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Amanda Knox - Railroaded

Re: Amanda Know - Railroaded

Can a mod edit the title?
 
Re: Amanda Know - Railroaded

What did you expect from an Italian kangaroo court?
 
Re: Amanda Know - Railroaded

What did you expect from an Italian kangaroo court?

I didn't know it was THIS bad. I mean, it's really, really bad. There is absolutely no solid evidence to support the prosecution's case. The Italian justice system is a joke.
 
Re: Amanda Know - Railroaded

I didn't know it was THIS bad. I mean, it's really, really bad. There is absolutely no solid evidence to support the prosecution's case. The Italian justice system is a joke.

Indeed. WHich is why Hilary Clinton needs to get involved and condem the Italian's miscariage of justice.

Then she needs to demand they release Amanda Knox.
 
Re: Amanda Know - Railroaded

I'm not the most knowledgeable person on this subject, but it seems to me like everyone's looking at this wrongly. If the laws of the Italian justice system were followed and she was found guilty, then that's the end of the story. That's the risk she took by going to live in Italy. The fact that most people think she wouldn't have been found guilty by an American court is irrelevant. She wasn't in America.

Now if the rules of their system weren't followed, then she should appeal within that system and hopefully be vindicated that way.
 
Re: Amanda Know - Railroaded

i'm not the most knowledgeable person on this subject, but it seems to me like everyone's looking at this wrongly. If the laws of the italian justice system were followed and she was found guilty, then that's the end of the story. That's the risk she took by going to live in italy. The fact that most people think she wouldn't have been found guilty by an american court is irrelevant. She wasn't in america.

Now if the rules of their system weren't followed, then she should appeal within that system and hopefully be vindicated that way.

.....

universal declaration of human rights

article 10

everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

universal declaration of human rights - wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.....
 
Re: Amanda Know - Railroaded

LMAO....so it's an universal right now huh?

:doh

I KNEW you couldn't resist.

Tell me, which set of international laws governs the conduct of war and the categorization of participants thereof? That would be the Geneva Conventions, not the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Moreover, nothing in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights precludes the possibility of forfeiting those rights under exigent circumstances, such as those outlined by the Geneva Conventions.
 
Re: Amanda Know - Railroaded

.....

universal declaration of human rights

article 10

everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

universal declaration of human rights - wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.....

Again, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that document is legally binding. Italian criminal law would still take precedence. And even if it was, that's a very bland generic statement which leaves itself up to a lot of interpretation. Just because Italy's judicial system doesn't work like ours doesn't mean it isn't fair and impartial. Like I said earlier, if you go live in a foreign country, you're subject to their laws and judicial system regardless of whether you think that system is fair or not. If you don't like that, don't go live there.
 
Re: Amanda Know - Railroaded

Again, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that document is legally binding.

It's international law and Italy is a member of the UN General Assembly.

Italian criminal law would still take precedence.

Of course, but it doesn't change the fact that they are violating international law.

And even if it was, that's a very bland generic statement which leaves itself up to a lot of interpretation.

Certainly, but I also think that most reasonable people (yourself included) would agree that her trial was anything but fair or impartial.

Just because Italy's judicial system doesn't work like ours doesn't mean it isn't fair and impartial.

I didn't say that.

Like I said earlier, if you go live in a foreign country, you're subject to their laws and judicial system regardless of whether you think that system is fair or not. If you don't like that, don't go live there.

1. I'm not disputing this.

2. Italy presents itself as a modern nation. If they wish to be viewed as such then they should act accordingly.
 
Re: Amanda Know - Railroaded

I'm not the most knowledgeable person on this subject, but it seems to me like everyone's looking at this wrongly. If the laws of the Italian justice system were followed and she was found guilty, then that's the end of the story.

Except she's not guilty.

molten_dragon said:
That's the risk she took by going to live in Italy. The fact that most people think she wouldn't have been found guilty by an American court is irrelevant. She wasn't in America.

You don't think that innocent people have a right to not be unjustly imprisoned, no matter WHERE in the world they are?

molten_dragon said:
Now if the rules of their system weren't followed, then she should appeal within that system and hopefully be vindicated that way.

