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Marijuana legalization hearing tomorrow in California!

marduc said:
Are you just going to pop in for a one line drive by, or are you going to substantiate this?

Go ahead, this should be easy for ya, explain to us all how much more injurious to society marijuana is in comparison to junk food. spell it out for us.



Although my initial impulse is to let you hang yourself, I'll give you a heads up here, The effects of marijuana prohibition on society are a distinct entity independent of the effects of marijuana the drug.
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Are they now? The effects of tabacco on our society and the individuals who use them are massive, enduring, and profounding insidious. As a society we are trying very hard to limit the effects of them by heavily taxing them and carrying on a 20 year campaign to encourage our children to not smoke, not to mention outright bans on where you can smoke the damn things. Just what sense does it make to encourage the use of yet another drug with similar or even worse effects on the human body?



source

Marijuana Smokers Face Rapid Lung Destruction -- As Much As 20 Years Ahead Of Tobacco Smokers
ScienceDaily (Jan. 27, 2008) — A new study finds that the development of bullous lung disease occurs in marijuana smokers approximately 20 years earlier than tobacco smokers.


A condition often caused by exposure to toxic chemicals or long-term exposure to tobacco smoke, bullous lung disease (also known as bullae) is a condition where air trapped in the lungs causes obstruction to breathing and eventual destruction of the lungs.

At present, about 10% of young adults and 1% of the adult population smoke marijuana regularly. Researchers find that the mean age of marijuana-smoking patients with lung problems was 41, as opposed to the average age of 65 years for tobacco-smoking patients.

The study "Bullous Lung Disease due to Marijuana" also finds that the bullous lung disease can easily go undetected as patients suffering from the disease may show normal chest X-rays and lung functions. High-resolution CT scans revealed severe asymmetrical, variably sized bullae in the patients studied. However, chest X-rays and lung functions were normal in half of them......
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Dutch said:
Are they now? The effects of tabacco on our society and the individuals who use them are massive, enduring, and profounding insidious. As a society we are trying very hard to limit the effects of them by heavily taxing them and carrying on a 20 year campaign to encourage our children to not smoke, not to mention outright bans on where you can smoke the damn things. Just what sense does it make to encourage the use of yet another drug with similar or even worse effects on the human body?



source
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Here Dutch have a brownie:cool:
 
Dutch said:
Are they now? The effects of tabacco on our society and the individuals who use them are massive, enduring, and profounding insidious. As a society we are trying very hard to limit the effects of them by heavily taxing them and carrying on a 20 year campaign to encourage our children to not smoke, not to mention outright bans on where you can smoke the damn things. Just what sense does it make to encourage the use of yet another drug with similar or even worse effects on the human body?



source
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A lot of things are harmful for our bodies, such as eating at McDonalds. Should that be outlawed as well? Guess what? We all should have a right to choose what we want to do with our bodies. Rather than blaming a plant for the problems of the world, perhaps you should place the blame on people who abuse these things.
 
Dutch said:
None of the above is a injurious to our society as marijuana......except for maybe the pet rocks.
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You are making yet another reckless statement. The problem with our society is not Marijuana itself, but the criminal gangs who operate the underground market associated with Marijuana and other illegal substances.
 
Phantom said:
You are making yet another reckless statement. The problem with our society is not Marijuana itself, but the criminal gangs who operate the underground market associated with Marijuana and other illegal substances.
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.....and the product itself. ;)



....Marijuana smokers had symptoms that included wheezing, coughing, chest tightness and phlegm — all of which were associated with tobacco smokers, except chest tightness.

The study, which used lung function tests, high-resolution X-rays and questionnaires, also revealed that among marijuana smokers damage occurred to the small, fine airways which are important for taking in oxygen and removing waste gases. The extent of damage rose in proportion to the number of joints smoked....
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Dr_Patrick said:
A lot of things are harmful for our bodies, such as eating at McDonalds. Should that be outlawed as well? Guess what? We all should have a right to choose what we want to do with our bodies. Rather than blaming a plant for the problems of the world, perhaps you should place the blame on people who abuse these things.
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I'm only blaming the plant for the damage it does to one's lungs when smoked, not the problems of the world.

