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Marine officer: Gays, straights shouldn't share housing

Kelzie said:
That's a completely different scenario. Gay men and women have been doing that sort of thing their entire lives in front of the same gender. Men and women haven't been doing that in front of each other and aren't used to it. Thankfully, just because gay people can do it doesn't mean we have to break down all barriers.
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It's the same thing. What makes gays anymore discipline than anyother human being in history? Are you pushing some kind of superiority agenda here? How tolerant is that?
 
apdst said:
Do you speak for all the WM's in the Corps? I thinking, no.
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I never said I did. That's why I used the first person.

What should be the proper response to straight soldiers being harrassed by gay soldiers and gay soldiers being harrassed by straight soldiers, or gays harrassing gays be? Tell them they wanted to serve openly in the military, they got it, deal with it? And it's gonna happen, I don't care what fantasy land you live in that makes you believe it won't. We just had a gay congress critter step down for sexually harrassing a straight staffer for God's sake, so let's try to stick to reality rather than fantasy.
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The same response any accusations of sexual harrassment gets. It's happening now in the military, it doesn't seem to be crumbling around us yet.


That's a cheap shot. You don't know me. But, a kid like you isn't mature and experienced enough to see the big picture. You've been brainwashed into believing that if one disagrees with you, one must certainly be a racist, or a homophobe. At no time would be capable of considering that my concerns relate more to the safety of all soldiers and the overall unit cohesion and discipline of our armed forces along with their ability to effectively operate on the battlefield, instead of giving a rat's ass about whose gay and who ain't.
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Call it an educated guess...You have no idea what today's military can deal with cause you're out of touch. But I wouldn't call you a homophobe. I'm sure you actually believe that our military will collapse if gays are allowed to serve.


That argument was **** 15 minutes after it was contrived.
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Because...you don't like it?
 
apdst said:
It's the same thing. What makes gays anymore discipline than anyother human being in history? Are you pushing some kind of superiority agenda here? How tolerant is that?
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Well they're...in the military RIGHT NOW!!! :shock: Key in the scary music. I have never heard of any significant amount of same sex harrassment going on. I'm sure they can manage the same level of control when they are allowed to legally serve. Do you really think once they won't get kicked out the gays are going to run around groping people in the shower?
 
Kelzie said:
The same response any accusations of sexual harrassment gets. It's happening now in the military, it doesn't seem to be crumbling around us yet.
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It's the reason that males and females don't billet together.




Call it an educated guess...You have no idea what today's military can deal with cause you're out of touch. But I wouldn't call you a homophobe. I'm sure you actually believe that our military will collapse if gays are allowed to serve.
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Yeah, my 13 years didn't teach me a damn thing. How long did you serve in uniform? Has basic human behavior changed in the past few hundred years?




Because...you don't like it?
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No, because it regards race, not sex. You do know the difference. Yes?
 
Kelzie said:
Well they're...in the military RIGHT NOW!!! :shock: Key in the scary music.
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Another lame assed argument. If they're already serving, then why abolish DADT? Everything is cool like it. Right?





I have never heard of any significant amount of same sex harrassment going on.
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Are you referring to gay/straight harrassment?


I'm sure they can manage the same level of control when they are allowed to legally serve. Do you really think once they won't get kicked out the gays are going to run around groping people in the shower?
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The same level of control? You just made my argument for me. Thank you!!
 
apdst said:
It's the reason that males and females don't billet together.
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I'm not saying people of the same gender should billet together.

Yeah, my 13 years didn't teach me a damn thing. How long did you serve in uniform? Has basic human behavior changed in the past few hundred years?
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If you want to play the experience game, I just asked my husband, who's been in 17 years and counting, how he feels about it. He shrugged and said it's bound to happen. Not exactly the panic you seem to be feeling is it?

And I would say that tolerance for gays has changed a great deal just in the last decade.


No, because it regards race, not sex. You do know the difference. Yes?
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Actually what it involves is the belief that cohesion in the military will suffer because of intolerance. Make more sense?
 
