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A 16-year old girl buried alive in Turkey

Yet another reason Turkey is not ready for the EU.......;)

Turkey has arrested the parents, and is prosecuting them. Why say that this act represents the nation of Turkey? If that is so, then I guess, by your own logic, that Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer represent America, right.
 
Turkey has arrested the parents, and is prosecuting them. Why say that this act represents the nation of Turkey? If that is so, then I guess, by your own logic, that Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer represent America, right.


The Turkish government may be secular to a point. I say to a point because they are not doing a very good job of protecting the christain minority from oppression and persecution by the religion of peace (HA!) majority. I say its time for the world to reject Islam and muslims until they reform their religion.(ain't gonna happen).

You will say thet America was founded on a priciple of freedom of religion. I agree, however Islam IMO is not a religion, it is an evil cult.

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"Most Muslims--and bin Laden is in the Islamic mainstream--believe separating church and states is apostasy." p. 2


"That threat is sharpened by the fact that bin Laden's ideas are grounded in and powered by the tenets of Islam, divine guidelines that are completely familiar to most of the world's billion plus Muslims and lived by them on a daily basis." -Imperial Hubris, p.xviii

"To start, I want for now to avoid debate over whether bin Laden preaches and practices an aberrant form of Islam, as well as charges--almost always by non-Muslims--that he is merely a deranged killer using religious rhetoric to justify his attacks. And though I think both accusations wrong, I will not argue against them here."


Indeed. But not just any 'ol product.

"Osama bin Laden, after all, is not an aberrant product of Saudi society--he is the poster boy." p.73

Michael Scheuer Imperial Hubris

Well i would like to know where Scheuer is getting his information from here, you would think that if Bin Laden was that mainstream then parties sympathetic to his values would have been elected in Pakistan Bangladesh
and Kosovo.
 
Well i would like to know where Scheuer is getting his information from here,
Considering he was the head of the CIAs bin Laden unit, he is privy to sources well outside our ability to reach or have access to and he knows a lot about OBL.

you would think that if Bin Laden was that mainstream then parties sympathetic to his values would have been elected in Pakistan Bangladesh
and Kosovo.
The Libertarians have never had much if any electoral success in the US. That doesn't mean they aren't within the mainstream.
 
I say its time for the world to reject Islam and muslims until they reform their religion.(ain't gonna happen).
That would only serve to inflame the situation even further and therefore hinder our efforts and undermine our interests.

And it would provide further fodder for the radicals to say we are waging a war against the religion of Islam, while not providing any substantive value or return on our efforts. It would do nothing to help so-called moderate Muslims gain or solidify their power, but only serve to hamper their efforts.

We need to think strategically. And ally with the moderate forces in Islamic societies to undermine the radicals. You're position seems to be emotively derived with no concern for the overall larger picture or our national interests in the region.

And, one last point, what would you propose the US do about Muslims living peacefully and productively within it's own communities???
 
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Considering he was the head of the CIAs bin Laden unit, he is privy to sources well outside our ability to reach or have access to and he knows a lot about OBL.


The Libertarians have never had much if any electoral success in the US. That doesn't mean they aren't within the mainstream.

Well the libertarians arent in the mainstream, if they were more people would vote for them. Il ask again, if Bin Laden's views are so popular why have they not enjoyed electoral success?
 
Well the libertarians arent in the mainstream, if they were more people would vote for them.

Your logic is flawed.

Of course they are in the mainstream. They are merely a minority and that doesn't mean they aren't in the mainstream. By your logic any group of people that doesn't have a political party elected to office is out of the mainstream and that's simply not true. The Democratic and Republican parties, while within the mainstream, aren't the definition of mainstream or the sole groups that define it. They are coalitions of many smaller groups.

Il ask again, if Bin Laden's views are so popular why have they not enjoyed electoral success?
Your question betrays your misunderstanding of OBL's position. He is against democracy.
 
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Your logic is flawed.

Of course they are in the mainstream. They are merely a minority and that doesn't mean they aren't in the mainstream. By your logic any group of people that doesn't have a political party elected to office is out of the mainstream and that's simply not true. The Democratic and Republican parties, while within the mainstream, aren't the definition of mainstream or the sole groups that define it. They are coalitions of many smaller groups.


Your question betrays your misunderstanding of OBL's position. He is against democracy.

'Mainstream' is described Wikipedia as 'generally, the common current of thought of the majority' thus neither the libertarian party nor Bin Laden are mainstream, but we can argue semantics all week. What i was originally questioning was whether Bin Ladens opinions were representative of the majority of the worlds Muslims.

And just because Bin Laden and his ilk don't believe in democratic systems doesn't mean they wont participate in them. Fascist and Marxist-Leninist parties do this across the world as do Islamist parties. Again in most cases they have failed to gain the support of the majority. Pakistan has an Islamist party who's support tends to hover around 10% of the vote, why dont the rest of Pakistan's Muslims vote for them?
 
Define the muslim mainstream.

Its one billion people, im not even sure there can be a mainstream. But in this context we are talking about whether or not the majority supports the views propagated by Bin Laden. And as i said to Scummy D if Bin Laden's views are those of the majority why do they not enjoy electoral support?
 
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Its one billion people, im not even sure there can be a mainstream. But in this context we are talking about whether or not the majority supports the views propagated by Bin Laden. And as i said to Scummy D if Bin Laden's views are those of the majority why do they not enjoy electoral support?
And as I noted, you betray your misunderstanding of OBL by speaking of elections when he opposes democracy.
 
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That would only serve to inflame the situation even further and therefore hinder our efforts and undermine our interests.

And it would provide further fodder for the radicals to say we are waging a war against the religion of Islam, while not providing any substantive value or return on our efforts. It would do nothing to help so-called moderate Muslims gain or solidify their power, but only serve to hamper their efforts.

We need to think strategically. And ally with the moderate forces in Islamic societies to undermine the radicals. You're position seems to be emotively derived with no concern for the overall larger picture or our national interests in the region.

And, one last point, what would you propose the US do about Muslims living peacefully and productively within it's own communities???

I totally agree (here we go with the agreement thing again Scummy, WTF)! The EU should allow Turkey to join, there are many reasons for them to do that, with the encouragement of Muslim participation and integration being only one of them.

Every country has it's fringe nutjobs, Western Europe isn't free of them. Germany, one of the most dominant EU countries, has neo-Nazis etc.
 
Its one billion people, im not even sure there can be a mainstream. But in this context we are talking about whether or not the majority supports the views propagated by Bin Laden. And as i said to Scummy D if Bin Laden's views are those of the majority why do they not enjoy electoral support?

According to this pew support a minority in many tho not all muslim countries. That still leaves a great number of supporters.

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According to this pew support a minority in many tho not all muslim countries. That still leaves a great number of supporters.

1338-2.gif

That makes interesting reading, you wonder what the hell is happening in Nigeria. Still the fact Bin Laden's supporters are a minority, even if they are a significant one means that its inaccurate to quote him as if he is somehow representative of Islam as a whole. My point still stands
 
It would nice to have a story in English.


Right, because it makes sense to bar their entry based on the actions of one family?:roll:

Until those responsible are in prison for the rest of their lives. Yes, it does.

It's sends a message that islamonazi bull**** will not be tolerated.
 
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