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Nearly 50 percent of doctors ready to quit medicine if Healthcare bill passes

There is no part of the definition that applies. We have loaned money to corporations before. See the Chrysler bailout in 1979.
And the government doesn't control the health care industry. they simple adopted the 1993 conservative plan of individual mandates for health insurance through your choice of private companies.

Personally, I think we should have a true UHC system like the rest of the developed world, but this as close as we could get with moderates in control of the government. Perhaps someday the liberals will manage to get a candidate elected and we can have true UHC.

How much are you willing to pay for this healthcare system that the rest of the world has that for some reason you admire? Have you traveled much? There are over 308 million Americans in 50 sovereign states and you believe the govt. can implement a UHC? Check out the results of MA before spouting rhetoric.
 
How much are you willing to pay for this healthcare system that the rest of the world has that for some reason you admire? Have you traveled much? There are over 308 million Americans in 50 sovereign states and you believe the govt. can implement a UHC? Check out the results of MA before spouting rhetoric.

MA doesn't have UHC, they have individual health insurance mandates, which was a conservative idea.

Look at Costa Rica where they have one of the most socialized forms of UHC as well as being one of the highest rated health care systems in the world!

And the average person in Costa Rica makes one-tenth what Americans make!

"Costa Rican Life expectancy is 76 years for men and 79.8 years for women, both longer than in the United States. The infant mortality rate in Costa Rica is less than that in the United States. The United Nations consistently ranks Costa Rica’s public health system in the top 20 worldwide and the best in Latin America.

With a government-sponsored network of 29 hospitals and more than 250 clinics throughout the country, the Caja Costarricense de Seguro Social (CCSS) has primary responsibility for providing low cost health services to the Costa Rican populace. Open not just to Costa Ricans, the CCSS provides affordable medical service to any foreign resident or visitor. Foreigners living in Costa Rica can join the CCSS by paying a small monthly fee--based on their income-- or they can buy a very inexpensive but through health insurance from the State monopoly Instituto de Seguro Nacional (INS) valid with over 200 affiliated doctors, hospitals, labs and pharmacies in the private sector.

Hospitals have the latest equipment, and laboratories are excellent. You can feel safe having most operations without returning to the U.S. or Canada. Most surgical procedures cost only a fraction of what they do in the U.S. For example, a heart bypass operations cost about a third of what they do in the U.S.

Private clinics and hospitals provide quicker services with more privacy, enabling you to avoid long lines and the bureaucracy of the public system. In Costa Rica the term Clinica is used for private institutions that generally include inpatient medical/surgical facilities, doctor’s offices, laboratories, and radiology, pharmacy, and outpatient services. Hospital generally refers to a public inpatient medical and surgical facilities that also provide laboratory, radiology, pharmacy and related services."
Costa Rica Healthcare|Hospitals|Heath Insurance

You asked about cost ~

"More money per person is spent on health care in the United States than in any other nation in the world,[6][7] and a greater percentage of total income in the nation is spent on health care in the U.S. than in any United Nations member state except for East Timor.[7] Despite the fact that not all citizens are covered, the United States has the third highest public healthcare expenditure per capita.[8][9] A 2001 study in five states found that medical debt contributed to 62% of all personal bankruptcies.[10] Since then, health costs and the numbers of uninsured and underinsured have increased."

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States[/ame]
 
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MA doesn't have UHC, they have individual health insurance mandates, which was a conservative idea.

Look at Costa Rica where they have one of the most socialized forms of UHC as well as being one of the highest rated health care systems in the world!

And the average person in Costa Rica makes one-tenth what Americans make!

"Costa Rican Life expectancy is 76 years for men and 79.8 years for women, both longer than in the United States. The infant mortality rate in Costa Rica is less than that in the United States. The United Nations consistently ranks Costa Rica’s public health system in the top 20 worldwide and the best in Latin America.

With a government-sponsored network of 29 hospitals and more than 250 clinics throughout the country, the Caja Costarricense de Seguro Social (CCSS) has primary responsibility for providing low cost health services to the Costa Rican populace. Open not just to Costa Ricans, the CCSS provides affordable medical service to any foreign resident or visitor. Foreigners living in Costa Rica can join the CCSS by paying a small monthly fee--based on their income-- or they can buy a very inexpensive but through health insurance from the State monopoly Instituto de Seguro Nacional (INS) valid with over 200 affiliated doctors, hospitals, labs and pharmacies in the private sector.

