CNN poll: 52% say Obama doesn't deserve reelection in 2012

Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

USA-1 said:

Bush already led this country over the cliff. He doubled the debt and destroyed the economy. Remember? Obama is trying to climb back up. He is using spending to pull us out of the recession just like Reagan did. Just like FDR did.
Bush 2009 budget 3.1 trillion
Obama 2010 budget 3.6 Trillion.

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First off you are using a disingenuous comparison to make it appear as though Obama is doing the same as GWB. If you really want to compare apples to apples then you should compare GWB's 2001 budget to Obama's today.


Then I would pose a simple question to you. If you were sitting around your kitchen table with the Mrs. and you both saw that your current debt was more than you could handle, and your income was curtailed back by say 20%, would your solution be to go out and spend more on the credit cards that are already maxed out? My guess is like most Americans the answer would be 'ofcourse not!' So then why do you see it as an acceptable solution for Obama?


j-mac

Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

Zyphlin said:

Polls like this are rather idiotic imho and don't tell us much.

I'm really not a fan of Ruby Tuesdays. Its not a bad place but I don't like it much and I've got some pretty horrible service recently that turned me off. If asked if I'd want to go there for dinner I'd say no in a general sense. However if the option was cached "Would you rather go to Ruby Tuesdays or Red Lobster" and I'm allergic to seafood, well, despite my desire not to go to Ruby Tuesdays it'd still probably be my choice.

What I'm saying is until you can match Obama up with someone else and ask "who would you rather", these kind of polls tell us relatively little in terms of actual useful predictive material for 2012

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If you are saying that these types of snapshot polls are nothing to hang a hat on, then I would agree with you. But, you can not deny that currently demo's seem to be thumbing their noses at the people, Obama included, and that will not end well should they continue.


j-mac

If Obama's policies fail, will the left finally admit that this crap doesn't work and consider options different from they've pushed for the last 40 years?

Navy, have you ever heard of "confirmation bias" or "cognitive dissonance?"

Navy Pride said:

You know I have never been polled on a presidents approval not have any of my friends who are overwhemingly conservative........Most of the polls with a few exceptions are done by the whacked out leftwing media so that might explain te poll..............Imagine that...........:roll:

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Navy Pride said:

I personally am hesitant to believe polls by CNN because they are awfully bias to the left............

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Navy Pride said:

That is why polls don't really mean squat becasue some people will say they will vote for Obama but when they are in he ballot box it won't happen.............

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Navy Pride said:

when I see one of these lefties post a poll from a left wing rag like Newsweek I have to re butt that one.........

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Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

j-mac said:

First off you are using a disingenuous comparison to make it appear as though Obama is doing the same as GWB. If you really want to compare apples to apples then you should compare GWB's 2001 budget to Obama's today.


Then I would pose a simple question to you. If you were sitting around your kitchen table with the Mrs. and you both saw that your current debt was more than you could handle, and your income was curtailed back by say 20%, would your solution be to go out and spend more on the credit cards that are already maxed out? My guess is like most Americans the answer would be 'ofcourse not!' So then why do you see it as an acceptable solution for Obama?


j-mac

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Wrong. You compare one years budget to the following years budget. What happened in 2001 is ancient history.
The increase in spending was Bernankes idea to get us out of the recession. He is the one that said we needed a stimulus package in the first place. I don't agree with it but that was their plan to fix the economy that collapsed under Bush. I doubt if the spending plan will save us but you guys would be whining more if Obama did nothing and we had a total collapse.
I will wait and see where we are in 3 years before I decide who I am voting for. If things are better and the country is on the right track I would consider Obama. If not, then libertarian or independant would be my choice. The republicans have already proven they can not be trusted with control of this country.

Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

USA-1 said:

Wrong. You compare one years budget to the following years budget. What happened in 2001 is ancient history.
The increase in spending was Bernankes idea to get us out of the recession. He is the one that said we needed a stimulus package in the first place. I don't agree with it but that was their plan to fix the economy that collapsed under Bush. I doubt if the spending plan will save us but you guys would be whining more if Obama did nothing and we had a total collapse.
I will wait and see where we are in 3 years before I decide who I am voting for. If things are better and the country is on the right track I would consider Obama. If not, then libertarian or independant would be my choice. The republicans have already proven they can not be trusted with control of this country.

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There never was a question about spending but the question arises as how the govt. spends the taxpayer money. Reagan and Bush both understood that you stimulate the economy through the private sector, not the public sector.

Private job creation is real job creation and creates long term jobs and thus long term taxpayers. Govt. spending on the public sector creates make work projects, short term jobs and short term taxpayers. Govt. growth is unsustainable.

Everything Obama is doing is right out of the Saul Alinsky book for radicals. He is promoting the growth in the public sector and continues to demonize the private sector. Not sure what is being taught in our schools today but to continue to demonize the private sector will destroy our country and is destroying our economy.

Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

chevydriver1123 said:

This November will be a clear indicator.

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No it won't. Reagan got his ass kicked in 1982 and swept the nation in 1984. Similar things have happened pretty regularly. The party was considering whether to even RUN Reagan in 1984 it was so bad. Now days people think he's a saint.

Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

j-mac said:

Then I would pose a simple question to you. If you were sitting around your kitchen table with the Mrs. and you both saw that your current debt was more than you could handle, and your income was curtailed back by say 20%, would your solution be to go out and spend more on the credit cards that are already maxed out? My guess is like most Americans the answer would be 'ofcourse not!' So then why do you see it as an acceptable solution for Obama?

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You're making to fallacy that a country is like a personal account. When I spend money, it's just debt. When the government spends money, it can help to bolster the economy. That money isn't going to buy Obama his own personal Ski-Doo, it's being spent on various programs that help people who are unemployed or it creates jobs, or things like that. It's pumping money into the economy. The government needs to be counter-cyclical. The nineties and most of the aughts, when things were good, that is when you try to balance the budget. When every thing's hit the fan like now, the government spending money helps us pull through and end the recession.

Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

Obama's detractors said over and over again that Obama would "cut and run" from Iraq, and "destroy the world's greatest health care system".

Obama's supporters, at least the furthest left of them, said, "Oh, boy! He'll end the war in Iraq, and pass universal health care!"

Obama never did advocate a precipitous withdrawal from Iraq. He did advocate for health care reform, which hasn't happened and probably won't.

Now, his detractors wouldn't vote for him if he were running against Beelzebub, so their opinions matter very little anyway.

His supporters, the ones described above anyway, are disappointed that we're still fighting in the ME, and that we don't have universal health care.

Meanwhile, the economy is still sputtering. It may be coming back around, and it may not. The attempts to revive it have resulted in a staggering debt that democrats want to blame on Bush, and Republicans want to blame on Obama. They're both partially correct, as both advocated deficit spending, but they're forgetting about Congress.

So, naturally, Obama's support is dropping.

Now, will he be reelected?

What is going to happen with the economy in the next two years? How about the wars in the ME, will they heat up again? How about Iran, will they test a nuclear device? Who will the Republicans nominate in '12? How many congressional Democrats will be replaced by Republicans in '10? How vigorously will they oppose Obama, and how successfully?

Answer those questions, and you will be able to make a pretty good prediction about the outcome of the next election.

Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

What is going to happen with the economy in the next two years? How about the wars in the ME, will they heat up again? How about Iran, will they test a nuclear device? Who will the Republicans nominate in '12? How many congressional Democrats will be replaced by Republicans in '10? How vigorously will they oppose Obama, and how successfully?

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If I could answer those, i'd be a rich man, I'm sure.

Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

Conservative said:

There never was a question about spending but the question arises as how the govt. spends the taxpayer money. Reagan and Bush both understood that you stimulate the economy through the private sector, not the public sector.
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That's funny. They both were totally irresponsible when it came to government spending.
You do know Reagans stimulus lasted only as long as his presidency. Bush I had to clean up his mess. And do you remember his Savings and Loan crisis that cost taxpayers 200 billion?

Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

the makeout hobo said:

No it won't. Reagan got his ass kicked in 1982 and swept the nation in 1984. Similar things have happened pretty regularly. The party was considering whether to even RUN Reagan in 1984 it was so bad. Now days people think he's a saint.

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What is it that Obama has proposed or implemented that you support and has made things better?

I was around during the 80's, were you old enough to know the state of the economy then? There was never any question that Reagan would be nominated and wouldn't win in a landslide.

Reagan got it, you stimulate the economy through the private sector, not the public sector like Obama is doing. His across the board tax cuts that were passed in August 1981 started turning this country around in 1982 until we were in a full fledge recover in 1983. Reagan's record is one that Obama is running from and thus the results will not be the same.

Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

USA-1 said:

That's funny. They both were totally irresponsible when it came to government spending.
You do know Reagans stimulus lasted only as long as his presidency. Bush I had to clean up his mess.

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LOL, were you old enough in the 80's to understand the economy that Reagan did inherit? Reagan actually inherited a disaster whereas Obama while in the Senate helped create the disaster.

Reagan economy doubled govt. revenue, doubled GDP, and created over 20 million jobs. That is confirmed by BEA.gov and BLS.gov

Obama is stimulating the growth of govt, not the growth of the private sector which is what Reagan focused on. GHW Bush lost because he abandoned Reaganomics and his "read my lips" comments are similar to Obama's "if you make less than 250,000 your taxes will not go up one dime"

I sure wish that people who didn't work or actually experience the 80's would stop trying to re-write the history of the 80's. There are some great non partisan sites to get the facts. My personal income doubled in the 80's just like the Government's

Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

Check out what happened to the national debt during the era of "trickle down" economics:

Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

USA-1 said:

You of all people should support Obama . After all he is finally going after terrorists in Afghanistan. He is doing what Bush should have done 7 years ago.

It is way too early to judge Obama. It is only the start of his second year. It is not 1980. If the economy starts turning around in a couple of years no one will have a chance against Obama. If things get worse, Obama is gone.

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I love how Obama is representative of whether the economy improves / declines, where other branches, reasoning don't set in.

