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New health insurance requirement.....was a GOP idea

Catawba said:
You are on to our plan! No fooling Conservative huh? We are out to destroy the country. LOL!

If you say it, it must be true, despite an utter lack of evidence! :roll:
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Utter lack of evidence? 3.8 trillion dollar govt? 15 million unemployed Americans all in need of govt. help? 50% of the population not paying federal income taxes? Takeover of GM/Chrysler, 800 billion stimulus plan that stimulated nothing but expansion of govt.?

You don't seem to have a clue as to the real role of the govt. Failure is never an option in a liberal world and to prevent it all it takes is buying people out.

"Your" President has no concept as to the role of the U.S. Govt. and from I can see neither do you. Where does it stop?

I am not a conspiracy theorist but what Obama has done is unsustainable, does nothing to promote the private sector and continues to create victims. You make light of it but a govt. big enough to give you all that you need is also a govt. big enough to take it all away. Nothing this President has done promotes the private sector but instead demonizes it. It demonizes private greed while ignoring govt. greed. Private greed can be stopped by the consumer stop buying but govt. greed can never be stopped and that is what we have now.
 
Conservative said:
I am not a conspiracy theorist but what Obama has done is unsustainable, does nothing to promote the private sector and continues to create victims. You make light of it but a govt. big enough to give you all that you need is also a govt. big enough to take it all away. Nothing this President has done promotes the private sector but instead demonizes it. It demonizes private greed while ignoring govt. greed. Private greed can be stopped by the consumer stop buying but govt. greed can never be stopped and that is what we have now.
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Glad to hear you are not a conspiracy theorist! LOL!
 
Catawba said:
Glad to hear you are not a conspiracy theorist! LOL!
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Typical, didn't expect you to respond to the content in my post thus not disappointed. the passion you have for this program says a lot about you and your lack of understanding or acceptance of who is running this govt.
 
LaMidRighter said:
But republicans didn't implement it, Democrats did. Nice try at putting out fires, but words < actions.....the Republican party sucks, but the Democrat party sucks harder and they own everything about this bill.
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So, it looks like Disneydude is preparing to share liberal blame for what will surely be a future nightmare (if not rescinded).
 
Deuce said:
I've been saying these sorts of things for the last year but nobody listens. "Look, these were all GOP ideas first!" is always met with "Nuh UH" or some really convoluted reasoning for why the GOP didn't actually support the bills they proposed.
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Perhaps Republican counsel advised that that plan was unconstitutional. Democrats would never "stoop so low" as to let the constitutionality of a bill keep them from passing legislation.
 
rebelbuc said:
Perhaps Republican counsel advised that that plan was unconstitutional.
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Perhaps.

Did they though?

Or did they say it was perfectly constitutional? That would be mighty inconvenient, huh?

So why don't you look it up?
 
Boo Radley said:
Again, that's your right. But very little that has passed should effect you if you are insured right now.
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You're totally wrong. If this bill is not found to be unconstitutional, which it should, you and I will both see what a bad idea this bill is... but liberals will never admit it.
 
rebelbuc said:
You're totally wrong. If this bill is not found to be unconstitutional, which it should, you and I will both see what a bad idea this bill is... but liberals will never admit it.
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I see nothing unconstitutional about it. And as insurance premiums have sky rocketed without reform, costing us more for less, and with many losing insurance as employers dropped coverage due to high costs, what exactly do you thing can be worse than what we have had for the last couple of decades?
 
rebelbuc said:
Perhaps Republican counsel advised that that plan was unconstitutional. Democrats would never "stoop so low" as to let the constitutionality of a bill keep them from passing legislation.
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What was unconstitutional about it?
 
