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Town Hall Protesters Shout Down Disabled Woman

PogueMoran said:
I guess the guy shouldn't have tried to punch mike tyson. Then again according to apst the guy deserved to be punched because he walked through a crowd
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So I take it by your unbalanced selective outrage, that I was right on about your glaring double standard and partisan blabber?
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Show me where I called you a "liar" or retract your dishonest prevarications.
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There's nothing dishonest about it. Saying someone is lying is calling them a liar especially after it was proven you lied about something you said. There's nothing to retract. Also there's no need to say dishonest and prevarications together. The word prevarication implies dishonesty so you're saying the same thing twice.
 
I gave this some thought over my run and workout at lunch. What happened to common decency and shame? I guess being raised in the south, this is something that you imprinted with more, but its almost as though its a foreign concept anymore.

What I mean by decency, is that if you are in a disabled and in a wheel chair, the reason why people ought to have the decency not to heckle you and shout you down is not that you are weak, its that its a town hall on health care, and being in a wheel chair earns you the right to be heard for the 2 minutes it takes you to speak about what you have went through in our health care system. It doesn't matter if you are for universal health care or speaking against what you see as the problems with government health care. Either way, common decency dictates that you have earned the right to speak for a few minutes without being heckled for what you have had to endure and not belittle you for it. That does not mean that anyone has to agree with you at all. Hell I did not necessarily agree with her. We are just talking about common decency here, it has nothing to do with ideology.

For example, John McCain was tortured in Vietnam. Because of what he has endured, he has some moral authority on the issue of torture. That does not mean that anyone has to agree with him. Its just common decency that agree with him or not, because of what he has endured, he has earned the right to be heard on that issue. I remember last year when there were nut jobs out there belittling what he want through and actually accusing him of selling out his country while being tortured. That infuriated me too.

Seriously, what is with some people having to excuse, defend, or rationalize anything their side does no matter how indecent and shameless it is? I was completely against the war in Iraq, I thought it was an elective war and a neo-conservative social experiment. However, never would I defend the scum that called soldiers serving there "war criminals" or "murderers". I consider people that would say those things to be the lowest of the low, just scum, they don't represent me or my beliefs and thus I am not going to defend scum like that. I don't know how someone could call a soldier serving their country in a war a "war criminal" or "murder" and ever show their face in public again. That is the problem though, as a society, people don't feel shamed anymore no matter what they say or do. It's as though we are losing the entire concept of dignity and decency. As Jerry wrote earlier in the thread "Whatever it takes to stop UHC".

What ever it takes? Really? Decency has no value? Your dignity has no value? Others want to excuse indecency by pointing out that some union members have intimidated protesters at other town halls. OK, yeah, that's thuggish, anyone can see that, but it has nothing to do with shameless garbage heckling a disabled woman in a wheelchair when she was trying to speak. These kinds of arguments are like saying that Stalin's atrocities excuse those committed by Mao.

The point is that if you are sick, disabled, and in a wheelchair about to be destitute because of the magnitude of your medical bills, you have earned the right to be speak without being heckled or belittled for 2 minutes at a town hall. Just like if you were on socialized medicine, and sick, and the system was failing you, then you have earned the right to speak against it for a few minutes without being heckled and belittled. Its not because you are weak and you need protection. Its because if I am perfectly healthy, and who in the hell am I to heckle someone much less fortunate than me in a wheel chair when they speak for 2 minutes about health care in America. It is common decency. That is the point. If you endure great hardship, you have earned the right to speak a couple of minutes at a public forum when its relevant to what you have endured. So if your a parent that lost your kid to cancer for example, then you have earned the right to speak at a forum on cancer for a couple of minutes without being heckled or belittled by others who most likely never endured anything like it. That right does not result from any law, its common decency. Where I am from that common decency was recognized to the point that anyone that was such a sack of sh*t as to heckle a woman in a wheelchair might end up learning common decency by picking their teeth up off the sidewalk.

It doesn't mean you have to agree with them. It doesn't mean that you should not get a chance to be heard too. Yes, its rude to shout people down at a town hall on health care, but it is flat out indecent and shameful to shout down and heckle someone in a wheelchair at a town hall. I don't think anyone that has posted in this thread would do something like that. So why defend it? Why rationalize it? Why excuse it in any way? Those people that did that were acting like worthless scum. What is wrong with condemning worthless scum for what it is?
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
So I take it by your unbalanced selective outrage, that I was right on about your glaring double standard and partisan blabber?
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You really took the bait on that one. How many times do I need to repeat myself? I pointed out that those shouting people down were shouting the woman down and people on their own side. There's nothing double standard or partisan about it. Do you really just keep typing the same stuff to see your name because its obvious you're not reading what other people post?

