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Top Economic Adviser: ‘Of Course’ Recession Isn’t Over

Redress said:
I am just showing the flaws in your argument. It's not about you, it's about the flaws in your argument.
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This thread got trashed when I made negative statements about socialist policies, then started catchng hell for serving the in the military, therefore i must be a hypocrite because you all think that the military is socialism. That's exactly what this thread was about and you're as much a part of it as anyone.
 
apdst said:
This thread got trashed when I made negative statements about socialist policies, then started catchng hell for serving the in the military, therefore i must be a hypocrite because you all think that the military is socialism. That's exactly what this thread was about and you're as much a part of it as anyone.
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That is because your argument was flawed. People are pointing out why you are wrong.
 
apdst said:
How long were you in the service?
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It's not your understanding of the military at question, it's your understanding of the word "socialist".
 
Redress said:
It's not your understanding of the military at question, it's your understanding of the word "socialist".
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That's why I asked her how long she had spent in the service. IOW, does she understand enough about the military to say that it's a social program.
 
apdst said:
That's why I asked her how long she had spent in the service. IOW, does she understand enough about the military to say that it's a social program.
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In the way you are using the term, then yes, the military can be considered a socialist program in that it is a big state run program.
 
Redress said:
In the way you are using the term, then yes, the military can be considered a socialist program in that it is a big state run program.
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No it can't. It's not established strictly to take in the poor and provide the a job, food and housing.
 
apdst said:
No it can't. It's not established strictly to take in the poor and provide the a job, food and housing.
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And that apdst is not socialism. You are describing social welfare.
 
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And this entire thread can be boiled down to simple points regarding apdts's comprehension of socialism.

1. He doesn't know what socialism actually is.

2. He doesn't understand what means of production means.

3. He doesn't understand that the State does not have to produce a good for it to be socialism. It simply has to control the - gasp - means of production and resources. Doctors do not provide a good. They provide a service. if tomorrow the government came and made all doctors work for the government, it would fall under the umbrella of socialism.

4. He doesn't understand that regardless of how much he thinks the military is a separate entity, it is still run by a civilian leadership which accommodates and provides a myriad of social programs to the workers within the organization known as the military. How much say do the JCS have as far as budget cuts for the many social programs within the military? I'd say they don't get the last word do they? That falls under, those who are appointed by the tax paying voters.

It is not so much a matter of attacking the military as Mr. apdst seems to suggest but a matter of a blind hatred for something you simply have no understanding of in the first place. In other words. Rhetoric.
 
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Hatuey said:
And this entire thread can be boiled down to simple points regarding apdts's comprehension of socialism.

1. He doesn't know what socialism actually is.

2. He doesn't understand what means of production means.

3. He doesn't understand that the State does not have to produce a good for it to be socialism. It simply has to control the - gasp - means of production and resources. Doctors do not provide a good. They provide a service. if tomorrow the government came and made all doctors work for the government, it would fall under the umbrella of socialism.

4. He doesn't understand that regardless of how much he thinks the military is a separate entity, it is still run by a civilian leadership which accommodates and provides a myriad of social programs to the workers within the organization known as the military. How much say do the JCS have as far as budget cuts for the many social programs within the military? I'd say they don't get the last word do they? That falls under, those who are appointed by the tax paying voters.

It is not so much a matter of attacking the military as Mr. apdst seems to suggest but a matter of a blind hatred for something you simply have no understanding of in the first place. In other words. Rhetoric.
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And, the military isn't socialism; no matter how hard you try to say it is.

How long were you in he service? Any service?
 
apdst said:
And, the military isn't socialism; no matter how hard you try to say it is.
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Who controls the means of production the military. ;)

How long were you in he service? Any service?
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How long were you in an university? :lol: See? I can play fallacies too.
 
apdst said:
And, the military isn't socialism; no matter how hard you try to say it is.
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What you have stated so far, is that the military is not an aspect of socialism because you served in it. Is that about right?

Tell me apdst, what aspect does volunteerism have in regards to socialism?
 
One of the aspects o socialism, is to make the haves and the have-nots more equal.

In the military, a standard is set and you meet that standard, or you're out. Do socialist governments kick people out because they failed to meet the standard?



Hatuey said:
How long were you in an university? :lol: See? I can play fallacies too.
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You're the one claiming to be superiror. For you to expect have any credibility, you must have some experience with the miltiary. Otherwise, you're talking about something you have no knowledge of.

I claimed to be an expert on Socialism.
 
apdst said:
One of the aspects o socialism, is to make the haves and the have-nots more equal.
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From wiki:
Socialism refers to various theories of economic organization advocating public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with a method of compensation based on the amount of labor expended.
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Arguing in the context of society is invalid. When we are speaking about the military, we are referencing to an extremely large agency within the federal government. Society is the civilian population.

Will you admit your error now?
 
Goldenboy219 said:
From wiki:

Arguing in the context of society is invalid. When we are speaking about the military, we are referencing to an extremely large agency within the federal government. Society is the civilian population.

