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Marine officer: Gays, straights shouldn't share housing

Navy Pride said:
Of course Nukes would like to get out early.....They got all that free schooling and now want to go on the outside and take advantage of it......
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I have to take exception to this. Nukes have the highest incident of suicide, drop out, and mental crises out of all the A schools. It's because they have the most strenuous and trying academic program in all the armed forces.

It has nothing to do with taking the money and running.
 
jallman said:
I have to take exception to this. Nukes have the highest incident of suicide, drop out, and mental crises out of all the A schools. It's because they have the most strenuous and trying academic program in all the armed forces.

It has nothing to do with taking the money and running.
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I have never heard that the suicide rate is higher.....My only experience is there are a lot of civilian nukes here in the PSNS and many of them got their training in the Navy.............

Do you get money if you get out now?:confused: I saw the bonus was and incentive for staying in........
 
Navy Pride said:
I have never heard that the suicide rate is higher.....My only experience is there are a lot of civilian nukes here in the PSNS and many of them got their training in the Navy.............

Do you get money if you get out now?:confused: I saw the bonus was and incentive for staying in........
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It was when I signed on and it was a very hefty bonus. What I meant by "take the money and run" was really "take the free education and run".

Most nukes, I think, would want to stay in and have the added experience and bonuses since the nuke program isn't a real degree. It's basically MIT's nuclear engineering program stripped of all electives and humanities.
 
jallman said:
It was when I signed on and it was a very hefty bonus. What I meant by "take the money and run" was really "take the free education and run".

Most nukes, I think, would want to stay in and have the added experience and bonuses since the nuke program isn't a real degree. It's basically MIT's nuclear engineering program stripped of all electives and humanities.
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When I retired I worked for a detachment of NAVSEA called PERA-CV ...About 90% of the people working there were GS12 Engineers...About 60% were Nukes who got out of the Navy when they finished their obligation...A few retired from the Navy as Nukes......
 
jallman said:
It was when I signed on and it was a very hefty bonus. What I meant by "take the money and run" was really "take the free education and run".

Most nukes, I think, would want to stay in and have the added experience and bonuses since the nuke program isn't a real degree. It's basically MIT's nuclear engineering program stripped of all electives and humanities.
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I got $28K tax free when I reenlisted and would have gotten $45K if I would have reenlisted 3 months earlier. And if I would have reenlisted again, I could have gotten close to $60K. But my chief in the reserves has said that the plant he works for near Raleigh is looking to hire, especially nukes, and the starting pay is like $80K a year, and goes up pretty quickly. And I know that other places will hire us too, because when I went to a military job fair in '08, there was this guy there for some materials manufacturer that I told I was a nuke, and he asked first if I was willing to relocate if they offered me enough money and second if I could give his card to my nuke friends. He seemed rather desperate.

It is much more worth it for nukes to get out and work for a civilian company/plant, than it is to stay in the Navy. Which is exactly why the Navy uses such huge reenlistment bonuses to try to get any nukes they can to stay in. Which is pretty much why it would be extremely counterproductive for the military to offer a chance for people to get out, especially with compensation, just because some people may feel uncomfortable living with others.
 
Navy Pride said:
I have never heard that the suicide rate is higher.....My only experience is there are a lot of civilian nukes here in the PSNS and many of them got their training in the Navy.............

Do you get money if you get out now?:confused: I saw the bonus was and incentive for staying in........
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The bonus is a strong incentive for staying in. Which is why it would be extremely counterproductive to offer a chance to get out, especially with compensation, for people who feel uncomfortable living with others that they most likely were living with before. And nukes are not the only ones who would take advantage of such an offer. Even my husband has verified that he's pretty sure a lot of Marines would take such an offer, no matter what their actual feelings toward homosexuals serving openly were. You seem to think that our servicemembers would all be honest, and only those who would actually feel that they couldn't truly work beside openly gay personnel would be the only ones to take an offer of getting out with an honorable discharge and monetary compensation. I know that you are wrong. I saw first hand how some people would lie just to get out of the military with an administrative discharge by saying they were gay when they weren't because they were feeling too stressed. I would say that there would even be some homosexual personnel who would take advantage of such an offer.
 
When I went in, the recruiter told me of the big SRB bonuses we FC's would get for re-upping. Six years later, our rate was at 100% manned and there was NO bonus to be had. :(

It was a good time to make my exit.
 
