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Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity charges

Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

It amazes me that in 2009 there are people who still have such an archaic view of sex and sexuality. I will never understand why some people are still so uptight.

I know. You'd think we were back in the dark ages or something.

Something so natural, so pleasurable, so completely enjoyable, so healthy in more ways than one and all people can come up with is that it somehow "harms society"? WTF?
 
Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

It might not have happened in your experience, but it is fairly common. And to deny that is insulting to those who have been through it.

True, some might - I appologize.

It seems, then, that nothing is a 'blanket' reaction, effect or cause - for some people it's one thing, for others it's completely different. . . in all things.
 
Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

Only because the Supreme Court has perverted the 1st Amendment far beyond either the written language or the intent; this is no different than arguing that the 2nd Amendment protects a "collective" right rather than an individual one. Obscenity is not speech, and no supposed "freedom of obscenity" deserves to be enshrined in our Bill of Rights alongside the freedom of speech and the freedom of the press.

There is plenty of case law that specifically proves that conduct between consenting adults cannot be criminalized.

It's an abuse that will end up being over-turned.
 
Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

That's really not entirely true. The body DOES react when the mind doesn't want it to. Men CAN get an erection when they don't want to.
Indeed. For example, "reserved gentlemen" who act awkward around attractive young women in public are often - surprise! - sexually aroused when they definitely don't want to be.
Women CAN get wet and orgasm when they don't want to.
As others have alluded, female rape victims have fairly commonly reported sexual arousal and even orgasm during rape. (The fact that many women never achieve orgasm during even consensual sex makes this all the more noticeable.)
The body reacts separate from the emotional state, or should I say, in spite of.
Or going beyond a mind/body split, one could say that many psychological/emotional reactions to stimuli are not necessarily under conscious control.
 
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Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

I know. You'd think we were back in the dark ages or something.
Funny you mention that - I've read about how at least back in the Dark Ages men tended to see women as sexual beings - even sexually promiscuous and sexually aggressive beings. However, if you look closer, their sexuality was still seen as the work of a man - more precisely, the work of the Devil.

“And what, then, is to be thought of those witches who in this way sometimes collect male organs in great numbers, as many as twenty or thirty members together, and put them in a bird’s nest, or shut them up in a box, where they move themselves like living members, and eat oats and corn, as has been seen by many and is a matter of common report? It is to be said that it is all done by devil’s work and illusion, for the senses of those who see them are deluded in the way we have said. For a certain man tells that, when he had lost his member, he approached a known witch to ask her to restore it to him. She told the afflicted man to climb a certain tree, and that he might take which he liked out of the nest in which there were several members. And when he tried to take a big one, the witch said: You must not take that one; adding, because it belongs to a parish priest.” Malleus Maleficarum.
 
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Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity charges

A US District Court in Florida has sentenced "extreme shock porn" gonzo director and distributor Max Hardcore, aka Paul F. Little, to four years in prison over obscenity charges. Writing for Salon, Glenn Greenwald wrote that he believes the verdict is a blow to first amendment rights:
"So, to recap, in the Land of the Free: if you're an adult who produces a film using other consenting adults, for the entertainment of still other consenting adults, which merely depicts fictional acts of humiliation and degradation, the DOJ will prosecute you and send you to prison for years. The claim that no real pain was inflicted will be rejected; mere humiliation is enough to make you a criminal. But if government officials actually subject helpless detainees in their custody to extreme mental abuse, degradation, humiliation and even mock executions long considered "torture" in the entire civilized world, the DOJ will argue that they have acted with perfect legality and, just to be sure, Congress will hand them retroactive immunity for their conduct. That's how we prioritize criminality and arrange our value system."​
The hometown Tampa, FL paper where Little was convicted wrote about the case in a condemning tone:
His pornographic persona, Max Hardcore, is all swagger and sadism - forcing women in his movies to do things that can't be described in a family newspaper. But in federal court today, as he faced a federal prison sentence, Paul F. Little trembled and begged a woman for mercy. "It just seems a very high price to pay, I think," Little told U.S. District Judge Susan Bucklew, "and I ask you to understand how much I've suffered."​
Judge Sentences Porn Producer To 46 Months In Prison (Tampa Bay Online). Similar accounts published in Max Hardcore's home town paper, The Pasadena (CA) Star-News, and in this Tampa Bay paper.

