• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Boy Scouts of America Keep Secret Dossier on Extensive Sex Abuses

Who funds boys and girls clubs?

B&GCA is heavily federally funded and also receives a lot of private donations.

4h clubs?

Not sure on this one...

It does not "need" a church, it just happens to have one that funds it. that is my point.

I think that BSA is heavily reliant upon their relationship with the LDS church, tbh.

Look the BSA seems to have stepped in it deeply.... But bigots coming in here and attacking a whole religion over this? Pathetic.

Agreed.
 
It's the poor Roman Catholic boy scouts you have to feel sorry for. At risk coming and going!
 
B&GCA is heavily federally funded and also receives a lot of private donations.


We provide free IT services one of the worst cities in this state. Bad things happen there too and they fingerprint.



I think that BSA is heavily reliant upon their relationship with the LDS church, tbh.


oh it is, but its not a LDS organization. they dont care which god you believe in, just no atheists.



:thumbs:
 
I think its abhorrent. But when some bigot comes in here and equates ALL of someones religion for the abhorrent behavior of a vast vast minority, I call those bigots out. :shrug:

:rofl You cannot have a vast minority. It is a contradiction in terms. :mrgreen:
 
:rofl You cannot have a vast minority. It is a contradiction in terms. :mrgreen:





As the Greatness that is the Good Reverend, accepted vernaculars do not apply to me. :pimpdaddy: :mrgreen:
 
oh it is, but its not a LDS organization.

It might as well be. You don't know what you're talking about here. I suggest you check it out before continuing with your assumptions.

The Mormon Church, the largest sponsor of Boy Scout troops in the U.S., is fiercely opposed to admitting homosexuals and has stated that it will end its nine -decade-long affiliation if gays can join. This would mean the departure of more than 412,000 Scouts who are sponsored by the Mormons -- about twelve percent of the organization's membership - and the loss of massive organized adult support.
BSA Discrimination.org:Home -> BSA & Gays -> Articles on BSA/Gays -> Struggle for the Soul of the BSA

Without the financial support of the LDS church, BSA could not survive. BSA also follows LDS' lead on badge requirements, training and even ceremonies. BSA does not decide on anything that LDS has not approved.
 
No it is not. Boy Scouts are expected to be religious, not necessarily Christian. Most scout masters will turn a blind eye to this along with homosexuality.
You can be disingenuous and intellectually dishonest all you want.

These situations will arise whenever adults are left alone with children like they often are in scouts and other youth organizations. Religion is irrelevant.
No, religion is not irrelevant. Especially since we are talking about a religious organization.
 
It might as well be. You don't know what you're talking about here. I suggest you check it out before continuing with your assumptions.



You say "it might as well be" indicating that it is not, as I stated. So if you are going to suggest I "don't know what" I "am talking about" perhaps you shouldn't confirm my absolute correctness prior to suggesting I am misinformed.

It would look less silly. ;)

BSA Discrimination.org:Home -> BSA & Gays -> Articles on BSA/Gays -> Struggle for the Soul of the BSA

Without the financial support of the LDS church, BSA could not survive. BSA also follows LDS' lead on badge requirements, training and even ceremonies. BSA does not decide on anything that LDS has not approved.


Wow. Should we go to moveon.org for an objective view of republicans? :doh
 
BSA says without LDS funding it could not continue. LDS is by far the largest donor to the program. LDS has come right out and told BSA that if they EVER allow gay leaders they will pull their funding and start their own Boy Scouts type program. BSA has had financial problems for years. Many councils have sold off all kinds of assets, including camps that have been in BSA for years to get money to stay afloat... even with LDS' funding.

I wonder why BSA has been floundering? Could it be too many parents are afraid? Could it be too many parents are too busy working to pay the mortgage to be involved? Could it be the religious aspect? Maybe all that and more?

It's too bad the BSA can't change with the times due to it's Christian foundation.
 
I wonder why BSA has been floundering? Could it be too many parents are afraid? Could it be too many parents are too busy working to pay the mortgage to be involved? Could it be the religious aspect? Maybe all that and more?

It's too bad the BSA can't change with the times due to it's Christian foundation.

They have been suffering from the same things many other organizations do. Kids have many more activities to participate in these days. Some may shy away from it due to the religious aspect as much as anything else. Many areas have a shortage of adults willing to be leaders. It takes more time for adults than most activities. Adults must go to Leader Training, Leader meetings, Pack and Troop meetings and on and on. There's a running joke that "It only takes one hour a week." :lol: Scouting is not like a baseball league. Most times Cub Scouts units don't like it when a parent simply drops off their son and leaves. We used to joke that BSA stands for "Baby Sitters of America". The catch-22 here is that we don't want certain parents at the meetings and do want others. Boy Scouts is different. It is boy-run, or should be. Also, single parent families, with more than one child, is another challenge and there are more and more of them.

