Obama Socialist Health care program....

Hoplite said:

I'm duly ignoring the hyperbole, dont you worry

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I doubt very seriously if a lefty like you has a dog in this fight either.......

Navy Pride said:

I doubt very seriously if a lefty like you has a dog in this fight either.......

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Are you kidding? I was gunning for Universal Healthcare when this all started.

'Sides, everybody knows it aint the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog

Navy Pride said:

You military retired guys and girls please in this one instance put your politics aside.....Don't believe DD......He has no dog in this fight and could care less what happens to us......He only cares about Obama and his precious socialist health program.....He is a big time ambulance chaser in the 6 figure salary area and does not have to worry about health care........

Just read the OP and act accordingly before its to late.........

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You've seriously lost it dude....yes...I'm fortunate enough that I don't have to worry about healthcare. Why do you think I care about healthcare then?

Perhaps its because I believe that others should have access to healthcare and that maybe healthcare shouldn't be a luxury that only an elite few should have.

Healthcare for profit makes ZERO ZERO ZERO sense. It is time for someone to take profit out of the healthcare industry. I don't LOVE this plan, but its a start.

Navy Pride said:

You military retired guys and girls please in this one instance put your politics aside.....Don't believe DD......He has no dog in this fight and could care less what happens to us......He only cares about Obama and his precious socialist health program.....He is a big time ambulance chaser in the 6 figure salary area and does not have to worry about health care........

Just read the OP and act accordingly before its to late.........

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Holy **** I really think you've gone off the deepend here buddy.

Just look at all the money that the corporate insurance companies are pouring in to try to defeat healthcare reform.....

THAT should give you a good clue on which party supports large corporate interests and which party wants REAL reform that will help the American people.

The corporate insurance companies and the GOP are desperately trying to protect their financial interests to defeat healthcare for the American people.


If people are stupid enough to buy into this propoganda...then perhaps we are doomed to continue with the same failed system with its increasing premiums and less and less coverage.

Is that what people want?

Hoplite said:

Are you kidding? I was gunning for Universal Healthcare when this all started.

'Sides, everybody knows it aint the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog

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Do you want to provide every citizen with a home, car, 3 squares and a job from cradle to grave my socialist friend? Is there anything a citizen in this country should get on his own?

disneydude said:

You've seriously lost it dude....yes...I'm fortunate enough that I don't have to worry about healthcare. Why do you think I care about healthcare then?

Perhaps its because I believe that others should have access to healthcare and that maybe healthcare shouldn't be a luxury that only an elite few should have.

Healthcare for profit makes ZERO ZERO ZERO sense. It is time for someone to take profit out of the healthcare industry. I don't LOVE this plan, but its a start.

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Maybe you have not noticed that I directed this thread to military retirees who if your daddy Obama ramrods this socialist health care program that no one has even seen will lose their present medical care plan that was promised to them by virtue of making the military a career or do you just not give a **** about them in your love for this insane president..........-

Wiseone said:

Holy **** I really think you've gone off the deepend here buddy.

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Do left wingers like you ever bring anything to the table or do you just continue to attack other members of the forum...Why don't you just put me on your ignore list...........Unlike some of your left wing friends you bring zilch to the table................thanks.............

Navy Pride said:

Maybe you have not noticed that I directed this thread to military retirees who if your daddy Obama ramrods this socialist health care program that no one has even seen will lose their present medical care plan that was promised to them by virtue of making the military a career or do you just not give a **** about them in your love for this insane president..........-

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Lies and right-wing propoganda. You are listening to the insurance companies who are desperate. You are buying into their hype.....but I'm not surprised. Some people believe everything that right-wing radio tells them. Sad....

Navy Pride said:

Do you want to provide every citizen with a home, car, 3 squares and a job from cradle to grave my socialist friend? Is there anything a citizen in this country should get on his own?

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Ever saw a corporate insurance company that you didn't love?

Is there anything that corporations should not be able to milk profit from?

Navy Pride said:

Do you want to provide every citizen with a home, car, 3 squares and a job from cradle to grave my socialist friend?

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Maybe not a car, but I dont see the problem with helping citizens have a home, food on the table, clean water to drink, medical care, access to electricity, and the opportunity to work.

Is there anything a citizen in this country should get on his own?

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Is there any reason helping provide basic necessities for those who have a hard time managing on their own is a bad thing?