......Study: Marijuana Causes Lung Damage
December 10, 2003

New research finds that smoking three or four marijuana cigarettes a week for six years could harm lung function and destroy antioxidants that protect cells against heart disease and cancer, Reuters reported Dec. 5.
"Smoking cannabis on a regular basis actually depletes your lung of protective antioxidant substances and this may have chronic long-term implications for young individuals," said Dr Sarah Nuttall of the University of Birmingham in England......
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Despite popular belief, a new study shows that people who smoke marijuana do not appear to be at increased risk of developing lung cancer.

It seems even heavy, long-term marijuana users do not appear to increase the risk of head and neck cancers, such as cancer of the tongue, mouth, throat, or esophagus.

Senior researcher, Donald Tashkin, M.D., Professor of Medicine at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA in Los Angeles says the findings were a surprise as they expected to find that a history of heavy marijuana use would increase the risk of cancer from several years to decades after exposure to marijuana.
Heavy marijuana use not linked to lung cancer
 
winston53660 said:
Despite popular belief, a new study shows that people who smoke marijuana do not appear to be at increased risk of developing lung cancer.

It seems even heavy, long-term marijuana users do not appear to increase the risk of head and neck cancers, such as cancer of the tongue, mouth, throat, or esophagus.

Senior researcher, Donald Tashkin, M.D., Professor of Medicine at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA in Los Angeles says the findings were a surprise as they expected to find that a history of heavy marijuana use would increase the risk of cancer from several years to decades after exposure to marijuana.
Heavy marijuana use not linked to lung cancer
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I'm aware of this study. Marijuana use doesn't seem to bring about lung cancer, just lung damage.

From your source.

Other experts are warning that the study should not be viewed as a green light to smoke pot, as smoking marijuana has been associated with problems such as cognitive impairment and chronic bronchitis.
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Dutch said:
I'm aware of this study. Marijuana use doesn't seem to bring about lung cancer, just lung damage.

From your source.
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Here have a brownie Dutch:mrgreen:
 
Dutch said:
I'm only blaming the plant for the damage it does to one's lungs when smoked, not the problems of the world.
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Actually, no. You are blaming it for far more. If you were just worried about a person's lungs you would have argued this point a long time ago. You would also be attacking tobacco. Considering that tobacco is legal, if this is truly your argument, there is no reason why marijuana shouldn't be legal.
 
Dutch said:
.....and the product itself. ;)
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The quote you listed, how is that a problem to society? I guess one's coughing could wake up the neighbors? :rofl
 
Dr_Patrick said:
Actually, no. You are blaming it for far more. If you were just worried about a person's lungs you would have argued this point a long time ago. You would also be attacking tobacco. Considering that tobacco is legal, if this is truly your argument, there is no reason why marijuana shouldn't be legal.
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Tobacco should be illegal as well. If used as directed....it will amost certainly kill you.
 
Dutch:

As a frequent patron to many Dutch coffee shops, an up and coming trend is emerging:Amsterdam Coffeeshop Directory - Coffee Shops

Vapourising is an alternative to smoking. It is achieved by heating cannabis slightly less than would cause it to burn but sufficiently hot to cause the THC and other oils to be released as vapour. This vapour is then inhaled and absorbed through the lungs in a similar fashion to smoking. This has many advantages over smoking in terms of efficiency and healthiness and delivers a much faster hit than eating the cannabis.

Vaporizers of various designs (and spellings!) have been around for many years now and are often found in Dutch coffeeshops and in places like the Cannabis College, Hash Museum and Cannabis Cup venues. They employ a variety of methods of heating the cannabis and delivering the vapour.
The simplest devices use a lighter to heat air in a glass tube which is then drawn over the bud by manual sucking.
Some more sophisticated mains-powered vapourisers use a hotplate to heat the bud, collecting the vapour in a chamber from which it is then inhaled. Others use a heat gun as a source of hot air often combined with bong-style water cooling for the vapour.