Will you admit your error now?
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Can you take a vacation from Socialism the way you can the service?

Can you go, "off duty" in a socialist society and do anything you want the way you can in the service?

Can you decide that you don't like living under Socialism and ETS the way you can in the service?

While the military may exhibit some characterics that may in one's opinion be considered, "socialist"; however, stateing that the military is Socialism, as a fact, is erroneous.

A correction:

This:

I claimed to be an expert on Socialism.
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Should read:

I never claimed to be an expert on Socialism
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apdst said:
Can you take a vacation from Socialism the way you can the service?

Can you go, "off duty" in a socialist society and do anything you want the way you can in the service?

Can you decide that you don't like living under Socialism and ETS the way you can in the service?

While the military may exhibit some characterics that may in one's opinion be considered, "socialist"; however, stateing that the military is Socialism, as a fact, is erroneous.

A correction:

This:



Should read:
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So if there is vacation time in socialist countries, it's not socialist? Brilliant!
 
Redress said:
So if there is vacation time in socialist countries, it's not socialist? Brilliant!
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:lamo:

Vacations under Socialism | Making the History of 1989

In this oral history interview conducted in Braşov, Romania, during the summer of 2003, “E” discusses traveling under Socialism. She notes that, despite the fact that the country was led by an uneducated dictator, people—that is working people—always received a two week, state-subsidized vacation. Since this benefit is no longer guaranteed by the State, a number of women felt this aspect of life was better under Socialism because everyone was guaranteed days of rest.
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Vacation time is used as a means of increasing/maintaining productivity.
 
apdst said:
Can you go, "off duty" in a socialist society and do anything you want the way you can in the service?
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Have a look. France, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Singapore (the so called free market), Iceland, etc.........

Then look at the US lol!

apdst....... :lol:

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_statutory_minimum_employment_leave_by_country"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_statutory_minimum_employment_leave_by_country[/ame]
 
Redress said:
So by apdst's theory, then there is no socialism really. We could completely buy up all the factories in the country and run them at the federal level, but it won't be socialism if we give the workers vacation time. Well, that's a load off my mind.
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So, now you're going to resort to lieing about what I did and didn't say? I used to think you were smarter than that.
 
apdst said:
One of the aspects o socialism, is to make the haves and the have-nots more equal.
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Yes and Marx describes socialism (Remember? That is what we are discussing) as being the proletariat(working class) controlling the means of productions and resources. Do you not understand this simple little fact yet? Under this standard ( a word which you seem to like quite a bit) the military is most surely a socialist organization.

In the military, a standard is set and you meet that standard, or you're out. Do socialist governments kick people out because they failed to meet the standard?
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Yes. It is called political dissidence. Examples of it include Russian gulags, Cuban political dissidents and North Korean death camps. These are all examples of individuals within a 'socialist government' getting 'kicked out' of the system because they fail to meet the standard set by a socialist government. But what does that have to do with 'socialism'? Governments 'kicking people out' do not define a socialist government or group anymore than wearing red does.

You're the one claiming to be superiror.
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Really? Show where I made this 'claim'. I bet you can't.

For you to expect have any credibility, you must have some experience with the miltiary. Otherwise, you're talking about something you have no knowledge of.

I claimed to be an expert on Socialism.
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Here I'll show you what an appeal to authority fallacy is:

Fallacy: Appeal to Authority

Description of Appeal to Authority

An Appeal to Authority is a fallacy with the following form:

1. Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S.
2. Person A makes claim C about subject S.
3. Therefore, C is true.

This fallacy is committed when the person in question is not a legitimate authority on the subject. More formally, if person A is not qualified to make reliable claims in subject S, then the argument will be fallacious.
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In this case you would be person A. In this case you are making an argument which claims to be true because of your service in the military. The problem with you is that you have demonstrated(and this can be verified with evidence) that you have not a single clue what socialism is. YET you still claim that you know the military isn't run much in the same way a socialist society would be. Do you really want to play this authority game?
 
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apdst said:
Can you take a vacation from Socialism the way you can the service?
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Yes. They are called 'vacaciones' in Cuba. Not sure how to spell it in Korean or Russian.

Can you go, "off duty" in a socialist society and do anything you want the way you can in the service?
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Not sure what you mean by this or 'do anything you want'. What does even have to do with socialism? Nothing? Oh alright.

Can you decide that you don't like living under Socialism and ETS the way you can in the service?
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Yes. And then there are consequences. Much like in the military you simply can't quit whenever you want.

While the military may exhibit some characterics that may in one's opinion be considered, "socialist"; however, stateing that the military is Socialism, as a fact, is erroneous.
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You've already proven you do not know what socialism actually is or how socialist countries operate. I mean you've brought up red herrings about vacations like the only people to ever think a vacation was a good idea were Western capitalists. Seriously. It makes you look completely ignorant on the subject. Why continue?

A correction:

I claimed to be an expert on Socialism.
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This:

I never claimed to be an expert on Socialism
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Should read:
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Oh Freud. :)
 
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