Navy, I'm a new 2LT in the Army, my tricare coverage is better than ever.
As insults, you really have no room to talk.
As for being a left-winger, hardly. I'm apolitical for a reason, to distance myself from the mud slinging.
And just for your information, because I never stated my position on this healthcare bill or the idea of universal healthcare, but I know you've managed to define my position for me, I'm actually not in favor of this bill from a strictly budgetary perspective.

Navy Pride said:

.......We were promised free medical care for life if we made the Military a career....

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Somebody lied to you.

Military Health Care:
The Issue of “Promised” Benefits

Many military health care beneficiaries, particularly military retirees, their dependents, and those representing their interests, state that they were promised “free health care for life at military facilities” as part of their “contractual agreement” when they entered the armed forces. Efforts to locate authoritative documentation of such promises have not been successful. Congressional report language and recent court decisions have rejected retiree claims seeking ‘free care at military facilities’ as a right or entitlement.

[...]

Without explicit authorization from Congress, such benefits can not be created nor conferred by the military or others. A search of the relevant literature shows that at no time did Congress authorize rules and regulations providing “free health care for life at military facilities” for military retirees.


http://www.law.umaryland.edu/marshall/crsreports/crsdocuments/98-1006_F.pdf

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Wiseone said:

Navy, I'm a new 2LT in the Army, my tricare coverage is better than ever.
As insults, you really have no room to talk.
As for being a left-winger, hardly. I'm apolitical for a reason, to distance myself from the mud slinging.
And just for your information, because I never stated my position on this healthcare bill or the idea of universal healthcare, but I know you've managed to define my position for me, I'm actually not in favor of this bill from a strictly budgetary perspective.

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Thank you for your service........Your tricare might be OK now. but if Obama rams this bill through it changes big time.

BWG said:

Somebody lied to you.

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You got that right and so was everyone else in the military and it was actually free until Clinton was elected........

BWG said:

Somebody lied to you.

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And yet...hundreds of thousands if not millions DO receive this aparently magical non-benefit as a condition of the servicemebers 20 year commitment. Strange...

Hoplite said:

Is there any reason helping provide basic necessities for those who have a hard time managing on their own is a bad thing?

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I have no problem with it as long as the bolded text is adhered to.

Speaking of socialist health care, just what company does provide health care to our retired military these days? Champus? Or has that all changed? Is this health care no longer provided by the government?

If so, and it is still a government socialist healthcare program, how does it stack up to the private health care insurance other folks have?

I heard the VA hospitals fall short. Do military retirees have to go to a VA or can they go to a doctor/hospital of their choice just as if they weren't on socialist healthcare.

How does all that work?

Captain America said:

Speaking of socialist health care, just what company does provide health care to our retired military these days? Champus? Or has that all changed? Is this health care no longer provided by the government?

If so, and it is still a government socialist healthcare program, how does it stack up to the private health care insurance other folks have?

I heard the VA hospitals fall short. Do military retirees have to go to a VA or can they go to a doctor/hospital of their choice just as if they weren't on socialist healthcare.

How does all that work?

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We will disagree as to the 'socialist' nature of the health care. Ive been places, seen things, experienced things, and done things that more than paid for my benefits as contracted. I also have wrecked knees (5 operations on my left, 2 on my right), can hardly hear in my left ear and have constant dual-tone tinitus in the right so that peoples spoken voices sound like computer aided voices. I have migraine onset 3-5 times a week. My left shoulder has been operated on 3 times. I spent a total of 7 years separated from my family. I paid for every doctors visit...believe me.

And Im sorry...truly...you will NEVER see me post that again. Not trying to come across as self pitying or wanting any pity. I feel blessed. Ive worked with people that will deal with far worse problems. And some that wont deal with anything again...ever. You get the point. Im just saying...when one joins the military NO ONE tells them...dude...you are so lucky...you get FREE housing and FREE healthcare. We get told you will get crappy pay...no overtime...the government will dictate your assignment locations, combat assignments, etc. And if YOU are willing to work for this you will get this in return. And we earn every one of those benefits. Just like the average Joe that goes to work for a company and earns HIS or HER benefit package.

So...

Tricare is the current contract provider.

