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Obama Socialist Health care program....

Hoplite said:
Any examples?
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Tort Reform, No Abortion Funding, Cross state borders for insurance......I could go on and on........You have either been not paying attention or are blinded by your partisanship my left wing friend.....
 
Navy Pride said:
Tort Reform, No Abortion Funding, Cross state borders for insurance......I could go on and on........You have either been not paying attention or are blinded by your partisanship my left wing friend.....
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Yeah cause he has the blind partisanship. Since everyone to you on the left is communist American hating moron.
 
Navy Pride said:
Tort Reform, No Abortion Funding, Cross state borders for insurance......I could go on and on........You have either been not paying attention or are blinded by your partisanship my left wing friend.....
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Tort reform - the right-wing answer to healthcare reform. They haven't looked at any of the studies that say it would have less than a 1% effect on the costs of healthcare.

No Abortion funding - the new bill provides no funding. So there's no idea there that is new.

Cross state borders - Oh please....the same insurance companies are operating state to state. This is not going to have any effect at real reform.

You wanna try again?
 
Navy Pride said:
The majority of the American people do not want Obama Care.....The polls show that..live with it..........
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Yes, some of the dissent is from those that do not want change, some is from those that think this bill has been watered down beyond recognition and some of it is just objecting to the process. The majority of Americans want health care reform and the majority of Americans want at least a public option.

Given the most want health care reform and if this gets voted down now, no one will have the guts to try this again for 100 years, its no wonder that the prevailing wisdom in the demo party is to get something done, even if it means losing a few congressional seats....
 
Navy Pride said:
Tort Reform, No Abortion Funding, Cross state borders for insurance......I could go on and on........You have either been not paying attention or are blinded by your partisanship my left wing friend.....
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1. Tort reform was very much on the table, if the Repubs participated.
2. There is no change in the status of abortion funding in this legislation... there remains no federal funding of abortions
3. The will be more across state line purchases in this plan. To have an across stateline free for all would give us the same result as across state line credit card regulation and banking, both have been a bit of a disaster. State regulation (for you states rights people) is an important part of the check and balance on the system.
 
Navy Pride said:
Tort Reform, No Abortion Funding, Cross state borders for insurance......I could go on and on........You have either been not paying attention or are blinded by your partisanship my left wing friend.....
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As has been previously mentioned: tort reform is a token effort at best and I've seen NOTHING serious on it from anywhere on the Republican side (or any side for that matter). Abortion funding is moot point because the bill provides no funding and it never did, it's also not a HEALTHCARE item. And cross state borders for insurance is, again, a token point that I've seen raised a handful of times.

Republicans make excuses and sit back down. At this point I dont CARE how effective the healthcare reform will be, it's proof that SOMETHING is being done.
 
Goobieman said:
No. if health care is a right, then I have a right to not exercise that right.
This is no different than requiring people to vote, and fining them if they do not.
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How is voting in the least bit comparable to owning insurance? And who ever said anything about health care being a right? This is about making health care affordable for everyone. Or are you suggesting that health care should be a luxury?

This is a requirement necessary to exercise an optional privilege so that people do not financially suffer from the damage you mightr cause.
In that, you are comparing Apples and tuna.
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Uh...what? People who get sick can get other people sick. And the realty is that getting sick is going to cost everyone one way or another anyways because they aren't going to deny you treatment. They are only going to wait until you are so sick that they have to treat you and by that point, it is going to cost considerably more when everyone else has to foot the bill. That is damaging.

Do the exact opposite -- get rid of it and make everyone pay for their health care out-of-pocket. This will drive competition, raise quality and reduce costs.
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The reason we have these kinds of programs is because "paying out of pocket" was not a viable option for many of the country's poor and elderly but they still get sick and cost everyone else, so it is in the country's best interest to pay for them if they can't buy it themselves.

Forcing coverage for people with pre-existing conditions raises costs.
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So you are arguing that it is more important to cut costs than to provide health care to those who need it? That isn't exactly loving your neighbor as you love yourself, but you are entitled to your values I guess.

If they cannot raise the premiums for the peopel wit the PEC, they will raise someone elses.
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Huh? You are going to need to explain your logic behind this.

Cutting funding doesnt force anone to be more efficient -- creatng competition does.
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Cutting funding does create competition and that is why it does lead to greater efficiency. The hospitals that can become more efficient will survive and those that cannot will go out of business.

Medicade is already for low-income people, exclusively.
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No, that is utterly false. 60% of Americans living in poverty are not covered under Medicaid. Medicaid does provide service for the nation's low income, but that is not the only condition you need to meet to qualify. Furthermore it covers people certain disabilities. Do you really know that little about our current health care system?

before this can be discussed, the soundness of the premise of the current 'reform' must be established. This has not been done.
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Ah, so the person who doesn't seem to know about our current health care system is demanding proof that we need reform. That seems like ostrich syndrome to me. You don't have to go out and actually find out what is wrong, and therefore you can tell yourself that there doesn't need to be reform.