Boo Radley said:
I see nothing unconstitutional about it. And as insurance premiums have sky rocketed without reform, costing us more for less, and with many losing insurance as employers dropped coverage due to high costs, what exactly do you thing can be worse than what we have had for the last couple of decades?
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Why have insurance premiums skyrocketed or do you even care? how do you cut the costs of healthcare without identifying all the costs? You want so badly to believe what you are told but you ignore what really is in that bill and how it does nothing to lower costs? Adding those with pre existing conditions increases costs not decreases them and adding weak penalties doesn't increase the pool of young people.

As for being unconstitutional, where is Constitutional forcing Americans to buy a personal responsibility program?
 
Conservative said:
Why have insurance premiums skyrocketed or do you even care? how do you cut the costs of healthcare without identifying all the costs? You want so badly to believe what you are told but you ignore what really is in that bill and how it does nothing to lower costs? Adding those with pre existing conditions increases costs not decreases them and adding weak penalties doesn't increase the pool of young people.

As for being unconstitutional, where is Constitutional forcing Americans to buy a personal responsibility program?
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Because we add those pre-existing conditions is why everyone has to have insurance. This buffers the cost and makes it so they don't have to raise premiums.

As for reasons, we've gone over this. At what point will you actually listen?
 
If their are free riders in HC, it would be better that all pay into the system and pay according to their income. Otherwise the bottom 25% will be locked out of HC.
 
Boo Radley said:
Because we add those pre-existing conditions is why everyone has to have insurance. This buffers the cost and makes it so they don't have to raise premiums.

As for reasons, we've gone over this. At what point will you actually listen?
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This bill doesn't force everyone to have insurance as there is an opt out provision. See, you don't even know what is in the bill nor do you care. This is about making you feel better without ever solving a problem. That is what today's Democrat Party does, suck people like you into their goal of creating dependence and like a good little sheep you buy it.

Still waiting for where it is Constitutional to force people to buy health insurance and please don't try the old "auto insurance' excuse.
 
Conservative said:
This bill doesn't force everyone to have insurance as there is an opt out provision. See, you don't even know what is in the bill nor do you care. This is about making you feel better without ever solving a problem. That is what today's Democrat Party does, suck people like you into their goal of creating dependence and like a good little sheep you buy it.

Still waiting for where it is Constitutional to force people to buy health insurance and please don't try the old "auto insurance' excuse.
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Please, try to pay attention. It requires enough to buy insurance that it allows for the cost of taking pre-existing conditions to be affordable.

As for the constitution, if you look, you will find the courts have allowed the government to do things not specifically spelled out in the constitution. You will need a better argument than the one you're trying to make.
 
Boo Radley said:
Please, try to pay attention. It requires enough to buy insurance that it allows for the cost of taking pre-existing conditions to be affordable.

As for the constitution, if you look, you will find the courts have allowed the government to do things not specifically spelled out in the constitution. You will need a better argument than the one you're trying to make.
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No, it is you that needs to pay attention, first of all it is not certain whether requiring anyone to buy a personal responsibility item is legal under our Constitution but even if it is the opt out provision by paying a minimal fine will suffice to prevent those invincible healthy individuals not to purchase insurance and simply pay the fine, leaving the unhealthy left in the system.

Find out why Anthem tried to raise premiums in California and get back to us. Hint, it had something to do with the healthy dropping their insurance.

You really need to think instead of feeling. Think about the mess we have with our govt. today and instead of demonizing private industry you need to demonize the waste, fraud and abuse perpetuated daily by out of control bureaucrats who spend "in the name" of compassiion yet NEVER get compassionate results.
 
Conservative said:
No, it is you that needs to pay attention, first of all it is not certain whether requiring anyone to buy a personal responsibility item is legal under our Constitution but even if it is the opt out provision by paying a minimal fine will suffice to prevent those invincible healthy individuals not to purchase insurance and simply pay the fine, leaving the unhealthy left in the system.

Find out why Anthem tried to raise premiums in California and get back to us. Hint, it had something to do with the healthy dropping their insurance.