When a boy joins, especially at the Cub Scout level, the parents are "encouraged" to be a leader or take an active role. You know, it's the many hands philosophy. There is also a huge and constant push from Council to create new units. When that happens, it can draw boys away from existing units. They get funding based on # of units as well as # of boys. The pressure is enormous. I, and my fellow Cub Masters and Committee Chairs, used to get in fierce arguments with the "professionals" about this. They would want to start a new unit as close as one mile away.

So, all of that certainly does keep many families from joining.

Re: the religious aspect: No particular religion is pushed. At least it's not supposed to be! Both the Cubs and Boy Scouts programs do have religious badges they can earn. There are many requirements set for many religions. And if a boy's religion doesn't have a badge set up he can work with his leaders to create requirements for his family's religion.

However, religion and Christianity, is never taught or pushed. At least in non-LDS units. Obviously, they are different.

After the SCOTUS decision that said BSA is a private org and has the right to set its member policies excluding gays (in previous link) many families pulled their boys and it has effected membership ever since. It's a stupid, discriminatory policy. But, LDS doesn't care. If membership shrinks, they don't care. They will never change that policy.

Yes, the program is amazing. But, the politics of it suck. My boys got a lot out of it.
 
You say "it might as well be" indicating that it is not, as I stated. So if you are going to suggest I "don't know what" I "am talking about" perhaps you shouldn't confirm my absolute correctness prior to suggesting I am misinformed.

Simply clarifying your statement. To say, "It is not an LDS organization" is not 100% accurate, as I tried to show.

Wow. Should we go to moveon.org for an objective view of republicans?

Per usual, you like to attack the source. It happens to be very accurate. And yes, I would suggest you go to MoveOn to learn about Repubs because Repubs can't be trusted.

If you find something wrong with the content of the link then by all means... spew.
 
Last edited:
You can be disingenuous and intellectually dishonest all you want.

How am I being dishonest?

No, religion is not irrelevant. Especially since we are talking about a religious organization.

So organizations that have young people interacting alone with older people aren't going to attract pedophiles? Now call me some Bible-thumping nut job all you want, but that seems to be a pretty big factor in attracting pedos, to me. I'm not really sure where religion falls into this. Are abusive uncles all Christian? Please, show me evidence that the abuse took place because the BSA is a "Christian" organization and not the conventional wisdom that pedos are attracted to youth organizations in general.
 
Religion cannot be irrelevant in an organisation that denies membership to atheists.
 
Religion cannot be irrelevant in an organisation that denies membership to atheists.

I never denied that. It was in response to:

Well, it is a Christian organization after all. Did you expect some different outcome than other Christian organizations where religious men can be alone with boys?
 
They have been suffering from the same things many other organizations do. Kids have many more activities to participate in these days. Some may shy away from it due to the religious aspect as much as anything else. Many areas have a shortage of adults willing to be leaders. It takes more time for adults than most activities. Adults must go to Leader Training, Leader meetings, Pack and Troop meetings and on and on. There's a running joke that "It only takes one hour a week." :lol: Scouting is not like a baseball league. Most times Cub Scouts units don't like it when a parent simply drops off their son and leaves. We used to joke that BSA stands for "Baby Sitters of America". The catch-22 here is that we don't want certain parents at the meetings and do want others. Boy Scouts is different. It is boy-run, or should be. Also, single parent families, with more than one child, is another challenge and there are more and more of them.

When a boy joins, especially at the Cub Scout level, the parents are "encouraged" to be a leader or take an active role. You know, it's the many hands philosophy. There is also a huge and constant push from Council to create new units. When that happens, it can draw boys away from existing units. They get funding based on # of units as well as # of boys. The pressure is enormous. I, and my fellow Cub Masters and Committee Chairs, used to get in fierce arguments with the "professionals" about this. They would want to start a new unit as close as one mile away.

So, all of that certainly does keep many families from joining.

Re: the religious aspect: No particular religion is pushed. At least it's not supposed to be! Both the Cubs and Boy Scouts programs do have religious badges they can earn. There are many requirements set for many religions. And if a boy's religion doesn't have a badge set up he can work with his leaders to create requirements for his family's religion.

However, religion and Christianity, is never taught or pushed. At least in non-LDS units. Obviously, they are different.