So when did he state withdrawal of troops would fully take effect? Mid-summer 2011? I doubt it'll end there...

niftydrifty said:

Navy, have you ever heard of "confirmation bias" or "cognitive dissonance?"

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Boy you had to dig for those quotes......

Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

Dittohead not! said:

Check out what happened to the national debt during the era of "trickle down" economics:

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Trickle down economics had nothing to do with creating the debt but like with all debt it has to do with govt. spending too much money. If you think that is bad Obama is blowing that chart out of the water.

Clinton had the peace dividend created by Reagan but that fact is never stated and Bush had the cost of 9/11 again that is forgotten.

Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

Conservative said:

What is it that Obama has proposed or implemented that you support and has made things better?

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I think the stimulus and similar acts have been good for the economy, as well as financial reform packages we'll hopefully get through.

I was around during the 80's, were you old enough to know the state of the economy then? There was never any question that Reagan would be nominated and wouldn't win in a landslide.

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Why not? I wasn't quite there, so I'm interested in hearing your version of things.

Reagan got it, you stimulate the economy through the private sector, not the public sector like Obama is doing. His across the board tax cuts that were passed in August 1981 started turning this country around in 1982 until we were in a full fledge recover in 1983. Reagan's record is one that Obama is running from and thus the results will not be the same.

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Obama has passed huge tax cuts, they were part of the stimulus. He has been trying to cut taxes while raising spending. If you remember though, Reagan's Republicans took a beating in 1982, so don't get too cocky.

American said:

If Obama's policies fail, will the left finally admit that this crap doesn't work and consider options different from they've pushed for the last 40 years?

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Noper. Liberal/socialist/marxist/leftist inspired policies/theories/practices always fail....and always come back.

Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

the makeout hobo;1058573479]I think the stimulus and similar acts have been good for the economy, as well as financial reform packages we'll hopefully get through.

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The stimulus was supposed to cap unemployment at 8% and it exceeded 10% and is closer to 16% when you count all the eligible workers millions of whom have dropped out of the labor market. What exactly did the stimulus plan stimulate?

Why not? I wasn't quite there, so I'm interested in hearing your version of things.

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Reagan cut taxes 25% over three years putting more money into the taxpayers hands. That stimulated 20 million new jobs and thus new taxpayers. It isn't a version it is reality.

People spending their own money is what stimulates the economy not govt. spending. Think about how having more money affects you and what you do with the money? Multiply that by 160 million workers who pay taxes and got to keep more of their money.

Obama has passed huge tax cuts, they were part of the stimulus. He has been trying to cut taxes while raising spending. If you remember though, Reagan's Republicans took a beating in 1982, so don't get too cocky

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Sorry but that isn't correct, his was a rebate and those that got the tax cuts now have to pay most if it back by being in a higher tax bracket.

Getting cocky isn't what I do but I wonder why people like you support what Obama is doing? What did you learn in school as to the role of the Federal Govt? Think Reagan or Obama got it right?

Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

the makeout hobo;
Obama has passed huge tax cuts, they were part of the stimulus. He has been trying to cut taxes while raising spending. If you remember though, Reagan's Republicans took a beating in 1982, so don't get too cocky

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Better check your numbers because the GOP did not take a beating in 1982

The GOP picked up 2 Seats in the Senate but did lose House Seats in the 1982 elections

Dutch said:

Noper. Liberal/socialist/marxist/leftist inspired policies/theories/practices always fail....and always come back.

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You really have it all wrong. I just don't understand the ideological "it must be always the way I imagine it, or nothing" stance. To say that any left-leaning anything will always fail, is just as idiotic as saying that it will always work.

Look, sometimes the market is good, sometimes it inspires corruption. sometimes regulation hurts, and sometimes it helps. sometimes the government can run things, and sometimes it shouldn't.

That's why most people self identify as moderates. Because it's obvious that every problem has a variety of solutions, problems don't resemble each other, and that times change.

Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

Conservative said:

Better check your numbers because the GOP did not take a beating in 1982

The GOP picked up 2 Seats in the Senate but did lose House Seats in the 1982 elections

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They lost 27 house seats. That's a beating as far as I'm concerned. And according to wiki, in the senate it was a tie, neither side really gained a seat.

Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

the makeout hobo said:

They lost 27 house seats. That's a beating as far as I'm concerned. And according to wiki, in the senate it was a tie, neither side really gained a seat.

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No, the Senate went from 53 to 55 GOP Senators, that isn't a tie. Yes, the GOP lost Representatives but gained them back in 1984. Reagan inherited a disaster, Obama contributed to the one he "inherited"

Re: Only 44% say they would vote Obama in 2012

Conservative said:

No, the Senate went from 53 to 55 GOP Senators, that isn't a tie. Yes, the GOP lost Representatives but gained them back in 1984. Reagan inherited a disaster, Obama contributed to the one he "inherited"

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Chris Hecht (R) won in Nevada
Paul Trible (R) won in Virginia
Frank Lautenberg (D) won in New Jersey
Jeff Bingaman (D) won in New Mexico

Which race am i missing here?