Now its makers, Storz & Bickel, have sent us one to test. Everyone who's tried it has been impressed. Just a small amount of herb is sufficient to stone a room full of people because nothing is wasted on combustion. I have no hesitation in recommending the Volcano as the best but I'm glad I didn't have to pay for mine 'cos they're bloody expensive!

You can try out a Volcano vaporizer in any of these Amsterdam coffeeshops: Barney's, Blue Velvet, Bushdocter, Chocolata, Dampkring, El Guapo, Greenhouse Centrum, Grey Area, Homegrown Fantasy, Katsu, Kingstone, de Kuil (420 Cafe), Noon, Prix D'Ami, Rokerij, Rookies, Rusland, Sensi Coffeeshop, Smoking Bull, Softland, Tweede Kamer.
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Dutch said:
Tobacco should be illegal as well. If used as directed....it will amost certainly kill you.
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:rofl

Good luck trying to make tobacco illegal.

It's a very slippery slope. If they were to make tobacco illegal, they could very easily go after other things that are considered bad for us. Personally, I don't want the government to have that much control over me. I should be able to eat, drink and smoke what I want even if it is considered bad for me. People need to accept responsibility for their actions instead of blaming alcohol, tobacco or marijuana.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Dutch:

As a frequent patron to many Dutch coffee shops, an up and coming trend is emerging:Amsterdam Coffeeshop Directory - Coffee Shops
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As long as lung damage doesn't occur and there is no physical damage, or impairment to long term cognitive ability, and it's legal, I have no objection. I'll wait for the studies. Until then, my opinion remains the same.


...and no, legal/illegal, lung damage/no lung damage I won't be using the product, thank you anyway. :mrgreen:
 
Dr_Patrick said:
:rofl

Good luck trying to make tobacco illegal.

It's a very slippery slope. If they were to make tobacco illegal, they could very easily go after other things that are considered bad for us. Personally, I don't want the government to have that much control over me. I should be able to eat, drink and smoke what I want even if it is considered bad for me. People need to accept responsibility for their actions instead of blaming alcohol, tobacco or marijuana.
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You asked my opnion. I gave you my honest opinion. I don't see them making tobacco illegal either but that doesn't mean we should compound the damage by making marijuana legal. As for the slippery slope argument goes, I don't much buy it. We can't make everything legal just as we can't make everything illegal. What we can do is the very best we can as a society. Keeping marijuana illegal and discouraging it's use by members of our society is doing the best we can.
 
Dutch said:
You asked my opnion. I gave you my honest opinion. I don't see them making tobacco illegal either but that doesn't mean we should compound the damage by making marijuana legal. As for the slippery slope argument goes, I don't much buy it. We can't make everything legal just as we can't make everything illegal. What we can do is the very best we can as a society. Keeping marijuana illegal and discouraging it's use by members of our society is doing the best we can.
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Have you ever smoked marijuana?
 
Dutch said:
You asked my opnion. I gave you my honest opinion. I don't see them making tobacco illegal either but that doesn't mean we should compound the damage by making marijuana legal. As for the slippery slope argument goes, I don't much buy it. We can't make everything legal just as we can't make everything illegal. What we can do is the very best we can as a society. Keeping marijuana illegal and discouraging it's use by members of our society is doing the best we can.
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What is the damage inflicted by keeping marijuana illegal? Does the benefit out way making it legal.

As far as I know I can pretty much get pot anytime I want to so keeping it illegal certianly does not affect supply.
 
winston53660 said:
What is the damage inflicted by keeping marijuana illegal? Does the benefit out way making it legal.

As far as I know I can pretty much get pot anytime I want to so keeping it illegal certianly does not affect supply.
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It's keeping the price higher than it would otherwise be which limits it's distribution among the populace.
 
Dutch said:
It's keeping the price higher than it would otherwise be which limits it's distribution among the populace.
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You're kidding, right? How exactly does it limit anything? Tons of people smoke pot and the numbers certainly aren't decreasing. You can get it pretty much anywhere if you know the right people (which isn't hard at all). Plus, it really only gets expensive if you are doing tons of it. There are plenty of benefits to making it legal and taxing it because then we get the money instead of drug dealers. It would completely destroy their market, which I think is a good thing.
 
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