Hospitals have the latest equipment, and laboratories are excellent. You can feel safe having most operations without returning to the U.S. or Canada. Most surgical procedures cost only a fraction of what they do in the U.S. For example, a heart bypass operations cost about a third of what they do in the U.S.

Private clinics and hospitals provide quicker services with more privacy, enabling you to avoid long lines and the bureaucracy of the public system. In Costa Rica the term Clinica is used for private institutions that generally include inpatient medical/surgical facilities, doctor’s offices, laboratories, and radiology, pharmacy, and outpatient services. Hospital generally refers to a public inpatient medical and surgical facilities that also provide laboratory, radiology, pharmacy and related services."
Costa Rica Healthcare|Hospitals|Heath Insurance

You asked about cost ~

"More money per person is spent on health care in the United States than in any other nation in the world,[6][7] and a greater percentage of total income in the nation is spent on health care in the U.S. than in any United Nations member state except for East Timor.[7] Despite the fact that not all citizens are covered, the United States has the third highest public healthcare expenditure per capita.[8][9] A 2001 study in five states found that medical debt contributed to 62% of all personal bankruptcies.[10] Since then, health costs and the numbers of uninsured and underinsured have increased."

Health care in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Will you ever be intellectually honest with anyone? Do you really want this country to be like Costa Rica? What is the average income in Costa Rica vs. the U.S.? the grass is always greener on the other side until you get there and realize that grass was actually paint. Do you want Costa Rica wages here? How about Costa Rica economic growth?

MA doesn't have Single Payer healthcare but it does have Universal healthcare. You apparently don't know the difference. Either way the results will be the same, lack of incentive, lack of R&D, and high taxes to pay for it thus shortages of doctors which we have no but will get worse.

Medical debt in this country because of its economy is born mostly by the private sector so once again you create a strawman. you totally lack a basic knowledge of our economy and how it works. You want so badly to buy what Obama tells you yet Obama has yet to have a prediction come true thus continues to lie to the American people.

Comparing costs in Costa Rica vs. the U.S. is like comparing apples to oranges where both are fruits but that is the extent of it.
 
You have refuted nothing as all you have done is posted opinion pieces which ignore actual facts. The purpose of this bill was to reform healthcare yet all you claim now is this multi trillion dollar bill is a good first step. Your problem is you don't seem to understand how much a trillion dollars is nor do you see the potential consequences of failure.

If you cared about actual evidence you would get the actual results in MA regarding their Universal healthcare program which is the model for what Obama has signed. When are you going to address the massive cost increase in MA and the fact that the highest healthcare cost state in the country continues to increase costs? When are you going to recognize that your claim of ER's use going down isn't supported by MA results?

What is it about the liberal ideology that creates such passion for programs that never work?

You may disagree with an opinion, but if it is structured through sound reasoning, it is valid.

MA doesn't have universal health care (noted for you above). Again, you have to get your facts straight.
 
Will you ever be intellectually honest with anyone? Do you really want this country to be like Costa Rica? What is the average income in Costa Rica vs. the U.S.? the grass is always greener on the other side until you get there and realize that grass was actually paint. Do you want Costa Rica wages here? How about Costa Rica economic growth?


Costa Rica's economic situation is not because of UHC. Their health care costs are a fraction of ours, as I have shown.
 
You may disagree with an opinion, but if it is structured through sound reasoning, it is valid.

MA doesn't have universal health care (noted for you above). Again, you have to get your facts straight.

All the best reasoning in the world cannot stand when the results contradict it. The results of actual UHC's dispel these opinions and it is those results that are being ignored.

And YES, this is Universal Healthcare by definition. All citizens of MA have coverage. It is you that needs to get facts straight or do you simply buy all rhetoric created by people you like as factual?

Universal health care is a system of organized health-care systems built around the principle of universal coverage for all members of society, combining mechanisms for health financing and service provision.[1]
 
Costa Rica's economic situation is not because of UHC. Their health care costs are a fraction of ours, as I have shown.

So are the wages. People making 9000 a year cannot afford U.S. healthcare costs nor does Costa Rica have the U.S. healthcare regulations, controls, and R&D Budgets
 
All the best reasoning in the world cannot stand when the results contradict it. The results of actual UHC's dispel these opinions and it is those results that are being ignored.