Kelzie said:
I'm not saying people of the same gender should billet together.
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People of opposite sexual preference shouldn't share billets, either. At least, they should have an option and be forced to share billets.



If you want to play the experience game, I just asked my husband, who's been in 17 years and counting, how he feels about it. He shrugged and said it's bound to happen. Not exactly the panic you seem to be feeling is it?
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Ask him how he's going to feel when a gay/straight soldiers files a sexual harrassment complaint and he has to take time away from more important matters to deal with it. Ask him what he's going to do when a gay/straight soldiers excercises his/her right and demands different billets.

Better yet, how are you going to feel when your hubby becomes a casualty, because cohesion and discipline broke down in his unit? Is it going to be worth it?

And I would say that tolerance for gays has changed a great deal just in the last decade.
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Not among alphas it hasn't. And, like it, or not, most service members are alphas.


Actually what it involves is the belief that cohesion in the military will suffer because of intolerance. Make more sense?
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Label it however you want, but unit cohesion take priority over your political agenda.
 
apdst said:
People of opposite sexual preference shouldn't share billets, either. At least, they should have an option and be forced to share billets.
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They already do share billets and have for years. Have you noticed much of a problem?

Ask him how he's going to feel when a gay/straight soldiers files a sexual harrassment complaint and he has to take time away from more important matters to deal with it. Ask him what he's going to do when a gay/straight soldiers excercises his/her right and demands different billets.
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He's very busy saving the galaxy right now. If you want to have a conversation with him, ask him next time he comes on. He goes by the name MSgt.

Better yet, how are you going to feel when your hubby becomes a casualty, because cohesion and discipline broke down in his unit? Is it going to be worth it?
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Oh lord with the dramatics. :roll: If I thought it was going to happen I wouldn't support it now would I?

Not among alphas it hasn't. And, like it, or not, most service members are alphas.
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I am well aware of that. You're assuming "alphas" have a problem with gay people just because way back in the day when you served they did. I deal with Marines on a daily basis and they have no problems with homosexuals from what I've seen.


Label it however you want, but unit cohesion take priority over your political agenda.
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You're assuming it's an either/or but offering no evidence.
 
Navy Pride said:
Like I said its easy to say.........Typical liberal stance........It does not affect you.....You don't have to worry about a gay guy coming on to you.......It happens....I have seen it.................
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Is this how fragile your sexuality is? Seriously this reads like a line out of Invasion of Body Snatchers.
 
Kelzie said:
They already do share billets and have for years. Have you noticed much of a problem?
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In fact, I have. I had to court martial one soldier and discharge another soldier because of gay/straight sexual harrassment.



[/quote]He's very busy saving the galaxy right now. If you want to have a conversation with him, ask him next time he comes on. He goes by the name MSgt.[/quote]

:rofl...I already know what he thinks of the issue. Sorry to say, it doesn't paralell what you've been saying.



Oh lord with the dramatics. :roll: If I thought it was going to happen I wouldn't support it now would I?
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Actually, I think that since it's not your ass on the line, you fail to understand.



You're assuming it's an either/or but offering no evidence.
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Proving something that hasn't happened yet is impossible. Time will prove me right.
 
apdst said:
In fact, I have. I had to court martial one soldier and discharge another soldier because of gay/straight sexual harrassment.
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And how many have you had to discipline for run of the mill sexual harassment? I'm going to guess much more.

:rofl...I already know what he thinks of the issue. Sorry to say, it doesn't paralell what you've been saying.
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Ah yes. I'm sure you know my husband better than I do. I just asked him again. Direct quote "It's inevitable. Fight it all you want, it's going to happen anyway. In time, everything's not an issue." And now he's annoyed cause the Empire got the upper hand while he was answering.


Actually, I think that since it's not your ass on the line, you fail to understand.
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It's not yours either. And since I am in constant contact with today's Marines who are you to say you know them better?

Proving something that hasn't happened yet is impossible. Time will prove me right.
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I'm sure it will. Luckily we'll only have to wait a year or so. And you can bet when it happens I'll drag this thread out and do the told ya so dance. Make sure you're still around.
 