After the SCOTUS decision that said BSA is a private org and has the right to set its member policies excluding gays (in previous link) many families pulled their boys and it has effected membership ever since. It's a stupid, discriminatory policy. But, LDS doesn't care. If membership shrinks, they don't care. They will never change that policy.

Yes, the program is amazing. But, the politics of it suck. My boys got a lot out of it.
Thanks for that info. Although, isn't the Scouts credo:
On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

I think we all know which god... same one on our money and in the pledge. ;)
 
How am I being dishonest?
Keep pretending like you don't get it. it's funny to watch.

So organizations that have young people interacting alone with older people aren't going to attract pedophiles? Now call me some Bible-thumping nut job all you want, but that seems to be a pretty big factor in attracting pedos, to me. I'm not really sure where religion falls into this. Are abusive uncles all Christian? Please, show me evidence that the abuse took place because the BSA is a "Christian" organization and not the conventional wisdom that pedos are attracted to youth organizations in general.
you must have forgotten that the organization in question is religious. But please, keep up the comedy. :2razz:
 
Keep pretending like you don't get it. it's funny to watch.

Is this some kind of joke? How am I being dishonest in saying that Boy Scouts isn't a Christian organization?

you must have forgotten that the organization in question is religious. But please, keep up the comedy. :2razz:

Religious =/= Christian. The organization doesn't push one religion over the other. It just says no Atheists, and most troops don't make a big deal out of it.

More importantly what does religion have to do with the abuse? Just answer the question.
 
When I was a trainer in BSA we taught ways to protect the boys and the adults how to help avoid situations where any abuse could happen, and where a false accusation could arise. There was always to be at least 3 people in every goup, either 2 adults with one boy or 2 kids with one adult. This was to be followed whenever a non-relative adult escorted a boy anywhere! No excuses. I took a lot of **** for enforcing this 100%.

There was also reference checking and questionaires asking for permission to do a police background check. If any adult balked at filling the app after being told of that question we HAD to report them. Evidence didn't matter. Someone higher up would look into it.

So, there are indeed BSA rules and procedures in place to help minimize the chances of any abuse happening. I lost a good friend when he found out I reported him when he acted funny, and decided not to fill out the app, after I explained the question and its reason to him. Turns out he had other illegalities to hide that had nothing to do with pedophilia. Didn't matter to me. My obligation, as a Cubmaster, to protect my boys was priority #1. Most BSA leaders take this seriously. The problem is usually with those at the top who have political reasons for hiding abuse complaints.

Boy and Cub Scouts is in effect a candy store for pedophiles. They are going to try to get in there. It's up to the leaders to Do Their Best to stop them. BSA is a great program that offers so much for our young men. It's a real shame that this **** ruins it for so many.
Finally something we agree on. My sons were in BS, and I was on the troop committee. Every troop my boys were in enforced the rules and conducted all the training. It's the first training taught to boy scouts and adults, and they have to sign their scout manuals attesting they've completed it. The BS have a program in place that goes up the chain, so no one should get the idea that the BS are not addressing this.
 
Thanks for that info. Although, isn't the Scouts credo:
On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

I think we all know which god... same one on our money and in the pledge. ;)

That may seem obvious but, it does not mean any particular God. Seriously. Their view is as long as you believe in any God. They don't care if your God is Budha. Really.
 
The following faiths or denominations have religious awards for Tiger Cubs, Cub Scouts, and/or Webelos Scouts:

* African Methodist Episcopal Church
* African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
* Anglican Catholic Church
* Armenian Church of America (Eastern Diocese)
* Baha'i
* Baptist
* Buddhist
* Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
* Christian Methodist Episcopal Church
* Church of Christ, Scientist (Christian Scientist)
* Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon)
* Churches of Christ
* Community of Christ
* Eastern Catholic
* Eastern Orthodox
* Episcopal
* General Church of the New Jerusalem (The New Church)
* Hindu
* Islamic
* Jewish
* Lutheran
* Meher Baba
* National Association of Anglican and Traditional Catholic Scouters
* Polish National Catholic
* Presbyterian Church in America
* Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
* Protestant and Independent Christian Churches -- (Available to any Christian denomination)
* Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
* Roman Catholic
* The Salvation Army
* Unitarian-Universalist Scouters Association
* United Church of Christ
* United Methodist
* United Pentecostal Church International
* Unity Churches
Religious Emblems for Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts

and...
The following faiths or denominations have religious awards for Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, Venturers and/or Explorers:

* African Methodist Episcopal Church
* African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
* Anglican Catholic Church
* Armenian Apostolic Church of America (Western Prelacy)
* Armenian Church of America (Eastern Diocese)
* Baha'i
* Baptist
* Buddhist
* Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
* Christian Methodist Episcopal Church
* Church of Christ, Scientist (Christian Scientist)
* Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
* Churches of Christ
* Community of Christ
* Eastern Catholic
* Eastern Orthodox
* Episcopal
* General Church of the New Jerusalem (The New Church)
* Hindu
* Islamic
* Jewish
* Lutheran
* Meher Baba
* Moravian
* National Association of Anglican and Traditional Catholic Scouters
* Polish National Catholic Church
* Presbyterian Church in America
* Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
* Protestant and Independent Christian Churches - (Available to any Christian denomination)
* Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
* Roman Catholic
* The Salvation Army
* Unitarian-Universalist Scouters Association
* United Church of Christ
* United Methodist
* United Pentecostal Church International
* Unity Churches
* Zoroastrian
Religious Emblems for Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, Venturers, and Explorers

Note, not all are Christian. Some I don't even know what they are.
 
you left out shinto
and please note that the BSA proclaims that it is a nondenominational organization
I’m curious as to your understanding of religion in Scouting. I’m familiar with "God" and reverence in the BSA; however, how does a leader keep Baden-Powell’s edict to be sure that Scouting be available to boys of all beliefs? I become very uncomfortable at this time of year with some of the "forced" religion, for example, the singing of secular Christmas songs at holiday pack nights when Jewish or others who do not celebrate the "birth of Jesus" as part of their holiday may be uncomfortable. ...

Thanks for asking these important questions. Let's begin by re-reading the BSA's own Statement of Religious Principle, which can readily be found on every youth and adult application. There, it states with clarity that while a belief in God is fundamental to Scouting principles, the BSA is completely nondenominational and nonsectarian in all other regards and leaves all specific teachings to be done by others, including parents and religious leaders. So it doesn't take a Clarence Darrow to figure out that any teachings that are specific to a particular faith or denomination of a faith have no place in a Scout meeting. Period.

There are many examples of the "Scouts Own" service and in none of these that have been prepared properly will you find references to one religion in particular or to the exclusion of any other.

So, to use the word "only" with regard to faith is about at wrong as one can be, especially in a meeting of Scouts of any age. As for prayers, graces, or benedictions that are denominational or sectarian in nature, it’s definitely acceptable for a religious leader performing them to speak from his or her own faith. We cannot expect a catholic priest to refer to Yahweh or Buddha any more than we'd expect a rabbi to speak "in the name of Jesus," but we must simultaneously keep in mind that they are speaking from their foundation and NOT on behalf of Scouting. We also need to keep in mind that Allah and God are simply different words, in different languages, that have identical meaning.

Here's a true story...

Some years ago, while touring Washington, D.C., in preparation for attending a Boy Scout National Jamboree, my troop attended a Sunday service at the National Cathedral. Afterward, several Scouts and I sat on the warm front lawn and talked over what we'd just experienced, making comparisons (I guided, but did not lead the conversation). Among the Scouts that sunny morning were two Protestant Scouts (a Baptist and a Presbyterian), a Jewish Scout, a Buddhist, two Roman Catholics, a Latter Day Saint, and a Shinto. Each Scout in turn talked about what he's seen and heard and how it compared to his own faith. They ended up agreeing with one another that, in the first place, in the right circumstances it's OK to talk about religion and, in the second place, isn't it pretty cool that despite our different faiths we are all guided to conduct ourselves the same way toward others!
The NetCommish @ USSSP - Ask Andy #88 - January 2007
[emphasis added by bubba]
 
Simply clarifying your statement. To say, "It is not an LDS organization" is not 100% accurate, as I tried to show.



Per usual, you like to attack the source. It happens to be very accurate. And yes, I would suggest you go to MoveOn to learn about Repubs because Repubs can't be trusted.
If you find something wrong with the content of the link then by all means... spew.





:lamo



/facepalm
 
It might as well be. You don't know what you're talking about here. I suggest you check it out before continuing with your assumptions.


BSA Discrimination.org:Home -> BSA & Gays -> Articles on BSA/Gays -> Struggle for the Soul of the BSA

Without the financial support of the LDS church, BSA could not survive. BSA also follows LDS' lead on badge requirements, training and even ceremonies. BSA does not decide on anything that LDS has not approved.

Sounds like a big lie to me, got links or evidence?
My experience with LDS and BSA is that the LDS like the BSA program enough to make use of it, and support it, but in no way controls it. It may seen so in Utah, where the majority is LDS, but it just isn't so. Other christian churches who don't like LDS make up their own form of BSA, like the "Royal Rangers".
 
Back
Top Bottom