Also you're implying that somehow a guy who started a fight and bit off more than he could chew is equal to a woman who asked a question and got shouted down. You seem to imply the woman deserved to be shouted down.
 
PogueMoran said:
There's nothing dishonest about it. Saying someone is lying is calling them a liar especially after it was proven you lied about something you said. There's nothing to retract. Also there's no need to say dishonest and prevarications together. The word prevarication implies dishonesty so you're saying the same thing twice.
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That's nice, show me where I called you a liar. This is false on your part. The forum rules prevent me from name calling, saying your argument is a lie, is not calling you a liar.

If you have a problem with it, I suggest you stop throwing a tantrum and seek out a mod for clarification. :2wave:
 
PogueMoran said:
You really took the bait on that one. How many times do I need to repeat myself? I pointed out that those shouting people down were shouting the woman down and people on their own side. There's nothing double standard or partisan about it. Do you really just keep typing the same stuff to see your name because its obvious you're not reading what other people post?

Also you're implying that somehow a guy who started a fight and bit off more than he could chew is equal to a woman who asked a question and got shouted down. You seem to imply the woman deserved to be shouted down.
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yes, saying "that's bad too" is =/= to starting threads on one side of the issue and bashing the other side with token comments of your own. sorry.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
That's nice, show me where I called you a liar. This is false on your part. The forum rules prevent me from name calling, saying your argument is a lie, is not calling you a liar.

If you have a problem with it, I suggest you stop throwing a tantrum and seek out a mod for clarification. :2wave:
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Saying I'm lying is calling me a liar. I'm sorry if logic eludes you. The forum rules sure didn't prevent you from calling me a basket case. Don't see in the rules where name calling is okay only if after you do it you try to back pedal by claiming you were joking. Keep backpeddling. You didn't call my argument a lie you specifically said I was lying when you were the one lying.

Then you try to claim people are slandering you without having an idea what the word means. This is your way of pulling things off topic though as usual
 
PogueMoran said:
Saying I'm lying is calling me a liar. I'm sorry if logic eludes you. The forum rules sure didn't prevent you from calling me a basket case. Don't see in the rules where name calling is okay only if after you do it you try to back pedal by claiming you were joking. Keep backpeddling. You didn't call my argument a lie you specifically said I was lying when you were the one lying.

Then you try to claim people are slandering you without having an idea what the word means. This is your way of pulling things off topic though as usual
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Ok, I had enough of your constant crying. If you have a problem with me, seek out a mod. I am done entertaining your tantrum. :shrug:
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
yes, saying "that's bad too" is =/= to starting threads on one side of the issue and bashing the other side with token comments of your own. sorry.
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Token comments of my own? I started the thread saying they shouted down the woman and shouted down people on their side. I didn't make opinions until after people started posting. Then you tried to compare it to something unrelated. I didn't take a side in my original post. Try rereading it. They shouted down people who tried to act intellectual who they thought were liberal democrats. Being independent that's not taking a side I mentioned what happened. Also the republicans from day 1 stated they wanted to kill health reform because it would hurt the democrats chances. Also that health care reform if it passed would kill republican electoral prospects
 
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So basically, if I am led to believe he was against the bill, he is almost now leaning towards supporting it because people were acting like an angry mob.

It is a slightly ironic statement, given that he spends the last two minutes of his piece talking about the need for rational debate without giving into senseless emotions.

Lastly, these town hall meetings, as the reporter could vouch for (as an apparent centrist), it would be reasonable to assume that if you get a hot enough issue, people on both sides of the isle are going to be engaged in bad behavior. The thing that interests me, however, is the partisan use of these protesters from "both" sides. The Democratic base might use the protesters as irrational angry mobs that are too stupid to see the truth that this legislation needs to be put forward in its entirety, while the Republican base, perhaps seemingly forgetful about past uses of the same tactic by their opponents, now raise the people engaged in such behavior as passionate American patriots who need to resist this terrible, or perhaps downright evil legislation.

In the end, this is why I think the reporter, though apparently a reasonable person, became just a little more like the mobs he was criticizing. Sometimes becoming involved in these emotional places can indeed affect your behavior, which is why the people became hecklers in the first place.
 
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dragondad said:
I love the two ladies at the 4:40 time point.

They articulate their argument much the same way these right wing lemmings in this forum do.

By being 100% misinformed.
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Well, most people are uninformed or misinformed. I know I certainly am not all that knowledgeable on this subject in any way. "Left wing lemmings" will do the same thing, but do they know much about what they are talking about? More than likely not.
 