Kelzie said:
And how many have you had to discipline for run of the mill sexual harassment? I'm going to guess much more.
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Nary-a-one. I was in a combat arms unit and didn't have female soldiers to get sexually harrassed. I did have one of my soldiers court martialed in Germany for 134 counts of intent to rape, because he was caught in a female billet.



Ah yes. I'm sure you know my husband better than I do. I just asked him again. Direct quote "It's inevitable. Fight it all you want, it's going to happen anyway. In time, everything's not an issue." And now he's annoyed cause the Empire got the upper hand while he was answering.
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What are you even talking about? Did I ever claim that there's no way it's going to happen?




It's not yours either. And since I am in constant contact with today's Marines who are you to say you know them better?
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LOL...constant contact? Being a dependent and being in the service are two different things.



I'm sure it will. Luckily we'll only have to wait a year or so. And you can bet when it happens I'll drag this thread out and do the told ya so dance. Make sure you're still around.
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What do you expect to prove? That I said it will never happen? I never said that. However, when the sexual harrassment cases go through the roof and assaults skyrocket, I'm for damn sure going to drag this bad boy out. Make sure you're still here.
 
apdst said:
Nary-a-one. I was in a combat arms unit and didn't have female soldiers to get sexually harrassed. I did have one of my soldiers court martialed in Germany for 134 counts of intent to rape, because he was caught in a female billet.
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You know my point. Please don't make me hunt down the statistics for male/female sexual harrasment in the military. Young people are always going to harrass each other and even if gays could be open, there's always going to be proportionally more cases of hetero harrasment. I know one gay Marine couple. Even if they could be open, they wouldn't tell anyone that would have a problem with it. I have a feeling most gays that serve in the military are the same way.

What are you even talking about? Did I ever claim that there's no way it's going to happen?
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No...okay I asked if he had a problem with it. He said "eh." Though I really think at this point he's trying to ignore me. :lol:

LOL...constant contact? Being a dependent and being in the service are two different things.
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Generally I would agree with you if my contact with the Marines was limited to Family Days. I probably interact with more than 200 of them though on a daily basis. So does my flaming co-worker and much to the detriment of my ego, I think the Marines like him better.

What do you expect to prove? That I said it will never happen? I never said that. However, when the sexual harrassment cases go through the roof and assaults skyrocket, I'm for damn sure going to drag this bad boy out. Make sure you're still here.
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It's a date then.
 
Kelzie said:
You know my point. Please don't make me hunt down the statistics for male/female sexual harrasment in the military. Young people are always going to harrass each other and even if gays could be open, there's always going to be proportionally more cases of hetero harrasment.
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I would love to see the info proving that.

I know one gay Marine couple. Even if they could be open, they wouldn't tell anyone that would have a problem with it. I have a feeling most gays that serve in the military are the same way.
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That is why I'm in favor of leaving DADT in place and just not discharging gay service members. I'm more tolerant than you thought. Huh?



No...okay I asked if he had a problem with it. He said "eh." Though I really think at this point he's trying to ignore me. :lol:
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I think he's trying to keep the peace. I don't discuss politics with my wife, either, for the same reasons...:rofl



Generally I would agree with you if my contact with the Marines was limited to Family Days. I probably interact with more than 200 of them though on a daily basis. So does my flaming co-worker and much to the detriment of my ego, I think the Marines like him better.
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You're still not serving within an actual unit. There's alot you're missing.



It's a date then.
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Don't call it a date, your 'ole man might whip my ass...:rofl
 
apdst said:
I would love to see the info proving that.
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It's hard to get statistics for something that hasn't happened yet. I promise, as soon as they come out I'll get them to you.

That is why I'm in favor of leaving DADT in place and just not discharging gay service members. I'm more tolerant than you thought. Huh?
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Soo...what would that look like exactly? I mean, how is that any different from allowing them to serve openly?


I think he's trying to keep the peace. I don't discuss politics with my wife, either, for the same reasons...:rofl
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No, that's not it. We have some rockin' fights about politics. He's just really...absorbed right now in defeating the Empire.