"Could"?
Ok... it "could" raise deficts and it "could" increase the prescription coverage gap.
There. Point countered.
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The nonpartisan CBO says it will increase prescription coverage. Your move.
 
Navy Pride said:
Tort Reform, No Abortion Funding, Cross state borders for insurance......I could go on and on........You have either been not paying attention or are blinded by your partisanship my left wing friend.....
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Tort Reform
House Bill (H.R. 3962)
Provide incentive payments to states that enact alternative medical liability laws that make the medical liability system more reliable through the prevention of or prompt and fair resolution of disputes, encourage the disclosure of health care errors, and maintain access to affordable liability insurance.

Senate Bill (H.R. 3590)
Award five-year demonstration grants to states to develop, implement, and evaluate alternatives to current tort litigations.

President Obama
Award five-year demonstration grants to states to develop, implement, and evaluate alternatives to current tort litigations.
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No Abortion Funding
House Bill (H.R. 3962)
Prohibit federal premium subsidies from being used to purchase a health plan in the Exchange that includes coverage for abortions except to save the life of the woman or in cases of rape or incest. Individuals receiving federal subsidies may purchase supplemental coverage for abortions but that coverage must be paid for entirely with private funds.

Senate Bill (H.R. 3590)
Ensure that federal premium or cost-sharing subsidies are not used to purchase coverage for abortion if coverage extends beyond saving the life of the woman or in cases of rape or incest.

President Obama
Ensure that federal premium or cost-sharing subsidies are not used to purchase coverage for abortion if coverage extends beyond saving the life of the woman or in cases of rape or incest
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Cross State Borders for Insurance
House Bill (H.R. 3962)
Permit states to form Health Care Choice Compacts to facilitate the purchase of individual insurance across state lines.

Senate Bill (H.R. 3590)
Permit states to form health care choice compacts and allow insurers to sell policies in any state participating in the compact.

President Obama
Permit states to form health care choice compacts and allow insurers to sell policies in any state participating in the compact.
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http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/housesenatebill_final.pdf
 
Jetboogieman said:
Yeah cause he has the blind partisanship. Since everyone to you on the left is communist American hating moron.
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You ask me to give you some points of the Republican Health Plan and I do it and then your rebuttal is to attack me.. Please put me on ignore.....You have nothing to add to this thread......thanks.......
 
disneydude said:
Tort reform - the right-wing answer to healthcare reform. They haven't looked at any of the studies that say it would have less than a 1% effect on the costs of healthcare.
No Abortion funding - the new bill provides no funding. So there's no idea there that is new.

Cross state borders - Oh please....the same insurance companies are operating state to state. This is not going to have any effect at real reform.

You wanna try again?
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Spoken by and ambulance chasing lawyer........:rofl
 
Navy Pride said:
Spoken by and ambulance chasing lawyer........:rofl
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Do you ever have an intelligent comment? Like about the fact that tort reform has been proven to only have a 1% impact?
 
upsideguy said:
Yes, some of the dissent is from those that do not want change, some is from those that think this bill has been watered down beyond recognition and some of it is just objecting to the process. The majority of Americans want health care reform and the majority of Americans want at least a public option.

Given the most want health care reform and if this gets voted down now, no one will have the guts to try this again for 100 years, its no wonder that the prevailing wisdom in the demo party is to get something done, even if it means losing a few congressional seats....
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This bill will bankrupt this country.......Why do you think all these 37 states are already figuring out ways to opt out......

They don't want Obama Care.........
 
upsideguy said:
1. Tort reform was very much on the table, if the Repubs participated.
2. There is no change in the status of abortion funding in this legislation... there remains no federal funding of abortions
3. The will be more across state line purchases in this plan. To have an across stateline free for all would give us the same result as across state line credit card regulation and banking, both have been a bit of a disaster. State regulation (for you states rights people) is an important part of the check and balance on the system.
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1, Horsehit the dems are in the back pocket of the lawyers in this country..they will never allow tort reform........
2. Horse****, why do you think Congressman Stupar and 12 other dems won't vote yes? You are really clueless..
3. Did you even read any of Obama Care when it was posted yesterday?
 
Hoplite said:
As has been previously mentioned: tort reform is a token effort at best and I've seen NOTHING serious on it from anywhere on the Republican side (or any side for that matter). Abortion funding is moot point because the bill provides no funding and it never did, it's also not a HEALTHCARE item. And cross state borders for insurance is, again, a token point that I've seen raised a handful of times.

Republicans make excuses and sit back down. At this point I dont CARE how effective the healthcare reform will be, it's proof that SOMETHING is being done.
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Tort Reform is the best way to keep costs down.....Without it costs will sky rocket and already has.........
 
Navy Pride said:
Spoken by and ambulance chasing lawyer........:rofl
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Sorry Navy....but as I've told you before, I don't do personal injury law. You know that. Don't you understand that personal attacks are against forum rules. You should, since you probably remind people of that more often than anyone else.