Why was Little, aka Hardcore, convicted in Florida, when the offending material was produced elsewhere and distributed in many places, even overseas? IANAL, but as I understand it: producers are subject to obscenity charges in any state the material can be downloaded when local standards deem the material to be obscene. The landmark Supreme Court case of Hustler Magazine v. Falwell is informative background reading.

FULL STORY

Because Florida is run by a group of ignorant inbred morons who have no clue how to run a state.

His conviction WILL be appealed and Florida's bogus conviction WILL be tossed out.

Little will then sue the State of Florida for wrongful, malicious prosecution and conspiracy to deprive him of his 1st Amendment rights.

Florida is going down. What they did is BLATANTLY ILLEGAL.
 
Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

How is this even possible? How is this not an obvious violation of the First Amendment? ****ing stupid social conservatives...

How can our First Admendment be involved in this??
There is such a thing as responsibility is there not ?
In other words , no yelling "fire!" in a crowded movie theater..
 
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Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

The key sentence : which merely depicts fictional acts of humiliation and degradation...
We do not need this crap, its has no redeeming social value...The verdict was correct, no appeal should be heard by anyone.
 
Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

As others have alluded, female rape victims have fairly commonly reported sexual arousal and even orgasm during rape. (The fact that many women never achieve orgasm during even consensual sex makes this all the more noticeable.)


Huh..? :wassat1:

I've read surveys that say some women fantasize about rape; never read anything that claims some women become aroused and orgasm during actual rape. That doesn't seem to likely, frankly.
Pardon my ignorance if I'm incorrect.
 
Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

How can our First Admendment be involved in this??
There is such a thing as responsibility is there not ?
In other words , no yelling "fire!" in a crowded movie theater..
Responsibility for what?


The key sentence : which merely depicts fictional acts of humiliation and degradation...
We do not need this crap, its has no redeeming social value...The verdict was correct, no appeal should be heard by anyone.
Just going by the amount of people who bought and watched it, apparently it did have some social value. Many thousands of dollars worth of social value, I'd gather.

Regardless, why does something have to have "social value" in order to be available for sale or purchase? If I WANT to purchase something, it has value to ME. Who the **** is the government to tell me it doesn't?
 
Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

Huh..? :wassat1:

I've read surveys that say some women fantasize about rape; never read anything that claims some women become aroused and orgasm during actual rape. That doesn't seem to likely, frankly.
Pardon my ignorance if I'm incorrect.

Trauma Tuesday: Orgasms During Rape and Sexual Abuse | Adoption Under One Roof

Orgasm during Rape or Other Form of Sexual Abuse Blooming Lotus

SPEAK OUT

Rape Counseling: How to get help, older men sex, terrible nightmares

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgasm]Orgasm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Involuntary orgasms

Orgasms can happen as the result of forced sexual contact as during rape or sexual assault, and are often associated with feelings of shame caused by internalization of victim-blaming attitudes. The incidence of those who experience unsolicited sexual contact and experience orgasm is very low, though possibly underreported due to shame or embarrassment. Involuntary orgasms can happen regardless of gender.


Surviving Rape: Overcoming Guilt - iVillage Your Total Health
 
Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

Hah. Guess I get to be the first to say that I applaud this conviction.

The material he produced was the worst kind of filth and the world would be a better place without either it or him. I can only hope that the conviction is not overturned on appeal-- and that in either case he does not simply immediately resume his disgusting and antisocial behaviors upon his release from prison.