I can't ****ing stand it when people are unwilling to condemn injustice simply because it happens in some other part of the world.
 
Funny thread.. Human rights? :rofl

Okay I will bite.. if so, where was the US when it rail roaded those Mexican guys in Texas? Not only did it break human rights, but it also broke treaty after treaty it had signed all because they were latino... tsk tsk. And now because a all American white girl is convicted in another country then you all suddenly want to claim human rights and treaties? pathetic.

And dont worry if her human rights were violated then there is a legal system within the EU to address this.
 
Funny thread.. Human rights? :rofl

Okay I will bite.. if so, where was the US when it rail roaded those Mexican guys in Texas? Not only did it break human rights, but it also broke treaty after treaty it had signed all because they were latino... tsk tsk.

Uhh if you expect anyone to know what you're talking about, you'll have to be a little more specific than "those Mexican guys in Texas." Mexican guys aren't exactly uncommon in Texas.

PeteEU said:
And now because a all American white girl is convicted in another country then you all suddenly want to claim human rights and treaties? pathetic.

You know what's pathetic? That you view this as a US-is-being-hypocritical issue, instead of actually looking at the evidence of the case and weighing Amanda Knox's guilt or innocence. I have no idea what Mexican guys you're talking about, but the fact that you view an innocent girl's incarceration for the next 26 years as a fair game tit-for-tat for American policies is ****ing disgusting.

PeteEU said:
And dont worry if her human rights were violated then there is a legal system within the EU to address this.

The EU has no authority to overturn an Italian criminal court's decision.
 
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Funny thread.. Human rights? :rofl

Okay I will bite.. if so, where was the US when it rail roaded those Mexican guys in Texas? Not only did it break human rights, but it also broke treaty after treaty it had signed all because they were latino... tsk tsk. And now because a all American white girl is convicted in another country then you all suddenly want to claim human rights and treaties? pathetic.

And dont worry if her human rights were violated then there is a legal system within the EU to address this.

Stop trolling the thread. Either comment on the case or piss off.
 
Since he mentioned Texas, let's imagine Foxy's trial happened there, and she was other than white. She'd have the needle in her arm by now.
 
The next person who tries to derail this thread will be reported.

The topic is the Amanda Knox trial, not hypothetical situations involving her in Texas.
 
Re: Amanda Know - Railroaded

Except she's not guilty.

If you had information that would have proved her innocence, why didn't you fly to Italy to give testimony? Or are you just stating an opinion?

You don't think that innocent people have a right to not be unjustly imprisoned, no matter WHERE in the world they are?

I can't ****ing stand it when people are unwilling to condemn injustice simply because it happens in some other part of the world.

Justice isn't an objective thing, it's subjective. I realize that you think she's innocent, but you need to realize that that's irrelevant. The Italian judicial system found her guilty, that's justice. The fact that it's not your version of justice means nothing. The only way that an injustice could have been done is if the Italian judicial system did not follow its own laws. As long as they followed their own laws and still found her guilty, then she's guilty and that's the end of the story.
 
Re: Amanda Know - Railroaded

If you had information that would have proved her innocence, why didn't you fly to Italy to give testimony? Or are you just stating an opinion?

Justice isn't an objective thing, it's subjective. I realize that you think she's innocent, but you need to realize that that's irrelevant. The Italian judicial system found her guilty, that's justice.

Sending an innocent person to jail is your idea of justice? That's strange.

The fact that it's not your version of justice means nothing. The only way that an injustice could have been done is if the Italian judicial system did not follow its own laws. As long as they followed their own laws and still found her guilty, then she's guilty and that's the end of the story.

Is it justice when Iran executes homosexuals for being gay?
 
Re: Amanda Know - Railroaded

Sending an innocent person to jail is your idea of justice? That's strange.

Again, if you had proof that she was innocent why didn't you fly to Italy and give testimony to that fact? I suspect though, that you're just stating your opinion, which as I already explained, is irrelevant.
 
Re: Amanda Know - Railroaded

If you had information that would have proved her innocence, why didn't you fly to Italy to give testimony? Or are you just stating an opinion?