If I were a personal injury lawyer then your slanderous slur of "ambulance chaser" might make some sense. Since I do criminal/civil rights law, it doesn't really apply.....in other words, if you are going to engage in personal attacks, at lease get your facts straight. :doh
 
Remember all you retired military guys........Most of these lefties have not served in the military let alone retired from it...........If Obama gets this socialist plan through your TRICARE is done as wall as huge increases in the premiums for Medicare....About one third of all doctors taking Medicare patients will opt out so there will be very few doctors to treat you.........If you are retired military check out the site below.......


http://www.capitolconnect.com/freeourhealthcarenow/
 
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Navy Pride said:
Remember all you retired military guys........Most of these lefties have not served in the military let alone retired from it...........If Obama gets this socialist plan through your TRICARE is done as wall as huge increases in the premiums for Medicare....About one third of all doctors taking Medicare patients will opt out so there will be very few doctors to treat you.........
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lies and right-wing radio propoganda.
 
disneydude said:
Since I do criminal/civil rights law
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Now THAT explains a LOT! I AM sorry...I seriously thought you were just another coolaid addict.. but now I see it's your life's work!:doh
 
ConservaBill said:
Now THAT explains a LOT! I seriously thought you were just another coolaid addict.. but now I see it's your life's work!:doh
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Absolutely. Going into law school I thought I wanted to go into entertainment law or something where I would make a ton of money.

I actually could have done so, but decided that I didn't want to live my life working in a large law firm pushing paper for 18 hours a day.

I am very passionate about my work in that I get the satisfaction of knowing that on a small level I am able to help people out. on a larger level, hopefully some of the work I do will have a beneficial effect on society.
 
misterman said:
Thanks. Please tell it to everyone who thinks the free market is the magical solution (and not the problem) in health care.
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For the most part, it is.
Oil goies up because of supply (shrinking) and demand (growing). As such, competition, thru improved services and consumer value, doesnt really apply.
Health care is different than oil, because those things do apply.
 
CriticalThought said:
How is voting in the least bit comparable to owning insurance? And who ever said anything about health care being a right? This is about making health care affordable for everyone. Or are you suggesting that health care should be a luxury?
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You dont agree that health care is a right? If that's the case, then what business does the government have in making sure tha everyone has access to the means to exercise a privilige?

Uh...what?
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I was excplaing why your 'we require car insurance' argument doesn't work.

Auto insurance is a requirement necessary to exercise an optional privilege so that people do not financially suffer from the damage you might cause. This is NOT the rationale behind The Obama's plan, that requires you to exercise a right just to live here, and will fine you if you don't. Apples and tuna.

People who get sick can get other people sick.
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This isnt in any way comparable to running a red light and hitting someone elses' car.

And the realty is that getting sick is going to cost everyone one way or another anyways because they aren't going to deny you treatment.
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This is an -optional- reality. It doesnt HAVE to be this way; that this condition is not necessary negates it as legitimate support your your argument.

The reason we have these kinds of programs is because "paying out of pocket" was not a viable option for many of the country's poor and elderly but they still get sick and cost everyone else, so it is in the country's best interest to pay for them if they can't buy it themselves.
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You didn't even read what I said.
They cannot pay out of pocket because the costs are too high.
Lower costs, thru competition, and then they can.

So you are arguing that it is more important to cut costs....
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Isnt that the entire point of health care reform?

...than to provide health care to those who need it?
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Its not MY responsibility to provide health care to anyone that I do not choose to provide health care to.

That isn't exactly loving your neighbor as you love yourself, but you are entitled to your values I guess.
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You are responible for you, not me.
But, given that you make a moral argumet here -- who are you to force your morality on others?

Huh? You are going to need to explain your logic behind this.
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-Insurance companies will be forced to take people with PEC
-They will have to charge these people much more than those without.
-They will not be allowed to do so.
-The compaies will need to make up the costs somehow, and will raise raites for everyone else.

Cutting funding does create competition and that is why it does lead to greater efficiency.
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Or, and more likely, it reduces the quality of the goods and services provided.

No, that is utterly false. 60% of Americans living in poverty are not covered under Medicaid.
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No, it completely true. The 'fact' you note only illiustrates there is a difference between the threshold for medicaide and the definition of poverty. Medicaide is -absolutely- a program exclusively for poor; that not everyone that has income under a certain level is covered by medicade does not in any way change this.

Ah, so the person who doesn't seem to know about our current health care system is demanding proof that we need reform.
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I'll take that as you admitting you cannot provide proof of that need.
You THINK there needs to be reform. Your opinion does not illustrate the existence of a necessary condition.

The nonpartisan CBO says it will increase prescription coverage. Your move.
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The argument was "could", as in 'there exists a possibility'.
This is not a solid foundation for an argument, as I illustrated.
 
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