Too much to hope for, but I cannot do otherwise.

There is a difference between depicting abuse and degradation as a subject of fictional material and glamorizing or promoting it as desirable and normal social conduct. His films did the latter and encouraged countless people to treat others as depicted in his films and to view such treatment as normal and healthy. There is no place for such things in a civilized society.

I don't give a damn what you think. It's not your place, or the government's, to decide any of this. Mind your own business. Go read the First Amendment.
 
Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

I don't give a damn what you think. It's not your place, or the government's, to decide any of this. Mind your own business. Go read the First Amendment.

Whole lot of effort you just went to in not giving a damn, and it is absolutely the government's place to uphold the moral standards of society-- and my place as a citizen to make my wishes known. These moral standards are everyone's business, and if Mr. Little had been a playwright while the ink of the First Amendment was still drying, he would have been pilloried and hanged by the very men who wrote it.

There's no greater arrogance than assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant.
 
Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

Whole lot of effort you just went to in not giving a damn, and it is absolutely the government's place to uphold the moral standards of society-- and my place as a citizen to make my wishes known. These moral standards are everyone's business, and if Mr. Little had been a playwright while the ink of the First Amendment was still drying, he would have been pilloried and hanged by the very men who wrote it.

Wrong. Read the First Amendment. It says what it says.

Using the Founder's alleged actions in today's world is not a valid argument, after all, many owned slaves even as ink on "all men are created equal" was still drying.

Regardless of the law, stay out of my business. These movies aren't public. You have to go rent or buy them, or download them, to see them. Don't like them, don't watch them. The idea that something is "obscene" when you never ever view it, and possibly don't even know exist, is absurd.

As for morality? No. Government, stay out.

And I can bring you a list of mainstream movies showing in malls that I find thoroughly reprehensible, starting with "torture porn." If you want to talk about banning movies and putting film-makers in jail, those are going to be part of the discussion too. Just an FYI.

There's no greater arrogance than assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant.

I don't think everyone who disagrees with me is ignorant.
 
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Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

Whole lot of effort you just went to in not giving a damn, and it is absolutely the government's place to uphold the moral standards of society-- and my place as a citizen to make my wishes known. These moral standards are everyone's business, and if Mr. Little had been a playwright while the ink of the First Amendment was still drying, he would have been pilloried and hanged by the very men who wrote it.

There's no greater arrogance than assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant.

There have to be some standards, but they should be kept to a minimum to protect our safety, not our morals or our innocence. These videos are not being broadcast on television or handed out in school. You have to seek them out to view it. If no one was hurt making the movie and no one is hurt viewing the movie then what business does society have? This country was never a democracy where the majority rules over the minority. This country was founded so that every citizen would be free in their pursuit of happiness. And yet another one just slipped through the cracks.
 
Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

These moral standards are everyone's business, and if Mr. Little had been a playwright while the ink of the First Amendment was still drying, he would have been pilloried and hanged by the very men who wrote it.
The same Framers who'd rush to pillory and hang Little also supported (however hypocritically) the execution of homosexuals, adulterers, and miscegenationists, policies which would wipe out a good proportion of this message board, probably several members of the staff and possibly yourself.

It's ideas expressed in the Bill of Rights which have proven valuable, not the assorted personal prejudices espoused among various Framers.

The First Amendment was written by James Madison, btw, for anyone who didn't know.
 
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Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

How can our First Admendment be involved in this??
There is such a thing as responsibility is there not ?
True. I say it's time that we ban Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet as felony contraband; namely, child pornography (Juliet is 13). It's a shame we can't hit ol' Willy with a fat stack of felony charges. Ever notice it's mostly decadent liberals and marxists of dubious sexual proclivities who go to Shakespeare plays anyway? The noxious ways of rootless cosmopolitans greatly irritate me. Precisely what social value does this melodramatic nonsense serve? Does it feed or clothe anyone? No. Has it ever inspired a scientific discovery? No. Has it in any way made our country stronger or our streets safer? No. Does it romanticize the rape of a minor? Yes.
 