Captain America said:
When I went in, the recruiter told me of the big SRB bonuses we FC's would get for re-upping. Six years later, our rate was at 100% manned and there was NO bonus to be had. :(

It was a good time to make my exit.
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FC? They where getting an SRB at some point in time? I find that unexpected. AS an AT, I could have gotten a small SRB(I think 5k maybe for 4 years). I had my heart set on getting out though.
 
Redress said:
FC? They where getting an SRB at some point in time? I find that unexpected. AS an AT, I could have gotten a small SRB(I think 5k maybe for 4 years). I had my heart set on getting out though.
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When I went IN, the SRB's for FC's was 28,000.00. That was a pretty good chunk o' change back in the day.
 
Captain America said:
When I went IN, the SRB's for FC's was 28,000.00. That was a pretty good chunk o' change back in the day.
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Dayum! I used to regret I did not go nuke(I had the option based on ASVAB/nuke test), but after all the stories I have heard, I am glad I did not.
 
Redress said:
Dayum! I used to regret I did not go nuke(I had the option based on ASVAB/nuke test), but after all the stories I have heard, I am glad I did not.
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Going nuke would have certainly put me on a sub. No way Jose. FC was the next best rate, so I took it. Became a pushbutton.
 
Captain America said:
Going nuke would have certainly put me on a sub. No way Jose. FC was the next best rate, so I took it. Became a pushbutton.
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And those are some mighty cool buttons.

Brownshoe > * though.
 
Man, my boondockers looked more like a mirror than a shoe. :mrgreen:
 
misterman said:
It's funny how you can substitute a few words and get exactly the same debate over race from 50 or so years ago. Watch:

There comes a point where white people are just gonna have to get over it. I mean come on!

I have yet to see an argument against gays in the military that wasn't used against blacks in the military, or women.
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This thread is not about racism.
 
Redress said:
Dayum! I used to regret I did not go nuke(I had the option based on ASVAB/nuke test), but after all the stories I have heard, I am glad I did not.
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Nukes have it really hard for two solid years. It is a grueling program with a very high rate of drop out and suicide.

However, it is probably one of the most lucrative career paths if you are setting yourself up to get an education in the military and get out. That's why they make it so attractive to accept the bonus and stay in.

At the time I enlisted for it, it was a six year program with a huge resigning bonus for another measley two years.
 
jallman said:
Nukes have it really hard for two solid years. It is a grueling program with a very high rate of drop out and suicide.

However, it is probably one of the most lucrative career paths if you are setting yourself up to get an education in the military and get out. That's why they make it so attractive to accept the bonus and stay in.

At the time I enlisted for it, it was a six year program with a huge resigning bonus for another measley two years.
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That is how I had it explained. A bonus early on for enlisting, 6 years, bit big bonus for another 2. I would have went that way except it was a 7 month wait, whereas I could get in as an AT almost immediately.
 
Redress said:
That is how I had it explained. A bonus early on for enlisting, 6 years, bit big bonus for another 2. I would have went that way except it was a 7 month wait, whereas I could get in as an AT almost immediately.
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It makes sense though. If you think about what it costs to train a nuke, the huge bonus for the two years is more cost effective than training one for six. And actually, it's just four years worth of service out of him because those first two years are literally nothing but school. The fireman in nuke school is nothing but overhead for that two years.
 
Kelzie said:
That's a completely different scenario. Gay men and women have been doing that sort of thing their entire lives in front of the same gender. Men and women haven't been doing that in front of each other and aren't used to it. Thankfully, just because gay people can do it doesn't mean we have to break down all barriers.
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Which is my point, we shouldn't have gays share the same housing as straights openly because gays haven't been open in the military in front of straights, and straights aren't used to it... It's the same thing. A barrier that shouldn't be crossed in my opinion, OR maybe we could have an all gay unit or gay military as a test before we rush f-up the cohesion of our military. We should also implement a test of women and men showering and sh**ting next to each other as well to see if this long standing tradition or barrier needs to be undone.
 
jallman said:
Nukes have it really hard for two solid years. It is a grueling program with a very high rate of drop out and suicide.

However, it is probably one of the most lucrative career paths if you are setting yourself up to get an education in the military and get out. That's why they make it so attractive to accept the bonus and stay in.

