven't made a personal attack. You, on the other hand, have. You haven't posted any factual information thus far.
 
You do know the difference between orders and authority to issue those orders, don't you?
You do know regardless of if Obama was legitimate or not the orders are still valid with the proper authority don't you? The orders came directly from Lakin's superiors. Lakin's issue is with them not the president.

The court martial won't stick.
We shall see
 
So that now that the colonel is formally charged, does any body think he's going to win? No? I rather think he's going to be spending time, a long time contemplating his decisions in a cell.
 
It has already been addressed many times over. You still have shown no precedence giving him the right to address the president. His orders were given by his direct commanders. Obama has addressed the birth certificate issue more than he even should have.

I've already showed you where the UCMJ gives soldiers the right to have their grievances addressed by their commander. A soldier can even petition Congress to do so. No where does it say that gievances can't be brought against the President.





No using their commander's legitimacy is an excuse. We both know damned well that if McCain was president these guys wouldn't have pulled this ****, even though McCain had perceived greater issues.

Because their's no question about McCain's legitimacy...:rofl

But, now we see what you're really mad about...:rofl
 
So that now that the colonel is formally charged, does any body think he's going to win? No? I rather think he's going to be spending time, a long time contemplating his decisions in a cell.

It ain't gonna happen.
 
You do know regardless of if Obama was legitimate or not the orders are still valid with the proper authority don't you? The orders came directly from Lakin's superiors. Lakin's issue is with them not the president.

And, you do know, from all your military experience, that if Obama was deemed illigitimate, news orders would have to be issued, voiding the old orders, thereby making the old orders illegal. Don't you?

Weren't you in the service? You should know how the system works. Lakin's immediate commander didn't write the marching orders for his unit. The DoD did...signed off by the President i.e. The Commander in Chief.
 
I've already showed you where the UCMJ gives soldiers the right to have their grievances addressed by their commander. A soldier can even petition Congress to do so. No where does it say that gievances can't be brought against the President.
You are wrong apdst. The eligibility issue is irrelevant to the court martial. Lakin disregarded a direct order from his superior Colonel Gordon R. Roberts. His grievance would have had to follow the chain of command. The soldier could petition congress but once again Congress has ever right to ignore it. Nowhere does it say the President personally has to address every soldier who brings a grievance.
Because their's no question about McCain's legitimacy...:rofl

But, now we see what you're really mad about...:rofl
Oh there's plenty of questions one being US Military facilities overseas are not considered US Soil according to the state department thus McCain being born overseas is not natural born. However the senate did pass a resolution saying McCain is eligible. Congress did say Obama was eligible too. Lakin would have had a better case against McCain
 
Personal attacks? I haven't made a personal attack. You, on the other hand, have. You haven't posted any factual information thus far.

The UCMJ isn't factual information? Since when?
 
And, you do know, from all your military experience, that if Obama was deemed illigitimate, news orders would have to be issued, voiding the old orders, thereby making the old orders illegal. Don't you?

Weren't you in the service? You should know how the system works. Lakin's immediate commander didn't write the marching orders for his unit. The DoD did...signed off by the President i.e. The Commander in Chief.

Once again Apdst, the President's legitimacy is irrelevant to the court martial. This will likely be deemed in the court martial. His orders came directly from his superiors and were facially valid. Even if Obama was deemed illegitimate, Lakin's orders to deploy would still have been legitimate.

Even fox news has written Lakin off.

FOXNews.com - Birther Army Doctor Court Martial May Yield No New Document

“He is likely to lose everything and accomplish nothing,” one attorney lamented. “No military judge will say that (obtaining documents) of the president is necessary to prove the charges,” said Philip D. Cave, a Washington attorney and director of the National Institute of Military Justice.

Cave said that the validity of Lakin's orders, under military law, does not depend on the president but on the chain of command. “He will be convicted and is in jeopardy of dismissal,” he said.

Dismissal, for a military officer, is the same as a dishonorable discharge for an enlisted servicemember.

“We all feel saddened,” said David Price, a former captain and 25-year veteran of the Navy Judge Advocate General’s office, now in private practice.

“He was issued an order to deploy and didn’t. End of issue,” he said. He said the military has dealt with these types of cases since Vietnam, when soldiers tried to make larger political issues the basis of their trials, and is experienced at keeping the proceedings free of politics.

Price also said that if the case does finally get to a general court-martial and a judge is asked to approve discovery requests by the defense, it is unlikely that it would be allowed to encompass the presidency. He said this wasn’t because of a conspiracy, but because the case is relatively simple and doesn’t require it.