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Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

You people who walk all over other people's rights make me sick. I am a Criminal Justice major, are you people ****ing IGNORANT of how full our prisons are right now? Do you really actually think that we can afford to put people in prison for WANKING TO FICTIONAL, CONSENSUAL, ADULT MATERIAL? ARE YOU ****ING INSANE? We have REAL children getting abused, we have REAL rapists, we have REAL ****ING PROBLEMS. OH NO A GUY BEAT OFF TO A FICTIONAL RAPE DEAR GOD!! THE WORLD IS ENDING! Thoughts should be prosecuted next! Oh my God SOMEONE THOUGHT about doing something illegal? HOLY **** throw him in the gulag. You people who DISAGREE with his material.. are overstepping your bounds onto other peoples rights. BACK OFF!

I don't give a **** if some girl wants to eat poop or get flogged or get slapped, some people get off to that and more power to them. It's none of my or your business, no matter how much you wish it was.

You people wanna go after consenting adults instead of real child porn, instead of real rapists, you are pathetic.
 
Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

Trauma Tuesday: Orgasms During Rape and Sexual Abuse | Adoption Under One Roof

Orgasm during Rape or Other Form of Sexual Abuse Blooming Lotus

SPEAK OUT

Rape Counseling: How to get help, older men sex, terrible nightmares

Orgasm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Involuntary orgasms

Orgasms can happen as the result of forced sexual contact as during rape or sexual assault, and are often associated with feelings of shame caused by internalization of victim-blaming attitudes. The incidence of those who experience unsolicited sexual contact and experience orgasm is very low, though possibly underreported due to shame or embarrassment. Involuntary orgasms can happen regardless of gender.


Surviving Rape: Overcoming Guilt - iVillage Your Total Health

These are difficult and upsetting to read.
I tried the first two.
They mostly seem to have to do with cases of ongoing, recurrent child sexual abuse.
I am aware that children masturbate, that it is normal for them to do so; I have read that even young children, children who have not yet gone through puberty, can experience orgasm, in some cases.
Is it not possible that the children referred to in your links simply did not realize that what was happening to them at the hands of their caregivers or whomever was repeatedly sexually molesting them was wrong?
I mean... it seems likely this abuse involved sexual stimulation that stopped short of actual penetration, at least at first.
Perhaps it felt good to the children, and they didn't realize at the time that it was wrong.

:shrug:

I don't know, it's such an upsetting topic.

Do any of your other links have to do with rape? I mean, rape-rape, as in an adult forcibly having sex with another adult against her will?
Because that situation is where I questioned whether victims sometimes have orgasms during the actual attack. It just seems so strange. :confused:

I had, in fact, been aware that people who were sexually abused as children by people they trusted sometimes feel guilty in adulthood, because they found the abuse in some ways physically pleasurable.
I had read that.

Since I have no firsthand experience in this matter, I will defer to those who do.
I was just taken aback, a little, by this assertion that rape victims experience pleasure and have orgasms during rape.
It is not something I had ever considered. It's something I'm finding difficult to assimilate.
 
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Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

Since I have no firsthand experience in this matter, I will defer to those who do.
In this vein, although there are stats and studies, I'll directly quote a woman describing in an interview her experience of being raped:

What kind of evening was it?

It was a cool-ish early fall evening, clear. I was wearing blue jeans, a not particularly clingy stretch terry zip top (kind of like a hoodie), clogs.

Where did the rape occur?

In the middle of the campus there's a fairly large garden. At that time, the bushes surrounding the path through the garden were pretty dense. It wasn't completely dark that evening. There were lights every so often, some of them mounted on trees.

I was on the way to the chapel, taking a main path about halfway through the garden, when a man stepped out from behind the bushes and asked me if I had a match. I said no, and I tried to walk around him. But he grabbed me, putting one arm around my head and face and one around my arms. He then pulled me off the path towards an empty building on the garden grounds.