At the time I enlisted for it, it was a six year program with a huge resigning bonus for another measley two years.
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I was offered nukes during enlistment and the deal was, up front, a 6 y/o with two years of active reserve immediately following and two years inactive reserve on the back side. The SRB's we're at 32,000.00 at that time. (Early 80's) But, I chose Firecontrol instead. It was a 6 y/o too, with all the same trimmings. Only the SRB's were at 28,000.00 when I signed up.

I still, to this day, wish I could whup that recruiter's ass for intentionally misleading me. But I digress. How many times have we all heard, "My recruiter lied!?" :rofl

I think the Snipe's SRB's were at, like, 4-5k. :rofl
 
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jallman said:
It is pretty easy once you realize that it's the only choice you have. :shrug:
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Studies have shown that a change in diet, some four wheel drivin', and a Bud Light will have you scratching your balls like a straight guy in no time.
 
Navy Pride said:
I know that off the record the Commandant feels as we do......
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I know how the Commandant feels on and off the record. He is much more accomodating to the changing of times than you think. The Marine Corps, above all other branches, have always been a powerful force for momentum in terms of tactics, theories, intel, and social adaptation.

The latest CMC Bullets has just come out. It is version 20100409. Periodically, the CMC (Commandant of the Marine Corps) visits the bases and delivers a sort of "State of the Union" to the Marines (I saw him about three weeks ago). These visits are largely to guage the general concerns of the Marines. Aside from Afghanistan, the universal health care effect, PPE, and others, a hot topic was "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." These questions and concerns are placed in the CMC Bullets and released to the Marine Corps. It is not classified by any means, but considered FOUO (For Official Use Only) and not intended for public publications. So I'll just drop the part about DADT that was spoken of in front of some nasty media:


Q: Good morning, Sir. In the last couple of weeks, I've read a couple articles regrading your views on "Don't Ask, Don;t Tell." And being a public affairs officer, I'm not sure that I believe everything I read. So I'd like to know what your position is. Where you see the policy changes going in DOD? And do you think it's going to affect the Marine Corps? And if so, how?

CMC: I was really afraid that question wasn't going to come up (laughter). Thanks, Kathy. (Laughter). Ladies and Gentlemen, our president has spoken. Our Commander in Chief has said that he wants to have this law repealed by the Congress. And I think it's important that we all understand, and I suspect this audience does, there is a law; there is the DOD policy - an agreed-upon compromise by President Clinton, the Congress, and DOD in 1993. And the policy falls under the overall tent of the law.

When asked the question by the Congress to give a personal opinion - we are compelled to do that - and my comments to them were essentially, let's please stay focused on the important aspects of change and let's ask ourselves, as we view from the efforts of the working group going about, are we creating a better military able to fight the nation's wars? That's why we have a U.S. military. And in my belief, any change made ought to prosper that, not in some way detriment that. So I'll simply ask that that be our primary focus as we go downrange.

I was asked my personal opinion. I said, my personal opinion is that the current law works. I'm absolutely certain that we have young, homosexual men and women in the United States Marine Corps today who are doing a fantastic job. No one knows their proclivity because they have chosen to keep it private, as we keep private a lot of other things in our daily lives. And they're serving well and faithfully and will be very proud of having been a Marine as they leave the force.

But at this point, I will say that we await the results of the working group. I think it's going to be out some time towards the end of the year. And I think this will be a much more exhaustive and comprehensive study of the issue than has ever been conducted before. And we allw ill learn, I think, the results, really, across all the services of what they have to offer.

Secretary Gates has said he believes that if the evidence is compelling, and there are significant issues with it, that we will have opportunity to sit down with the President and give him our best military advice. And he, then, will decide either to continue to push or to say, okay, I see an issue here perhaps I didn't completely understand before based upon the effects of the working group. So that's where we are.
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The Commandant has reported that the overwhelming majority of Marines have very deep concerns when it comes to living with homosexuals in the barracks. We are the only branch that houses two to a room and this is for a purpose. When all others overly concerned themselves with the "quality of life" topic in the 90's, the Marine Corps weighed it against what we do best. And that is building loyalties, cohesion at small level units, and brotherhood. "Gays in the open" is a concern.
 
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MSgt said:
I know how the Commandant feels on and off the record. He is much more accomodating to the changing of times than you think. The Marine Corps, above all other branches, have always been a powerful force for momentum in terms of tactics, theories, intel, and social adaptation.