You really need to think instead of feeling. Think about the mess we have with our govt. today and instead of demonizing private industry you need to demonize the waste, fraud and abuse perpetuated daily by out of control bureaucrats who spend "in the name" of compassiion yet NEVER get compassionate results.
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Nothing is certain, which is why we have courts. They'll decide this. But you can't claim with certainty that isn't constitutional when the courts have allowed such things before. The fine is money, and money would help pay for some of it. How many do you think can actually opt out?
 
Boo Radley said:
Nothing is certain, which is why we have courts. They'll decide this. But you can't claim with certainty that isn't constitutional when the courts have allowed such things before. The fine is money, and money would help pay for some of it. How many do you think can actually opt out?
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The fine is money and apparently that is all that matters to you, for someone else to pay for your own personal responsibility. The fine is nothing compared to the costs of health insurance under this new program. when the healthy opt out, pay the minimal fine leaving the chronic health problems in it what does that do to the cost of healthcare?

How many will opt out? Probably the same number that can afford insurance now but refuse to buy it. The opt out cost is less than the cost of insurance saving the healthy a lot of money. That number will be in the millions.
 
Conservative said:
The fine is money and apparently that is all that matters to you, for someone else to pay for your own personal responsibility. The fine is nothing compared to the costs of health insurance under this new program. when the healthy opt out, pay the minimal fine leaving the chronic health problems in it what does that do to the cost of healthcare?

How many will opt out? Probably the same number that can afford insurance now but refuse to buy it. The opt out cost is less than the cost of insurance saving the healthy a lot of money. That number will be in the millions.
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Dude, I have insurance. And as I keep pointing out, you're paying for others right now. Rather ineffectively to boot.
 
The provision actually was taken directly from Wyden's Healthy Americans Act -- the far-more innovative health care reform legislation he authored with Republican co-sponsors. In that bill there is also an individual mandate that would require Americans to purchase insurance coverage. But states that found the mandate objectionable could simply create and insert a new system in its place. All it would require is applying for a waiver from the Department of Health and Human Services, which has a 180-day window to confirm or deny such a waiver.

Wyden: Health Care Lawsuits Moot, States Can Opt Out Of Mandate

Could you be more specific about how individuals can opt out? Link something.
 
Boo Radley said:
Dude, I have insurance. And as I keep pointing out, you're paying for others right now. Rather ineffectively to boot.
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I am also paying for a bloated federal govt. that is out of control and not getting any smaller.

The costs I am paying now are considerably less than the costs I will be paying in the future for this bloated POS.
 
Boo Radley said:
The provision actually was taken directly from Wyden's Healthy Americans Act -- the far-more innovative health care reform legislation he authored with Republican co-sponsors. In that bill there is also an individual mandate that would require Americans to purchase insurance coverage. But states that found the mandate objectionable could simply create and insert a new system in its place. All it would require is applying for a waiver from the Department of Health and Human Services, which has a 180-day window to confirm or deny such a waiver.

Wyden: Health Care Lawsuits Moot, States Can Opt Out Of Mandate

Could you be more specific about how individuals can opt out? Link something.
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Read the bill, they pay the fine and opt out.
 
Boo Radley said:
Could you be more specific about how individuals can opt out? Link something.
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He means the fine you pay if you don't have coverage. It's essentially a way to opt out of buying insurance, though not a way to opt out of paying your share into the overall system, since the money will cover the government having to bail out the uninsured anyway.
 
misterman said:
He means the fine you pay if you don't have coverage. It's essentially a way to opt out of buying insurance, though not a way to opt out of paying your share into the overall system, since the money will cover the government having to bail out the uninsured anyway.
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Yes, you do pay a fine, but that's not exactly opting out. He seems to be implying something more.
 
Boo Radley said:
Yes, you do pay a fine, but that's not exactly opting out. He seems to be implying something more.
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I think that's exactly what he meant. And technically he's right. You can choose not to comply with the mandate...if you pay for it. It's an opt out in the narrow sense, but not in the broader sense.
 
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