Did you put up a physical struggle?

I started out screaming, but he got his arm over my mouth. He held something against me. I didn't know what it was. My glasses were falling off.

How scared were you?

I remember thinking "Oh god, please don't hurt me, I'm going to die, no one hears me, no one's going to help me".

Just to get this straight: You’d never seen this guy before, right?

Correct.

Did you try to push him away or harm him?

When he first grabbed me, my struggle consisted of trying to break free of his arms, trying to get a hand free. He had one arm around me, holding one arm and pinning the other. His other hand was around my face and neck. I tried kneeing and kicking, and I lost my balance. That's something they teach you in self-defense classes often happens. It's why you should stomp on an attacker's instep instead of trying to knee him in the groin.

I was trying to keep my footing and he was pulling me off the path. I lost one of my clogs. If I had gone completely limp, he probably would have had more trouble getting me to move. I didn't think of that because I was too scared.

Did you struggle physically throughout?

No. There was a small screened porch off the back of the building in the garden. He dragged me into it and pushed me down. I think I gave up struggling around then.

Why? What was going through your mind?


I gave up struggling out of hopelessness. It wasn't working, I couldn't get away, I didn't want to make him mad, and nobody could hear me. Losing my glasses didn't help. I'm nearsighted, with around 20/200 vision. I'm also somewhat night blind. I lose a lot of depth perception at night, even with lights. So I couldn't see where he was taking me. That contributed to the panic.

So there you are, he's overwhelmed you ...

Neither of us said much. Once I stopped screaming, it was very quiet. He didn't say anything, so all that was going on was just heavy breathing.

His hat had a braided leather strap. After he pushed me down to the floor, he started to wrap the leather around my mouth. I said, "I promise, I won't scream anymore," and he stopped. That's when I really gave up, and became completely passive.

How did the intercourse part of the rape go?

I let him pull my pants down, off one leg. He spread my legs, and lay down on top of me. I have no idea how long it took him to rape me. It felt like forever. I just wanted him to be done, and it went on and on. He asked me my name and told me his, during the act. That's when I was thinking "Okay, this is really happening, I couldn't stop it, what happens when he's finished, is he going to let me go or is he going to kill me to get rid of the evidence?"

What were your physical sensations?

It seemed unreal, but I was very aware of being flat on my back on a cold cement floor, with this stranger ****ing me. I didn't smell much of anything except a wet-earth garden smell.

It did hurt when he entered me. I don't think he noticed that I had my period. He certainly didn't notice that I had a tampon in me. Strangely, I had an orgasm.

Was that disorienting? I've read that women who orgasm during rape often feel guilt or shame.

Yeah, I felt shame. My body betrayed me by reacting when my mind was so against it. I remember hating myself because I had an orgasm.


2blowhards.com: A Real Campus Rape, Part One
 
Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

In this vein, although there are stats and studies, I'll directly quote a woman describing in an interview her experience of being raped:

What kind of evening was it?

It was a cool-ish early fall evening, clear. I was wearing blue jeans, a not particularly clingy stretch terry zip top (kind of like a hoodie), clogs.

Where did the rape occur?

In the middle of the campus there's a fairly large garden. At that time, the bushes surrounding the path through the garden were pretty dense. It wasn't completely dark that evening. There were lights every so often, some of them mounted on trees.

I was on the way to the chapel, taking a main path about halfway through the garden, when a man stepped out from behind the bushes and asked me if I had a match. I said no, and I tried to walk around him. But he grabbed me, putting one arm around my head and face and one around my arms. He then pulled me off the path towards an empty building on the garden grounds.

Did you put up a physical struggle?

I started out screaming, but he got his arm over my mouth. He held something against me. I didn't know what it was. My glasses were falling off.

How scared were you?