Gary Myers, a former military lawyer who now heads a Washington firm specializing in military law, says he "just shook my head" when he heard about the case “I think [Lakin] is out of his mind” for thinking he could challenge the president this way, he said.
 
The UCMJ isn't factual information? Since when?

Since you misinterpret it. You have shown no precedence for someone like Lakin being able to have his grievances against the president directly addressed.
 
Since you misinterpret it. You have shown no precedence for someone like Lakin being able to have his grievances against the president directly addressed.

LOL...there's no need for precedence, since there's no restriction on how high up the chain of command a soldier can go to address a gievance.
 
LOL...there's no need for precedence, since there's no restriction on how high up the chain of command a soldier can go to address a gievance.

So in other words you can't point to a single situation where this has played out in your mind?

Once again the President's eligibility is not relevant to Lakin's orders. How long were you a military lawyer and suddenly know more than David Price, Phillip Cave and Gary Myers?
 
LOL...there's no need for precedence, since there's no restriction on how high up the chain of command a soldier can go to address a gievance.

Where DO you get your info? All that matters to the court is did he get, and then disobey, a lawful order? Yes on both counts. Obama's birth certificate has no bearing here. He IS the president.

This guy, a Lt. Colonel, does not have the pay grade to investigate, or "grieve", this issue any more than a private does.

Just what does he think this will do?
 
Where DO you get your info? All that matters to the court is did he get, and then disobey, a lawful order? Yes on both counts. Obama's birth certificate has no bearing here. He IS the president.

This guy, a Lt. Colonel, does not have the pay grade to investigate, or "grieve", this issue any more than a private does.

Just what does he think this will do?

I get my information from the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Nowhere in the UCMJ does it say that a civilian court can answer to a grievance by a soldier to his commander.

Paygrade doesn't matter. This right is extended to soldiers from E-1 to O-9.
 
When are the Libbos going to get the picture? It's a soldier's right to ask those questions.

But, instead, you all support persecuting anyone that dares question The Messiah.

Question all you want, but once you're grievence has been heard by your immediate chain of command, the matter should be dropped. I mean, come on, apdst! You claim to be a veteran. Do you honestly believe that our servicemen and women should be so blantantly disobedient just because they don't want to follow the orders of their superiors especially when they have no proof to substantiat the claim they make? It's absord and goes against the ideals of good order and discipline.

Lt.Col Lakin deserves to be court martialed not because his grievence may not have had any merit, but because he's a fool for disobeying orders so blindly.
 
I get my information from the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Nowhere in the UCMJ does it say that a civilian court can answer to a grievance by a soldier to his commander.

Paygrade doesn't matter. This right is extended to soldiers from E-1 to O-9.
Point to an example of someone in the military able to file a grievance personally against the president and disregard direct orders from his superiors and then have it addressed by the President. Once again you think you know more than military lawyers like Price, Myers, and Cave
 
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Question all you want, but once you're grievence has been heard by your immediate chain of command, the matter should be dropped. I mean, come on, apdst! You claim to be a veteran. Do you honestly believe that our servicemen and women should be so blantantly disobedient just because they don't want to follow the orders of their superiors especially when they have no proof to substantiat the claim they make? It's absord and goes against the ideals of good order and discipline.

Lt.Col Lakin deserves to be court martialed not because his grievence may not have had any merit, but because he's a fool for disobeying orders so blindly.

The gievance is to be heard by the commander that the gievance is against and he is to address it. Unless you can find docs saying otherwise, that's the law.

BTW, has Lakin's gievance been addressed by anyone? It hasn't. Has it?
 
Point to an example of someone in the military able to file a grievance personally against the president and disregard direct orders from his superiors and then have it addressed by the President. Once again you think you know more than military lawyers like Price, Myers, and Cave

Post something that proves me wrong, other than your opinion, that is. Thanks in advance.
 
The gievance is to be heard by the commander that the gievance is against and he is to address it. Unless you can find docs saying otherwise, that's the law.

BTW, has Lakin's gievance been addressed by anyone? It hasn't. Has it?

So if it wasn't addressed he's now breaking the chain of command. Either way you have a no win scenario for Lakin
 
Post something that proves me wrong, other than your opinion, that is. Thanks in advance.

Prove you're not crazy. Again you're asking me to prove negative when you've shown no instances where your scenario has played out.
 
So if it wasn't addressed he's now breaking the chain of command. Either way you have a no win scenario for Lakin

Article 138 doesn't apply to the chain of command. It allows a soldier to jump the chain of command and go directly to Congress.
 
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