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New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

Conservative said:
I do indeed understand your point but this bill solves none of that and adds more that the taxpayer will have to cover. The fines for those that do not purchase healthcare do not offset the costs of healthcare for the new individuals covered, most of whom have preexisting conditions that are most costly. Don't you understand that?
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Your own article says that in the long run it may well offset the cost. You posted the article.
 
Boo Radley said:
Your own article says that in the long run it may well offset the cost. You posted the article.
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Why did you ignore the short term cost increases which are more likely to happen because long range forecasting has never been accurate? Again why the passion for this healthcare bill? What is in it for you and your family?
 
Conservative said:
Now won't that be just wonderful? Don't you have an concept of history or reality? Like far too many personal responsibility doesn't resonate in your world and I am sure like many this is about someone else not you. If you truly cared so much about someone else, you wouldn't be supporting a party that keeps people dependent and has to use victims.

Everytime I see people like you posting comments promoting the Public Option, I always remember Glenn Beck's book, Arguing with Idiots. Nothing is ever going to change your mind and no matter how unsuccessful govt. is in solving social problems, arrogance prevails and liberals promote another group throwing money at the problem.
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I know that most of the country wants a public option from just about every poll that has asked if they want one, and aren't the GOP always talking about how they want what the majoirty wants?
 
CriticalThought said:
I know that most of the country wants a public option from just about every poll that has asked if they want one, and aren't the GOP always talking about how they want what the majoirty wants?
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Not sure what polls you are looking at but if that is true then the public is as historically challenged as you are? How will a public option be funded or do you even care? The support for the healthcare bill still has majority disaproval.

April 15, 2010
Americans' Views on Healthcare Law Remain StableLatest poll shows 45% saying passage of law was a good thing, 49% a bad thingby Frank Newport

PRINCETON, NJ -- Americans remain divided on the merits of the new healthcare law, with 45% saying it was a good thing that Congress passed the legislation and 49% saying it was a bad thing. This assessment from an April 8-11 Gallup poll shows little change from two weeks ago.
 
Conservative said:
Why did you ignore the short term cost increases which are more likely to happen because long range forecasting has never been accurate? Again why the passion for this healthcare bill? What is in it for you and your family?
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Because long range matters more. Nothing special about short term. Often you have to lay out short term costs in order to get long term gain. So, while not a certainty by any means, there really isn't any magic bullet that gets us there without laying some cost first.
 
Conservative said:
Why did you ignore the short term cost increases which are more likely to happen because long range forecasting has never been accurate? Again why the passion for this healthcare bill? What is in it for you and your family?
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I'll take that last question on. For me, these were the most important issues:

  • Elimination of pre-existing conditions.
  • Restriction lifted that young adults/older teens over the age of 18 must be full-time college students (up to age 26) in order to remain on their parent's insurance.
  • All basic insurance policies will have the same level of standard coverage.
  • More options will be available via high risk pools and co-ops (health insurance exchanges) to obtain insurance rather than a single or small group of insurance companies being the only options because they are the major insurance providers in an area/state.
  • Cap annual out-of-pocket medical expenses at $5,000 per individual and $10,000 per family (starting in 2013).

Those were the main things that I was personnally concerned with. I've linked two articles that I believe will help people to better understand how some cost containments may work in the long-term and how certain measures in the health care reform bill my benefit individuals and their families.

Newsweek, "How Health Care Reform Reduces the Deficit in 5 Not-So-Easy Steps," by By Ezra Klein dated March 21, 2010

Miami Herald News, "Health care bills would limit out-of-pocket costs," By David Lightman dated October 28, 2009 (Note: Old article, but most of the provisions mentioned remain in the legistlation as passed)
 
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Conservative said:
Not sure what polls you are looking at but if that is true then the public is as historically challenged as you are? How will a public option be funded or do you even care? The support for the healthcare bill still has majority disaproval.