It's nice to see some people on the left using a disabled person to forward their own purely partisan agenda. This whole game of "my side is better than yours" is getting ridiculous. I saw the video and there was rudeness all around from both sides. This is bound to happen on a political issue that people are passionate about. It would be nice if these town hall meetings could remain civil, but that's obviously not going to happen, especially with an issue like this.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
It's nice to see some people on the left using a disabled person to forward their own purely partisan agenda. This whole game of "my side is better than yours" is getting ridiculous. I saw the video and there was rudeness all around from both sides. This is bound to happen on a political issue that people are passionate about. It would be nice if these town hall meetings could remain civil, but that's obviously not going to happen, especially with an issue like this.
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It's indecent, that's the problem. Shouting down people at town halls is rude and childish. Shouting down a disabled woman talking about how her medical bills are the point of her being at risk of losing her home is indecent. Video is here:

Wheelchair-Bound Woman Shouted Down At New Jersey Health Care Town Hall (VIDEO)

I guess this kind of shameless behavior is perfectly acceptable in New Jersey, but it's the lowest of low where I am from. I don't even agree with what the woman was obviously implying should be the solution (some kind of single payer system), but that is neither here nor there. When are people from either side going to start condemning and shaming this kind of shameless garbage.
 
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apdst said:
Sure, enjoy:

Man's Finger Bitten Off in Scuffle at Health Care Rally - KTLA
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I just saw the anti-HC Reform thug interviewed on Fox News & he admitted to throwing the first few punches...which all landed.
To bad the guy didn't bite off his whole hand!!.....I would have.


This is what you GOP thugs wanted to happen in this country...Stop any REAL exchange of info & turn these town hall meetings into scream fests where no one can be heard.

This is why America hates the present day GOP!
 
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apdst said:
Ain't it great living in America? Everyone has a voice.
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yeah but there is no reason to be proud to have some coutrymen who are misinformed to such a level
 
Its threads like this that really cause me to lose all faith in humanity. Anything people can do to keep from admitting that in this case, the extremists on their side were acting like total douche bags.
 
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Devil505 said:
I just saw the anti-HC Reform thug interviewed on Fox News & he admitted to throwing the first few punches...which all landed.
To bad the guy didn't bite off his whole hand!!.....I would have.


This is what you GOP thugs wanted to happen in this country...Stop any REAL exchange of info & turn these town hall meetings into scream fests where no one can be heard.

This is why America hates the present day GOP!
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No, this is what happens when you stick a bunch of concerned, passionate, and uninformed ordinary people into a building. Democrats would be doing the exact same thing if they fit into any of these categories.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Its threads like this that really cause me to lose all faith in humanity. Anything people can do to keep from admitting that in this case, the extremists on their side were acting like total douche bags.
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OMG, can we like totally have a big anti-partisan group hug now?
 
Fiddytree said:
No, this is what happens when you stick a bunch of concerned, passionate, and uninformed ordinary people into a building. Democrats would be doing the exact same thing if they fit into any of these categories.
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Where I disagree with you is on the "ordinary" people part. You have to be pretty much a total douche bag to act like these people were acting. Ordinary people have the decency not to act like that.

I am not saying that there are not douche bags like that on the left. Of course there are, look at left wing extremists that were calling Iraq veterans "war criminals". What I am saying though is that ordinary people don't act like this.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Where I disagree with you is on the "ordinary" people part. You have to be pretty much a total douche bag to act like these people were acting. Ordinary people have the decency not to act like that.

I am not saying that there are not douche bags like that on the left. Of course there are, look at left wing extremists that were calling Iraq veterans "war criminals". What I am saying though is that ordinary people don't act like this.
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Ordinary people don't have to clothe their disgust for the other man or woman with formal language like their professional colleagues do. Otherwise, I would say people are people, and if you get emotional, concerned people into a building, it's like watching the temperature rise.
 
jallman said:
OMG, can we like totally have a big anti-partisan group hug now?
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For whatever reason you can't bring yourself to criticize anything your base does. I am convinced that if right wing health care protesters were on video raping fetuses at a town hall you the supposed "centrist" would some how try to rationalize or excuse it.
 
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I'm angry that they heckled her, wheelchair or none (even though they should have showed more respect for her for the wheelchair, due to the hardships she has been forced to go through and probably still goes through). I thought town halls were supposed to be about Intellectual Discussions with your Congressman, not heckling matches. Both sides need to shut up and chill out. If you can't have an intellegent discussion without yelling over someone trying to ask the question they have a right to ask, then you shouldn't be there. Sure, you have the right to be their, but you also have the right to do a lot of things that are just stupid.
 
Being a wheelchair is irrelevant, shouting someone down simply trying to ask a question is deplorable no matter who it is. However, heckling people who ramble endlessly without coming to a point or who make an ass of themselves with ridiculous accusations is perfectly valid in my mind, wheelchair or no wheelchair.

The link showed only a brief clip of the woman, but it seemed to me she was rambling and the crowd was mostly heckling her by asking "what's your question?" Who knows how long she had been going on before the clip we saw. No one wants to hear someone go on a diatribe about their personal problems.
 
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