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Is US bullying Toyota on recall?

American

American

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By Mira Oberman (AFP) – 8 hours ago
CHICAGO — The US transportation chief's public rebukes of Toyota's handling of a massive safety recall have raised eyebrows, given the US government's major stake in rivals General Motors and Chrysler.
"The optics are terrible because -- and this is what happens when a government owns a company - the two companies that are going to gain the most out of this are General Motors and Chrysler," said Peter Morici, a professor at the University of Maryland's business school.
"But their behavior is consistent with the general policy of the US government, whether it's dealing with coffeemakers or cars."
Safety officials understand that product design mistakes are inevitable and will work to help companies correct the problem and alert consumers. But they will not tolerate a slow or weak response, Morici told AFP.
Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood sat down with reporters Wednesday to lay out a timeline of how US officials had "pushed Toyota to take corrective actions" on its pedal problems since 2007.
The meeting came a day after he issued a statement accusing the Japanese automaker of dragging its feet on recalling vehicles in danger of sudden, unintended acceleration due to pedals which could get trapped under floor mats or become "sticky."
He also caused a brief panic when he told a congressional panel that owners of 5.3 million Toyota vehicles affected by the recalls should "stop driving" them.
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Who thinks Toyota is today's climate would waste anytime in moving forward to correct a problem that would hurt its sterling reputation for quality and reliability? I don't think so. I did a search of NHTSA and could not find where the govt had been pushing Toyota since 2007 to fix this, nor could I find anything more than there was an instance regarding the floor mat issue, and the dealer could not duplicate it.
 
American said:
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Who thinks Toyota is today's climate would waste anytime in moving forward to correct a problem that would hurt its sterling reputation for quality and reliability? I don't think so. I did a search of NHTSA and could not find where the govt had been pushing Toyota since 2007 to fix this, nor could I find anything more than there was an instance regarding the floor mat issue, and the dealer could not duplicate it.
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oh boy...toyota had a floormat recall in 2007.

Earlier Recall of Floor Mats
In November 2007, Toyota recalled its all-weather mats in the 2007 and early 2008 ES 350s and Camrys after owners complained that the mats could slip forward and entrap the gas pedal if they were not properly attached to the floor. It is unclear whether the floor mat being looked at in the Saylor accident were among those previously recalled.


Toyota Orders Inspection of All Lexus Floor Mats After Fatal Accident — Attorney At Law
 
Well, Mr. "Slightly Liberal," I dunno. I don't have enough facts to make a conclusion on this. I do want to see the timeline for myself that LaHood alleges exists. And I am interested in the testimony that will be provided by Toyota on this.

My family has been a loyal to Toyota for more than 20 years! I was planning on getting the hybrid Highlander this year. This whole thing has caused me to pause about this decision.
 
aps said:
Well, Mr. "Slightly Liberal," I dunno. I don't have enough facts to make a conclusion on this. I do want to see the timeline for myself that LaHood alleges exists. And I am interested in the testimony that will be provided by Toyota on this.

My family has been a loyal to Toyota for more than 20 years! I was planning on getting the hybrid Highlander this year. This whole thing has caused me to pause about this decision.
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I have also owned many Toyota vehicles of different kinds, and never had a problem like this. I have no doubt that Toyota is taking the seriously and responding with the highest possible vigor to resolve this.
 
American said:
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Who thinks Toyota is today's climate would waste anytime in moving forward to correct a problem that would hurt its sterling reputation for quality and reliability? I don't think so. I did a search of NHTSA and could not find where the govt had been pushing Toyota since 2007 to fix this, nor could I find anything more than there was an instance regarding the floor mat issue, and the dealer could not duplicate it.
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Their sterling reputation is getting hit right now regardless considering the nature of the issues they are dealing with right now. The Prius' brake problems are potentially deadly.

But looking at the numbers, Toyota is expecting to take a 2 bilion dolar hit over this recall. This is not including expenses and sales losses over the Prius issue.

With corporations, the battle between the bottom line and quality is never-ending and all too often, quality will be the loser of this battle. Just look at the decline of other auto manufacturers over the last few decades.

I'm not sure if they are dragging their feet on it, but I wouldn't use the risk to their reputation as an argument to indicate that they aren't. It wouldn't be the fist time the bottom line caused a company to tank it's reputation, nor would it be the last.
 
Tucker Case said:
Their sterling reputation is getting hit right now regardless considering the nature of the issues they are dealing with right now. The Prius' brake problems are potentially deadly.

But looking at the numbers, Toyota is expecting to take a 2 bilion dolar hit over this recall. This is not including expenses and sales losses over the Prius issue.

With corporations, the battle between the bottom line and quality is never-ending and all too often, quality will be the loser of this battle. Just look at the decline of other auto manufacturers over the last few decades.

I'm not sure if they are dragging their feet on it, but I wouldn't use the risk to their reputation as an argument to indicate that they aren't. It wouldn't be the fist time the bottom line caused a company to tank it's reputation, nor would it be the last.
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After over 40 years of a solid reputation how can you lean toward the side of the bottomline argument? No benefit of the doubt for Toyota, they are just as likely to be crooked as the Big Three who've had decades of quality issues right?
 