You're still not serving within an actual unit. There's alot you're missing.
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Not to bicker, but even if I was I doubt it'd much matter unless I was a guy. Women are generally much less grossed out by homosexuality.

Don't call it a date, your 'ole man might whip my ass...:rofl
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It's a committment to a discussion at a future point in time then.;)
 
Kelzie said:
Meh. They said the same thing about allowing blacks in the units with the whites. There'll be a big broohahah and then it will die down and no one will even remember what the fuss was about. This too shall pass.
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That is a red herring and a copout..there is no comparison between gays and blacks......When gays do their 400 years of slavery come see me.......
 
apdst said:
Most of the vets on this forum have told you it will. Serving and retired general and line officers are telling you it will. But, oh no, your zero military experience tells you that we're all wrong.

I don't get Liberals. Once ya'll make up ya'lls minds that the sun rises in the west, there's no getting through to you.
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Actually, that is not true. The vets on this board are pretty divided about what will happen. You and NP are the only really hardline vets against this, me and Roguenuke are pretty hardline in favor. Sorry, but factually, you are again in the wrong. Guess that sun is rising in the west in your world and their is no getting through to you.
 
Kelzie said:
If you want to play the experience game, I just asked my husband, who's been in 17 years and counting, how he feels about it. He shrugged and said it's bound to happen. Not exactly the panic you seem to be feeling is it?
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Really? Would not have guessed that, but in a way I guess I am not surprised. I don't tend to agree with him on a whole lot, but he is pretty reasonable usually.
 
Navy Pride said:
That is a red herring and a copout..there is no comparison between gays and blacks......When gays do their 400 years of slavery come see me.......
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They were/are both being treated like second-class citizens by our military.








And how do you know that gays aren't well-endowed? :rofl
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
They were/are both being treated like second-class citizens by our military.








And how do you know that gays aren't well-endowed? :rofl
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While you are right in that there are points for comparison, Navy is right too in a way, though it hurts his overall point. Allowing gays to serve in the military is not going to be like letting blacks serve. I have heard some of the horror stories from early integration days from people who lived it in the navy. It's not going to be like that, at all. Society and the military are much more ready to accept gays as just people than they where to being ready to accept blacks as just people.

AS far as being well endowed, we need Jallman here so we can check.
 
Redress said:
While you are right in that there are points for comparison, Navy is right too in a way, though it hurts his overall point. Allowing gays to serve in the military is not going to be like letting blacks serve. I have heard some of the horror stories from early integration days from people who lived it in the navy. It's not going to be like that, at all. Society and the military are much more ready to accept gays as just people than they where to being ready to accept blacks as just people.

AS far as being well endowed, we need Jallman here so we can check.
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At the end of the day, this is about treating people who are "different", differently.
 
Redress said:
Really? Would not have guessed that, but in a way I guess I am not surprised. I don't tend to agree with him on a whole lot, but he is pretty reasonable usually.
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Reasonable? Are we talking about two different guys? :mrgreen:
 
Kelzie said:
Reasonable? Are we talking about two different guys? :mrgreen:
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Nah. I have a ton of respect for him, and have asked for his opinion more than once. He is very set in his opinions, but they are derived from thought, even if they are wrong.
 
Redress said:
Nah. I have a ton of respect for him, and have asked for his opinion more than once. He is very set in his opinions, but they are derived from thought, even if they are wrong.
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You've summed up the basis in all our arguments in two sentences.:lol:
 
Redress said:
Actually, that is not true. The vets on this board are pretty divided about what will happen. You and NP are the only really hardline vets against this, me and Roguenuke are pretty hardline in favor. Sorry, but factually, you are again in the wrong. Guess that sun is rising in the west in your world and their is no getting through to you.
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You couldn't more wrong. There are more vets here that are saying the same thing I'm saying than the other way around.

BTW, point out where I say that I'm against gays serving in the military, open, or otherwise. Perhaps you should read what I'm actually posting, rather than seeing what you want to see?
 
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