April 15, 2010
Americans' Views on Healthcare Law Remain StableLatest poll shows 45% saying passage of law was a good thing, 49% a bad thingby Frank Newport

PRINCETON, NJ -- Americans remain divided on the merits of the new healthcare law, with 45% saying it was a good thing that Congress passed the legislation and 49% saying it was a bad thing. This assessment from an April 8-11 Gallup poll shows little change from two weeks ago.
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Most Americans did not support the health care legislation, but over a majority did support the public option. After all that bull****ting the GOP did about doing what the majority of Americans want I think it is clear what path they need to take if they want to maintain even an ounce of credibility.

Most support public option for health insurance, poll finds - washingtonpost.com
New Poll: 77 Percent Support "Choice" Of Public Option
Poll Finds Most Doctors Support Public Option : NPR
FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Public Support for the Public Option

So either you conservatives need to put up or shut up.

You guys don't give a **** about doing what the people want or lowering costs, you only want to see the Democrats fail. That is why the GOP has become so pathetic.
 
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CriticalThought said:
Most Americans did not support the health care legislation, but over a majority did support the public option. After all that bull****ting the GOP did about doing what the majority of Americans want I think it is clear what path they need to take if they want to maintain even an ounce of credibility.

Most support public option for health insurance, poll finds - washingtonpost.com
New Poll: 77 Percent Support "Choice" Of Public Option
Poll Finds Most Doctors Support Public Option : NPR
FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Public Support for the Public Option

So either you conservatives need to put up or shut up.

You guys don't give a **** about doing what the people want or lowering costs, you only want to see the Democrats fail. That is why the GOP has become so pathetic.
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First of all the polls you cited aren't credible IMO nor do they matter. Tell me why you believe the govt. is the answer to the healthcare problem and why you believe they can run healthcare better than they have run SS, Medicare, or any other entitlement program?
 
Conservative said:
First of all the polls you cited aren't credible IMO nor do they matter. Tell me why you believe the govt. is the answer to the healthcare problem and why you believe they can run healthcare better than they have run SS, Medicare, or any other entitlement program?
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You don't know what a public option is.

More polls!

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...e_reform_especially_among_democrats_collapses
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5B20OL20091203

Let me know when I provide a "credible" one. But it is something you don't want to hear, so I doubt that will be anytime soon.

Why do you hate America by refusing to support a public option?
 
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CriticalThought said:
You don't know what a public option is.

More polls!

Without Public Option, Enthusiasm for Health Care Reform, Especially Among Democrats, Collapses - Rasmussen Reports
Most in U.S. want public health option: poll | Reuters

Let me know when I provide a "credible" one. But it is something you don't want to hear, so I doubt that will be anytime soon.

Why do you hate America by refusing to support a public option?
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How about the Pubic er Public "Option" is anything but that. it was purely designed to undercut private insurers and put them out of business. Result?!? so much for the Public "Option"
 
Bassman said:
How about the Pubic er Public "Option" is anything but that. it was purely designed to undercut private insurers and put them out of business. Result?!? so much for the Public "Option"
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Most of America wants a public option. It doesn't sound like you have much faith in America. Why are you an America hater? What has America done to you?
 
CriticalThought said:
Most of America wants a public option. It doesn't sound like you have much faith in America. Why are you an America hater? What has America done to you?
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On the contrary, your side is what hates America and desires to "put America in its 'place'"! Just because they claim they want a public "mandatory government healtchare" doesn't make it right!
 
Bassman said:
On the contrary, your side is what hates America and desires to "put America in its 'place'"! Just because they claim they want a public "mandatory government healtchare" doesn't make it right!
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I'm with the majority in supporting a public option. You are a part of the minority who hates America so much that it doesn't support a public option. Why do you hate America so much?

Also, you clearly don't know what a public option is either.
 
CriticalThought said:
I'm with the majority in supporting a public option. You are a part of the minority who hates America so much that it doesn't support a public option. Why do you hate America so much?

Also, you clearly don't know what a public option is either.
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Listen, Skippy. I just didn't fall off the turnip truck. A public "we'll kill all private insurance so all you'll be left with is government-run healthcare" non-option is just that. another way for Big Daddy Government to take over a sixth of the US economy.
 