I remember thinking "Oh god, please don't hurt me, I'm going to die, no one hears me, no one's going to help me".

Just to get this straight: You’d never seen this guy before, right?

Correct.

Did you try to push him away or harm him?

When he first grabbed me, my struggle consisted of trying to break free of his arms, trying to get a hand free. He had one arm around me, holding one arm and pinning the other. His other hand was around my face and neck. I tried kneeing and kicking, and I lost my balance. That's something they teach you in self-defense classes often happens. It's why you should stomp on an attacker's instep instead of trying to knee him in the groin.

I was trying to keep my footing and he was pulling me off the path. I lost one of my clogs. If I had gone completely limp, he probably would have had more trouble getting me to move. I didn't think of that because I was too scared.

Did you struggle physically throughout?

No. There was a small screened porch off the back of the building in the garden. He dragged me into it and pushed me down. I think I gave up struggling around then.

Why? What was going through your mind?


I gave up struggling out of hopelessness. It wasn't working, I couldn't get away, I didn't want to make him mad, and nobody could hear me. Losing my glasses didn't help. I'm nearsighted, with around 20/200 vision. I'm also somewhat night blind. I lose a lot of depth perception at night, even with lights. So I couldn't see where he was taking me. That contributed to the panic.

So there you are, he's overwhelmed you ...

Neither of us said much. Once I stopped screaming, it was very quiet. He didn't say anything, so all that was going on was just heavy breathing.

His hat had a braided leather strap. After he pushed me down to the floor, he started to wrap the leather around my mouth. I said, "I promise, I won't scream anymore," and he stopped. That's when I really gave up, and became completely passive.

How did the intercourse part of the rape go?

I let him pull my pants down, off one leg. He spread my legs, and lay down on top of me. I have no idea how long it took him to rape me. It felt like forever. I just wanted him to be done, and it went on and on. He asked me my name and told me his, during the act. That's when I was thinking "Okay, this is really happening, I couldn't stop it, what happens when he's finished, is he going to let me go or is he going to kill me to get rid of the evidence?"

What were your physical sensations?

It seemed unreal, but I was very aware of being flat on my back on a cold cement floor, with this stranger ****ing me. I didn't smell much of anything except a wet-earth garden smell.

It did hurt when he entered me. I don't think he noticed that I had my period. He certainly didn't notice that I had a tampon in me. Strangely, I had an orgasm.

Was that disorienting? I've read that women who orgasm during rape often feel guilt or shame.

Yeah, I felt shame. My body betrayed me by reacting when my mind was so against it. I remember hating myself because I had an orgasm.

2blowhards.com: A Real Campus Rape, Part One


This has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Kindly get back on subject or please depart the thread.

Thanks.

:2wave:
 
Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

This has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Kindly get back on subject or please depart the thread.

Thanks.

:2wave:
Kindly take another look at the trajectory of the discussion. The thread had forked into a conversation about rape. (Considering how Max Hardcore's porn is replete with rape roleplay, this should hardly be shocking.) 1069 asked whether women can really experience sexual arousal and even orgasm while being raped. rivrrat posted evidence that this is indeed the case. I posted additional evidence. If you somehow consider rape unbearably off-topic for this thread, you should complain about the entire rape discussion fork within this thread, not just one post.

Also, if you dislike my post providing additional evidence, why repost 100% of it?

2061tl1.jpg
 
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Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

These are difficult and upsetting to read.
I tried the first two.
They mostly seem to have to do with cases of ongoing, recurrent child sexual abuse.
I am aware that children masturbate, that it is normal for them to do so; I have read that even young children, children who have not yet gone through puberty, can experience orgasm, in some cases.
Is it not possible that the children referred to in your links simply did not realize that what was happening to them at the hands of their caregivers or whomever was repeatedly sexually molesting them was wrong?
I mean... it seems likely this abuse involved sexual stimulation that stopped short of actual penetration, at least at first.
Perhaps it felt good to the children, and they didn't realize at the time that it was wrong.