And YES, this is Universal Healthcare by definition. All citizens of MA have coverage. It is you that needs to get facts straight or do you simply buy all rhetoric created by people you like as factual?

Universal health care is a system of organized health-care systems built around the principle of universal coverage for all members of society, combining mechanisms for health financing and service provision.[1]

Results are often assessed by reasoning. There is not a number or statistic that tells us the results of all things. Instead, we have to assess and rason it.
 
Results are often assessed by reasoning. There is not a number or statistic that tells us the results of all things. Instead, we have to assess and rason it.

When are you going to use reason to assess the performance of all federal initiated social programs? Are you ever going to use reason to review the MA performance?

You can study govt run programs until hell freezes over and a reasonable person will come up with the same results, total and complete failure in terms of controlling costs and improving quality.
 
Hospitals have the latest equipment, and laboratories are excellent. You can feel safe having most operations without returning to the U.S. or Canada. Most surgical procedures cost only a fraction of what they do in the U.S. For example, a heart bypass operations cost about a third of what they do in the U.S.
Just an FYI, here's a price list. Although it's from a medical tourism site, it'll give an idea of the cost differences. It should also be noted that these Costa Rica medical costs are not an anomaly in medical tourism destinations.

Medical Procedures USA Costa Rica

Heart Bypass Up to $130,000 $24,000
Heart Valve Replacement Up to $160,000 $15,000
Angioplasty Up to $57,000 $9,000
Hip Replacement Up to $43,000 $12,000
Hysterectomy Up to $20,000 $4,000
Knee Replacement Up to $40,000 $11,000
Spinal Fusion Up to $62,000 $25,000


Costa Rica: More than Cosmetic & Dental Surgery



*sorry about the formatting, but you get the idea.
 
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Just an FYI, here's a price list. Although it's from a medical tourism site, it'll give an idea of the cost differences. It should also be noted that these Costa Rica medical costs are not an anomaly in medical tourism destinations.

Average income (Approx) U.S. 40,000 Costa Rica 9500
 
When are you going to use reason to assess the performance of all federal initiated social programs? Are you ever going to use reason to review the MA performance?

You can study govt run programs until hell freezes over and a reasonable person will come up with the same results, total and complete failure in terms of controlling costs and improving quality.

I have used reasoning already. Again, I have answered and explained already.
 
Average income (Approx) U.S. 40,000 Costa Rica 9500
Airfare

Orlando to San Jose $240
Chicago to San Jose $244
Washington to San Jose $294
New York to San Jose $324
Detroit to San Jose $331
 
I have used reasoning already. Again, I have answered and explained already.

I see your reasoning as flawed and the facts back me up. Have you ever admitted being wrong once in your life? What if you are wrong here as the MA program indicates?
 
Airfare

Orlando to San Jose $240
Chicago to San Jose $244
Washington to San Jose $294
New York to San Jose $324
Detroit to San Jose $331

Your point? you think comparing airfare to various cities is comparable to comparing income to two countries? That is liberal logic which cannot be called logic at all.
 
I see your reasoning as flawed and the facts back me up. Have you ever admitted being wrong once in your life? What if you are wrong here as the MA program indicates?

I've been wrong a time or two, and have admitted it. However, that doesn't mean you've proven me wrong here. I don't believe you have.

And the MA program is not the this program. And you wrongly called it universal health care, which it isn't.
 
I've been wrong a time or two, and have admitted it. However, that doesn't mean you've proven me wrong here. I don't believe you have.

And the MA program is not the this program. And you wrongly called it universal health care, which it isn't.

What is it going to take to prove you wrong. We have the MA numbers, we have historical data on SS, Medicare, and other social engineering programs.

We have a serious problem here where we cannot even agree on the definition of UHC. Give me your definition as I gave you a web posted definition. ALL citizens of MA are covered and have access to healthcare so why isn't that UHC?
 
What is it going to take to prove you wrong. We have the MA numbers, we have historical data on SS, Medicare, and other social engineering programs.

We have a serious problem here where we cannot even agree on the definition of UHC. Give me your definition as I gave you a web posted definition. ALL citizens of MA are covered and have access to healthcare so why isn't that UHC?


None of that proves me wrong in any way. And you really do need tolearn what universal health care is:

a health insurance program in many countries other than the United States that is financed by taxes and administered by the government to provide comprehensive health care that is accessible to all citizens of that nation.