Bassman said:
Listen, Skippy. I just didn't fall off the turnip truck. A public "we'll kill all private insurance so all you'll be left with is government-run healthcare" non-option is just that. another way for Big Daddy Government to take over a sixth of the US economy.
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So most of America is wrong? When most Americans have enough confidence in the private sector that it won't be out competed by the government, you have some extraordinary evidence that indicates otherwise? Perhaps you have examples of private organizations that have been out competed by the government? What makes you so much smarter than a majority of Americans, including the doctors who actually work in the field? Where does your special insight come from aside form a fear of the big bad gumment?

Or maybe you just hate America.
 
CriticalThought said:
So most of America is wrong? When most Americans have enough confidence in the private sector that it won't be out competed by the government, you have some extraordinary evidence that indicates otherwise? Perhaps you have examples of private organizations that have been out competed by the government? What makes you so much smarter than a majority of Americans, including the doctors who actually work in the field? Where does your special insight come from aside form a fear of the big bad gumment?

Or maybe you just hate America.
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The government's piss poor track record when it comes to welfare spending is legendary. I will not hand over MY health to a government asshat who thinks they know better than either myself or my doctor, capiche??
 
Bassman said:
The government's piss poor track record when it comes to welfare spending is legendary. I will not hand over MY health to a government asshat who thinks they know better than either myself or my doctor, capiche??
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I'm sorry, what does any of that have to do with a public option? Oh wait! It doesn't. You just hate America and wish to deny what a majority of Americans want.
 
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CriticalThought said:
I'm sorry, what does the any of that have to do with a public option? Oh wait! It doesn't. You just hate America and wish to deny what a majority of Americans want.
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No, I mean what I say! Just because a "majority" (depending on what poll you read) of Americans want sulphuric acid, doesn't mean that it is good for them, nor the country in the long run. Hey Schmuck, are you one of those types who think that everyone has to drink the Liberal kool aid??
 
Bassman said:
No, I mean what I say! Just because a "majority" (depending on what poll you read) of Americans want sulphuric acid, doesn't mean that it is good for them, nor the country in the long run. Hey Schmuck, are you one of those types who think that everyone has to drink the Liberal kool aid??
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I actually agree that popularity alone doesn't equal truth. However, can you show me how improved access won't be better for people on the whole?
 
Conservative said:
First of all the polls you cited aren't credible IMO nor do they matter. Tell me why you believe the govt. is the answer to the healthcare problem and why you believe they can run healthcare better than they have run SS, Medicare, or any other entitlement program?
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If there is a point in the polls, it is that some knowledgeable people don't share your view. What you should be asking is why? And attempting to address that.
 
Bassman said:
No, I mean what I say! Just because a "majority" (depending on what poll you read) of Americans want sulphuric acid, doesn't mean that it is good for them, nor the country in the long run. Hey Schmuck, are you one of those types who think that everyone has to drink the Liberal kool aid??
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No, I'm the guy who has listened too many times to conservatives on this forum making argumentum ad populum to support their views and declaring anyone who doesn't support them to be an America hater. I just thought it would fun to turn the tables since the public option was widely supported by virtually every poll. Furthermore, most conservatives don't know what the public option was, despite being supported by 73% of America's doctors. No one reputable has made a valid argument that a public option could out compete private insurers, and so it is clear that you have no idea what you talking about, and the best you could pull off was to stick blindly to your ideology.

In case you haven't caught on, I was making fun of you and rather than call me out on it, you replied several times and tried to throw in red herring remarks to change the subject. It was hilarious. I had to stop because I was starting to feel sorry for you.
 
Boo Radley said:
I actually agree that popularity alone doesn't equal truth. However, can you show me how improved access won't be better for people on the whole?
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Because then quality of care drops like a rock! And the only reason why the US was the leader in new breakthroughs in medicine is the way the healthcare system was set up. Not anymore.
 
Bassman said:
Because then quality of care drops like a rock! And the only reason why the US was the leader in new breakthroughs in medicine is the way the healthcare system was set up. Not anymore.
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Can you provide evidence it is likely to drop. Not silly declarations that it will, but actual evidence. I ask because I see no reason why it should drop. Nothings really changed that should hurt care.
 
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