The Commandant has reported that the overwhelming majority of Marines have very deep concerns when it comes to living with homosexuals in the barracks. We are the only branch that houses two to a room and this is for a purpose. When all others overly concerned themselves with the "quality of life" topic in the 90's, the Marine Corps weighed it against what we do best. And that is building loyalties, cohesion at small level units, and brotherhood. "Gays in the open" is a concern.
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Can you explain how 'social adaptability' [within the Marines] driven by that momentum would have a problem with 'gays in the open'?


Paul
 
MSgt said:
I know how the Commandant feels on and off the record. He is much more accomodating to the changing of times than you think. The Marine Corps, above all other branches, have always been a powerful force for momentum in terms of tactics, theories, intel, and social adaptation.

The latest CMC Bullets has just come out. It is version 20100409. Periodically, the CMC (Commandant of the Marine Corps) visits the bases and delivers a sort of "State of the Union" to the Marines (I saw him about three weeks ago). These visits are largely to guage the general concerns of the Marines. Aside from Afghanistan, the universal health care effect, PPE, and others, a hot topic was "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." These questions and concerns are placed in the CMC Bullets and released to the Marine Corps. It is not classified by any means, but considered FOUO (For Official Use Only) and not intended for public publications. So I'll just drop the part about DADT that was spoken of in front of some nasty media:


The Commandant has reported that the overwhelming majority of Marines have very deep concerns when it comes to living with homosexuals in the barracks. We are the only branch that houses two to a room and this is for a purpose. When all others overly concerned themselves with the "quality of life" topic in the 90's, the Marine Corps weighed it against what we do best. And that is building loyalties, cohesion at small level units, and brotherhood. "Gays in the open" is a concern.
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Thanks for the update from the CMC...He seems like a straight shooter to me...You talk about 2 men to a room and aboard ship we might have 100 men in a berthing compartment not much bigger then a room.....I just hope the enlisted men who it affects have a say in the decision...All these Liberals in DP say sure go for it.......Most of them the policy does no affect....No skin off their ass........I wonder how they would feel if they had to serve aboard ship with long periods at sea under those conditions...........

One more thing if Bush was still president and it was his policy to keep DADT and a bunch of liberals wanted to change it what the SECDEF and the Joint Chiefs would say.........Guess we will never know...........
 
gunner said:
Can you explain how 'social adaptability' [within the Marines] driven by that momentum would have a problem with 'gays in the open'?


Paul
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It comes down to professionalism.

I believe that the majority of anti-gay cases will come from outside the Marine Corps, but that the most extreme issues may come from it. It may look much like the hazing issue in the 90s. Most cases were coming from the other branches in general, but the most extreme came from the Corps because of the culture. In terms of status, the Marine Corps has a certain "manhood" attached to it. There's a certain level of alpha male that isn't found in other places. Therefore, we are talking about a cultural shift in identity for us. Think about what Hollwood has portrayed as the stereotypical homosexual. Now put a set of Dress Blues on it. The term "homosexual Marine" just doesn't fit in a lot of minds. But there's a certain kind of homosexual that joins and would join even under "serving openly." They are not the effeminate stereotype.

From blacks to women, the adaptation process in the Marine Corps hasn't been without imperfection. But because Marines are bred to obey orders and to enforce orders while keeping their personal opinions out of it, they will assimilate to the new policies easier. Personal opinion will be relegated to conduct off duty, which is where the racial cases of the past took place. However, the leadership, from General to Corporal, will deal with it because that is their job.

If the President makes it so, the Comandant will print the orders. Everyone below will have a job to do.
 
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Navy Pride said:
Good to see some senior officers speaking up on this insanity


http://www.debatepolitics.com/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=130

March 26 2010


CNN) -- The Marine Corps' top officer says he would want to avoid housing gay and heterosexual Marines in the same rooms on base if the ban on gays openly serving in the military is lifted.

"I would not ask our Marines to live with someone that's homosexual if we can possibly avoid it," Marine Commandant Gen. James Conway told a Web site in an interview posted Friday. "And to me that means we've got to build [barracks] that have single rooms."

Some senior members of the military, however, have expressed concern over the impact of the ban's repeal on unit cohesion and morale, among other things
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Hey Navy, is that you speaking or PopEye???:rofl:rofl
 
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