American said:
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Who thinks Toyota is today's climate would waste anytime in moving forward to correct a problem that would hurt its sterling reputation for quality and reliability? I don't think so. I did a search of NHTSA and could not find where the govt had been pushing Toyota since 2007 to fix this, nor could I find anything more than there was an instance regarding the floor mat issue, and the dealer could not duplicate it.
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I've been thinking that this is being made a huge deal about to help U.S. automakers. That has been my gut feeling on hearing the over-coverage of this story.
 
American said:
After over 40 years of a solid reputation how can you lean toward the side of the bottomline argument? No benefit of the doubt for Toyota, they are just as likely to be crooked as the Big Three who've had decades of quality issues right?
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This is no isolated incident. They've had a string of issues over the recent years, culminating in two concurrent recalls (both with a high potential for causing fatalities), their reputation deserves to come under scrutiny.

These are more than just floor mats. They mistakenly attributed it to floor mats, but there was another fatal crash in a car that didn't even have the floormats in it (because the driver followed Toyota's advice from it's first recall of this issue and placed the floormats into the trunk, which is where the mats were found sometime after the dead bodies were removed from the car).

On top of this, they've got brakes that don't work on the Prius. (thankfully the gas pedal problem doesn't seem to be an issue with the Prius or things could get really dicey).

The ability to control a car is the #1 most important aspect of safety a car can have. Toyota has absolutely sucked in this department considering the nature of these two massively dangerous recalls.
 
That being said, they voluntarily suspended sales and production on 8 models last week, which leads me to believe they aren't dragging their feet on the issue.

I think they originally didn't diagnose the issue correctly. The fact that they suspended all production as well as sales, though, is a pretty good indicator that they are acknowledging the danger of the issue as well.
 
Tucker Case said:
This is no isolated incident. They've had a string of issues over the recent years, culminating in two concurrent recalls (both with a high potential for causing fatalities), their reputation deserves to come under scrutiny.

These are more than just floor mats. They mistakenly attributed it to floor mats, but there was another fatal crash in a car that didn't even have the floormats in it (because the driver followed Toyota's advice from it's first recall of this issue and placed the floormats into the trunk, which is where the mats were found sometime after the dead bodies were removed from the car).

On top of this, they've got brakes that don't work on the Prius. (thankfully the gas pedal problem doesn't seem to be an issue with the Prius or things could get really dicey).

The ability to control a car is the #1 most important aspect of safety a car can have. Toyota has absolutely sucked in this department considering the nature of these two massively dangerous recalls.
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Their reputation doesn't need scrutiny, the problems do. The gas pedal issue and the floor mat issue are not one and the same according to Toyota. The govt isn't completely innocent in these investigations either (e.g., Audi 5000), but I'm not suggesting that here. There is not doubt in my mind that Toyota is addressing this post-haste. The fact that the govt is making extra hay about this is what people are suspicious of.
 
I drive an 09 Tacoma. I had carpet floor mats and removed them due to the fact that they were too nice to be ruined by my muddy feet. That problem is solved. My truck is not listed on the recall list. I have had problems with the radio volume control, which I talked about on another similar Toyota thread. That problem has also been solved by replacing the radio with a JVC model I personally installed. My dealer gives me free oil changes and inspections for the life of the vehicle and with a lifetime warranty on the engine. You can't beat that. After seeing the radio problems and with my 3rd radio on order with the same problems, I began to rethink the usual quality of Toyotas. Now this accelerator problem and the brakes have cropped up. By the time I get ready to buy another vehicle, usually in 14 years, Toyota should either have fixed these problems or be out of business.
 
American said:
Their reputation doesn't need scrutiny, the problems do. The gas pedal issue and the floor mat issue are not one and the same according to Toyota. The govt isn't completely innocent in these investigations either (e.g., Audi 5000), but I'm not suggesting that here. There is not doubt in my mind that Toyota is addressing this post-haste. The fact that the govt is making extra hay about this is what people are suspicious of.
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why are you so defensive of a foreign company, american?
 
liblady said:
why are you so defensive of a foreign company, american?
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If you want to accuse me of something why don't you say it in plain English?
 
Any manufactor that puts out a faulty / unsafe product needs to pull the product or fix the issue. That being said, with what is being reported it is not like every Toyota make identified is having stuck throttles everytime it is being driven. What is reported is a very small percentage. Same for the Prius brake issue. I agree the problem needs to be identified and fixed. Any death is to many. But, people die every day in vehicle crashes that had nothing to do with mechanical faults. The way the news is reporting it would would think every Toyota was a death trap each time you start the engine.

I believe Toyota is dealing with the issue the best they can. Heck our 2003 Jeep Liberty has had ball joints recalled twice because of possible rust breakage issues. We never had a problem with the vehicle or any signs it was an issue. IMO, almost every newer vehicle is a "drive by wire" system. That is all manufactors are using computers to control the throttle. This switch was done to improve milage and cut emmissions. The system has been reliable, but like anything mechanical, breakdowns can happen.
 
liblady said:
why are you so defensive of a foreign company, american?
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A foreign company that is a large source of American jobs you mean? People are jumping all over this as if it is a partisan issue, or a US vs Japanese car maker issue, and it is neither. It's a safety issue that is being worked on, and will hopefully be fixed soon.
 