No one should ever have to prove their innocence for anything. The prosecution had no compelling evidence that she committed murder.

molten_dragon said:
Justice isn't an objective thing, it's subjective. I realize that you think she's innocent, but you need to realize that that's irrelevant. The Italian judicial system found her guilty, that's justice. The fact that it's not your version of justice means nothing. The only way that an injustice could have been done is if the Italian judicial system did not follow its own laws. As long as they followed their own laws and still found her guilty, then she's guilty and that's the end of the story.

It is an ENORMOUS injustice whenever an innocent person is sent to prison, regardless of whether the laws of the legal proceedings were followed. What you are essentially saying is that no one has the right to complain about anything that occurs in another country, as long as they're following their own laws. Whether or not the government dotted all the I's and crossed the T's on the paperwork is irrelevant to the fact that she is innocent.
 
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Re: Amanda Know - Railroaded

Again, if you had proof that she was innocent why didn't you fly to Italy and give testimony to that fact?

Since when is a suspect expected to prove their innocence?

Here's the more important question, one I'm sure you'll dodge or ignore; what evidence is there that she's guilty?

I suspect though, that you're just stating your opinion, which as I already explained, is irrelevant.

Based upon the facts of the case and the evidence against her, there is absolutely no reason to believe Amanda Knox committed the murder. If you actually want to discuss the specifics of the case I'd be happy to accommodate you.

Also, you didn't answer my question:

Is it justice when Iran executes homosexuals for being gay?
 
Re: Amanda Know - Railroaded

Since when is a suspect expected to prove their innocence?

I'm sure in some justice systems this is the status quo. That doesn't make it wrong. And even in systems where the burden of proof is on the prosecution, exactly to what degree they are required to prove guilt is different in different places.

Here's the more important question, one I'm sure you'll dodge or ignore; what evidence is there that she's guilty?

As I said earlier, I'm not very knowledgeable about the particulars of this case. I truly don't know what evidence of her guilt was offered at her trial.

Based upon the facts of the case and the evidence against her, there is absolutely no reason to believe Amanda Knox committed the murder.

Obviously someone thought there was enough evidence to convict her. The fact that your opinion differs is, as I've stated several times, irrelevant. Justice is subjective, not objective. Your definition of justice does not apply to everyone.

Also, you didn't answer my question:

Is it justice when Iran executes homosexuals for being gay?

Not in my mind, but others feel differently.
 
Re: Amanda Know - Railroaded

I'm sure in some justice systems this is the status quo. That doesn't make it wrong. And even in systems where the burden of proof is on the prosecution, exactly to what degree they are required to prove guilt is different in different places.

Why isn't it wrong? Do you have an actual reason, or are you just a nihilist?

As I said earlier, I'm not very knowledgeable about the particulars of this case. I truly don't know what evidence of her guilt was offered at her trial.

There wasn't a single piece of probative evidence against Amanda Knox.

Of course, this doesn't matter, since everyone has their own special definition of justice...:roll:

Not in my mind, but others feel differently.

Who cares if others feel differently? If an autistic child told you clouds were made of marshmallows would that make their composition a matter of subjectivity? Of course not. We know that clouds are not made of marshmallows, just as we know it's wrong to kill people because they are homosexuals.

Either way, none of this is really relevant to the thread topic. We can debate whether or not she recieved a fair trial without delving into the apparent subjectivity of justice.

Do YOU think she got a fair trial?
 
Re: Amanda Know - Railroaded

:doh

I KNEW you couldn't resist.

Tell me, which set of international laws governs the conduct of war and the categorization of participants thereof? That would be the Geneva Conventions, not the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Moreover, nothing in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights precludes the possibility of forfeiting those rights under exigent circumstances, such as those outlined by the Geneva Conventions.

LMAO - Your sillyness continues.

1. The 4th Geneva convention:

"treated with humanity and, in case of trial, shall not be deprived of the rights of fair and regular trial."

2. The Declaration of Human Rights:

Article 10
Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

Can you please show us what part of fair trials being an universal right don't you understand?
 
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