:shrug:

I don't know, it's such an upsetting topic.

Do any of your other links have to do with rape? I mean, rape-rape, as in an adult forcibly having sex with another adult against her will?
Because that situation is where I questioned whether victims sometimes have orgasms during the actual attack. It just seems so strange. :confused:

I had, in fact, been aware that people who were sexually abused as children by people they trusted sometimes feel guilty in adulthood, because they found the abuse in some ways physically pleasurable.
I had read that.

Since I have no firsthand experience in this matter, I will defer to those who do.
I was just taken aback, a little, by this assertion that rape victims experience pleasure and have orgasms during rape.
It is not something I had ever considered. It's something I'm finding difficult to assimilate.
Yes, the other links do speak about adult rape. As you well know, rape itself is under reported. And a woman who has an orgasm or experiences physical pleasure during a rape is even more drastically under reported. Can you imagine the confusion and guilt? But the mere fact that it IS reported in some instances (making the likelihood of it happening rare or uncommon), combined with knowing it's under-reported would have to lead one to conclude that it likely happens a LOT more often, no?

We can assume, based on the current reporting of it, that it is an uncommon situation; but it DOES happen, and it's legitimate, and it - in no way - means the person wanted what was happening to them. It merely reiterates what I and others have been saying - sexual arousal does not require emotion. (which was a ridiculous notion to begin with)
 
Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

Whole lot of effort you just went to in not giving a damn, and it is absolutely the government's place to uphold the moral standards of society-- and my place as a citizen to make my wishes known. These moral standards are everyone's business, and if Mr. Little had been a playwright while the ink of the First Amendment was still drying, he would have been pilloried and hanged by the very men who wrote it.

There's no greater arrogance than assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant.

Obviously these moral standards are subjective and not held by everyone because if they were they wouldn't bother making these movies. They do have a value to some people as they make good sales on them. Who are you to say that your moral code is better than everyone else's? If you don't like these movies, don't watch them. It's as simple as that. They aren't being forced down anyone's throat.
 
Re: Adult film director Max Hardcore sentenced to 4 years in prison on obscenity char

Obviously these moral standards are subjective and not held by everyone because if they were they wouldn't bother making these movies.

Obviously.

They do have a value to some people as they make good sales on them.

Yes, to some people. The question is, does the value these films hold for some people outweigh the disgust they inspire in everyone else? Does it outweigh the detrimental effects that these films have on the social behavior of the people who value them? Does the fact that some people enjoy this means that we should tolerate it?

And I would say that the answer to these questions is "no". The nature of the majority of the replies I've received on the subject, between the vulgarities directed at me and the idea that we must tolerate everything that does not directly harm others, only reinforces my belief that moral standards must be reinforced lest they crumble even further beyond their current degraded state.

Who are you to say that your moral code is better than everyone else's?

I'm me, of course. If my moral code wasn't better than everyone else's, I'd be following theirs instead. Aren't you making the exact same claim, when you demand that the law be written to suit your moral beliefs and you condemn me for even suggesting otherwise?

And in this case I'm not arguing that my moral code is better than everyone else's, or that my moral code must be made into law. I'm arguing that the vast majority of us can agree that there is something very wrong with these films and that we should not have to tolerate their existence. Unfortunately, the majority of people who agree with my first point still disagree with my second.

If you don't like these movies, don't watch them. It's as simple as that. They aren't being forced down anyone's throat.

It's as simple as it is irrelevant. I don't want these movies banned because I don't like them. There are a lot of things I don't like that I do not want banned, including forms of pornography that do not involve the depicted abuse of their performers. I want these movies banned because they encourage the people who view them to believe that these are normal and appropriate ways to treat their sexual partners. I believe that these movies are actively malignant and that they lead to harm being done to my family and my nation, whether I or anyone in my family watches them personally.
 
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