It's a partisan issue because it's likely just another favor to the UAW.

I owned a Chrysler that had about a dozen recalls and I don't hear Obama officials whining about that.
 
Redress said:
A foreign company that is a large source of American jobs you mean? People are jumping all over this as if it is a partisan issue, or a US vs Japanese car maker issue, and it is neither. It's a safety issue that is being worked on, and will hopefully be fixed soon.
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i agree, i'm calling into question WHY he feels obama is "picking on" toyota. it's a not so indirect slam at american automakers, who are now turning out great cars.
 
gopman said:
It's a partisan issue because it's likely just another favor to the UAW.

I owned a Chrysler that had about a dozen recalls and I don't hear Obama officials whining about that.
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I don't think it is a favor to the UAW, I think some one just shot his mouth off without thinking. It really does not benefit the US carmakers, since this will have a minor effect on car sales.
 
American said:
Their reputation doesn't need scrutiny, the problems do. The gas pedal issue and the floor mat issue are not one and the same according to Toyota. The govt isn't completely innocent in these investigations either (e.g., Audi 5000), but I'm not suggesting that here. There is not doubt in my mind that Toyota is addressing this post-haste. The fact that the govt is making extra hay about this is what people are suspicious of.
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There is an argument that this should have been figured out sooner. This is the third recall on the same issue, and now they finally claim they've got it figured out (time will tell, of course). Their reputation for safety is going to take a major hit in this situation, regardless.

When coupled with the problems with the Prius, it looks like the hit is deserved. These are two big safety issues. The reliability stuff is secondary. If this was a single safety issue, I'd give the benefit of the doubt, but it's two separate and distinct safety issues neither one of them minor in nature. These are design flaws in two separate areas related to massively important aspects of their cars.

Somewhere along the line, they are dropping multiple balls on safety.

Thus, they absolutely deserve to take a hit in their reputation on safety. These problems are due to failures in design. For the Prius, the design flaw is software, for the accelerator pedal it's mechanical.

Then, couple in repeated failures to figure out what was going wrong, and you've got a serious safety concern.

On top of that, I would argue that of the "big three", Ford has the best chance of capitalizing in today's market. Judging by the numbers, they have gained the most from it actually. Also, look at the number of Awards Ford has been winning lately. N.A. Car and Truck of the year. 2010 Motor Trend Car of the year, 2009 Motor trend Truck of the year.
 
American said:
So the foreign automaker and italicizing my name meant nothing? :roll:
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yes, it did. i am curious as to why you are defending toyota so vehemently. would you so defend an american automaker?
 
Tucker Case said:
There is an argument that this should have been figured out sooner. This is the third recall on the same issue, and now they finally claim they've got it figured out (time will tell, of course). Their reputation for safety is going to take a major hit in this situation, regardless.

When coupled with the problems with the Prius, it looks like the hit is deserved. These are two big safety issues. The reliability stuff is secondary. If this was a single safety issue, I'd give the benefit of the doubt, but it's two separate and distinct safety issues neither one of them minor in nature. These are design flaws in two separate areas related to massively important aspects of their cars.

Somewhere along the line, they are dropping multiple balls on safety.

Thus, they absolutely deserve to take a hit in their reputation on safety. These problems are due to failures in design. For the Prius, the design flaw is software, for the accelerator pedal it's mechanical.

Then, couple in repeated failures to figure out what was going wrong, and you've got a serious safety concern.

On top of that, I would argue that of the "big three", Ford has the best chance of capitalizing in today's market. Judging by the numbers, they have gained the most from it actually. Also, look at the number of Awards Ford has been winning lately. N.A. Car and Truck of the year. 2010 Motor Trend Car of the year, 2009 Motor trend Truck of the year.
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Recalls happen, safety issues happen. Six months from now this will be mostly forgotten, except hopefully by the engineers who are designing new cars.
 
Redress said:
Recalls happen, safety issues happen. Six months from now this will be mostly forgotten, except hopefully by the engineers who are designing new cars.
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They add up, though. If this is a continuing issue with Toyota, they'll be slammed. Two major ones in a short period of time can stick around for a while, but if they don't screw up for a while, then they'll come though it alright with minimal losses.

At the same time, right now Ford's gaining momentum on everybody, not just Toyota. This type of thing might be enough to nudge them just enough to push them to the top of the heap.

They've got a lot of things going for them right now, and this falter from Toyota might be something they can take advantage of, just as Toyota took advantage of GM faltering to claim the top spot in 2008. Or Ford's faltering earlier in the the decade to surpass them in 2007.
 
liblady said:
yes, it did. i am curious as to why you are defending toyota so vehemently. would you so defend an american automaker?
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You try to force me to answer a question that has nothing to do with this thread. But you go on ahead with what you planned to say.
 
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