Horror stories aside, I think the VA gives OUTSTANDING care and service. The misconception though is that the VA provides services to all veterans. thats not the case. The VA provides services only to disabled vets (people that have incurred a lifetime disability while on active duty). No idea as to the percentages...id guess it was around 20-30 percent of ALL servicemen and women.

disneydude said:

Perhaps its because I believe that others should have access to healthcare and that maybe healthcare shouldn't be a luxury that only an elite few should have.

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An elite few? This is hyperoble born of desperation.
If there are 30M uninsured in the country -- the number of people The Obama's plan is supposed to cover -- then >270,000,000 people have the luxury of health care.

Healthcare for profit makes ZERO ZERO ZERO sense.

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Except that profit drives competition, increases quality, lowers cost and incents innovation.
Socialism has the reverse effect.

disneydude said:

Just look at all the money that the corporate insurance companies are pouring in to try to defeat healthcare reform.....

THAT should give you a good clue on which party supports large corporate interests and which party wants REAL reform that will help the American people.

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Ah -- the claim of moral high ground.

The dems arent worried about reform, they're worried about gaining and retaining as much partisan political power as they can.

Their useful idiots are happy to oblige them.

Hoplite said:

Is there any reason helping provide basic necessities for those who have a hard time managing on their own is a bad thing?

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Obviously.

It teaches that there are no real consequnces for the bad decisions you make, and is no different that replacing your kids' toys every time they destroy or lose them.

YOU, not anyone else, are responsible for YOUR bad decisions.

Goobieman said:

An elite few? This is hyperoble born of desperation.
If there are 30M uninsured in the country -- the number of people The Obama's plan is supposed to cover -- then >270,000,000 people have the luxury of health care.


Except that profit drives competition, increases quality, lowers cost and incents innovation.
Socialism has the reverse effect.

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"Healthcare for profit makes ZERO ZERO ZERO sense."

Thats a pretty asenine statement. I suppose lawyers expecting profit for their services are ****ing satan. Firemen should work for the mere joy of service. Anyone doing ANYTHING for profit is evil.

Mind you...that 8 year dedication to school, mountain of debt, years of residency...why...NO ONE should expect fair remuneration for their services. And hospitals and drug companies should just eat every cost...

And the sky should be purple...too...like on THAT planet...

Why doesn't anyone actually provide some specific arguments for or against the bill? Most of what I have been hearing is just ideology rants. Something that pretty much everyone agrees on is that there needs to be health reform, it's just what shape that health reform takes that people differ on. So why not look at the actual bill that is before us right now, see what changes it is likely to cause, and make some concrete arguments as to whether those changes would be good or bad for America. For example...

-Should health care reform include requiring most Americans to buy health insurance? If someone uninsured ends up sick and in the emergency room, then the cost is spread out to everyone else anyways, so why is this a bad option? We have mandatory car insurance and that seems to work out fine. And a benefit is that the market will have millions of new customers. How would you make health care reform work if you didn't require everyone to buy insurance?

-Insurance companies would face new federal regulations, such as no denying people for preexisting conditions, but why is that a bad thing? Would it be such a bad thing that they can't raise an entire state's premiums 30% overnight?

-Medicare is full of waste and fraud, so you would think people would be happy to hear that there are going to be cuts that would force hospitals to be efficient, but I'm hearing complaints. Why?

-Medicaid would be expanded to include low income people. Since the public option is off the table, and the private insurers have no interest in serving those who can't afford their service, what other option would there be?

-There will be new taxes on the health care industry among others. But we have to get the money to pay for health care reform from somewhere no matter how we go about it. What other options are available? Why not tax the health care industry?

-There are a lot of benefits to this bill. It could reduce the federal deficit. It could eliminate the prescription coverage gap. Ect.

Instead of playing the "government takeover" and "socialism" cards, which have become virtually meaningless given how most people in this thread have used them, why not talk about the specifics and what alternative options are available. Maybe the fact that this bill is unpopular means that it is the right option for America because it forces everyone to compromise on something.

CriticalThought said:

-There will be new taxes on the health care industry among others. But we have to get the money to pay for health care reform from somewhere no matter how we go about it. What other options are available? Why not tax the health care industry?

-There are a lot of benefits to this bill. It could reduce the federal deficit. It could eliminate the prescription coverage gap. Ect.

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Over the next 10 years, the healthcare bill will cost $940 billion to reduce the deficit $138 billion. Where do they get the money? Fees and excise taxes.