Universal health care - definition of Universal health care in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Universal health care is a system of organized health-care systems built around the principle of universal coverage for all members of society, combining mechanisms for health financing and service provision.[1]

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care]Universal health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

# Universal health care is health care coverage for all eligible residents of a political region and often covers medical, dental and mental health ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care

# A government-sponsored system that ensures health care coverage for all citizens of a nation, regardless of income level or employment status.
political glossary - political terms - CosmoGIRL!

Although some people refer to universal health care as socialized medicine, the concepts are not completely synonymous. The term “socialized medicine” is primarily used only in the United States by those who do not support the idea of universal health care. Outside the US, the terms most used are universal health care or public health care. The actual definition of socialized medicine is somewhat varied and inconsistent in usage, though it generally describes any system of health care that is publicly financed, government administered, or both.

Universal Health Care


MA is not universal health care.
 
None of that proves me wrong in any way. And you really do need tolearn what universal health care is:

a health insurance program in many countries other than the United States that is financed by taxes and administered by the government to provide comprehensive health care that is accessible to all citizens of that nation.

Universal health care - definition of Universal health care in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Universal health care is a system of organized health-care systems built around the principle of universal coverage for all members of society, combining mechanisms for health financing and service provision.[1]

Universal health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

# Universal health care is health care coverage for all eligible residents of a political region and often covers medical, dental and mental health ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care

# A government-sponsored system that ensures health care coverage for all citizens of a nation, regardless of income level or employment status.
political glossary - political terms - CosmoGIRL!

Although some people refer to universal health care as socialized medicine, the concepts are not completely synonymous. The term “socialized medicine” is primarily used only in the United States by those who do not support the idea of universal health care. Outside the US, the terms most used are universal health care or public health care. The actual definition of socialized medicine is somewhat varied and inconsistent in usage, though it generally describes any system of health care that is publicly financed, government administered, or both.

Universal Health Care


MA is not universal health care.

I am really concerned about your reading comprehension as that is the definition I posted and what is in effect in MA. All citizens of MA have healthcare coverage so what isn't universal about that?
 
I am really concerned about your reading comprehension as that is the definition I posted and what is in effect in MA. All citizens of MA have healthcare coverage so what isn't universal about that?

No, that is mot true of MA. First, not everyone is covered. Second, the government is the insurer. There are private insurance companies. Nothing has been combined. Read all of what I posted and not selected words.
 
No, that is mot true of MA. First, not everyone is covered. Second, the government is the insurer. There are private insurance companies. Nothing has been combined. Read all of what I posted and not selected words.

Everyone in MA is covered and has access to healthcare, that is universal. How it is funded is irrelevant. Universal Healthcare is about access, not funding.
 
Everyone in MA is covered and has access to healthcare, that is universal. How it is funded is irrelevant. Universal Healthcare is about access, not funding.

No, most are. Not all. And how it is funded is part of the definition.

a health insurance program in many countries other than the United States that is financed by taxes and administered by the government to provide comprehensive health care that is accessible to all citizens of that nation.

I highlighted for you. Does that help?
 
No, most are. Not all. And how it is funded is part of the definition.

a health insurance program in many countries other than the United States that is financed by taxes and administered by the government to provide comprehensive health care that is accessible to all citizens of that nation.

I highlighted for you. Does that help?


What it helps show is how out of touch with reality you really are? There aren't any taxes in this healthcare bill? The Govt. doesn't set up exchanges? All people in MA aren't covered?

You really are clueless and unfortunately aren't alone. It is pointless to argue this point with you as you apparently are certifablly hopeless. Keep digging your hole deeper.
 
So are the wages. People making 9000 a year cannot afford U.S. healthcare costs nor does Costa Rica have the U.S. healthcare regulations, controls, and R&D Budgets

People in the US can also not afford US health care costs. That is the whole point of needed health care reform.

If Costa Rica can afford a UHC system rated with better outcomes than that provided in the US, than we can afford it as well.
 
a health insurance program in many countries other than the United States that is financed by taxes and administered by the government to provide comprehensive health care that is accessible to all citizens of that nation.

Goes to show how far to the right some in this country are that they think the conservative idea of health insurance mandates is socialized medicine.

Perhaps a trip to Costa Rica with the entertainer that recently boasted he would go there would open their eyes. :shock:
 
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