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Palin Endorsed End Of Life Counseling As Governor

talloulou said:
The problem is the bill is like 1000 pages long and hardly anyone is going to read it. Instead they're listening to radio and getting all hysterical. It doesn't help matters much though that there are sound bites of Obama talking about his grandmom and how much chronically ill and terminally ill people cost and how there are moral questions as to whether we should pay for things like his grandmom's hip replacement. Freaking the 'ol timers out. :mrgreen:
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Seriously though, should a bill that reforms insurance, medicare, and much of the existing health system be only a couple of pages long?

I am not saying its a great bill, I don't think it is, but it would not matter what was in it, the loons out there are going to get hysterical. Its what they do, if they are breathing, they are buying into ridiculous conspiracy theories.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Seriously though, should a bill that reforms insurance, medicare, and much of the existing health system be only a couple of pages long?

I am not saying its a great bill, I don't think it is, but it would not matter what was in it, the loons out there are going to get hysterical. Its what they do, if they are breathing, they are buying into ridiculous conspiracy theories.
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All I know is I couldn't get through it.

As far as the hysteria goes it's pretty inevitable, isn't it? If the health care industry was changed that drastically it would be a huge deal. And once things like that change, they tend to stay changed. People aren't sure what to expect. They're panicking and the 24 hour cable news networks are eating it up. Plus the pundits have gotten so damn nasty lately. Sure MSNBC has leaned to the left for a long time while Fox leans to the right. But now they are so obvious about it. You can't watch more than 10 minutes without zingers and insults flying. Jeezus.
 
apdst said:
I got a C-note for the first person who posts language from the actual bill that proves Palin wrong. You must provide section, paragraph, line and page numbers.

Anyone got the balls for that one?
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You don't get how it works. You and the ex-governor of Alaska have made a claim that the bill says something that is doesn't.

Prove it. Show us where. Explain your interpretation of the current text of the bill -- tell us how the 'death panels' will work according to the bill.

But understand this: The rest of us are not obliged or interested in showing you where something is not. I have no idea where the health care bill doesn't mention death panels. Get it? We can't think crazy just to read and see the bill the way you do.

Good luck with the death panels.

Meanwhile, I'll post this updated fact check of Palin's continued misinterpreting of the health care bill.

Palin claims Obama misled when he said end-of-life counseling is voluntary

In her Facebook response the following day, Palin accused Obama of fudging the truth.

"With all due respect, it’s misleading for the President to describe this section as an entirely voluntary provision that simply increases the information offered to Medicare recipients. The issue is the context in which that information is provided and the coercive effect these consultations will have in that context."

Palin then accurately cited some of the language Section 1233 of the House version of the health care plan, which is titled "Advanced Care Planning Consultation."

As Palin says, the provision "authorizes advanced care planning consultations for senior citizens on Medicare every five years, and more often 'if there is a significant change in the health condition of the individual ... or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a long-term care facility... or a hospice program.' During those consultations, practitioners must explain 'the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,' and the government benefits available to pay for such services."

Palin then argues that this provision must be viewed in the context of a health care bill whose stated purpose is "to reduce the growth in health care spending."

"Is it any wonder," Palin writes, "that senior citizens might view such consultations as attempts to convince them to help reduce health care costs by accepting minimal end-of-life care?"

That's an opinion. What we're trying to get at here is Palin's claim that the end-of-life counseling is not "entirely voluntary."

When we wrote about McCaughey's claim that the end-of-life counseling was mandatory, we cited several health care experts who said McCaughey was simply misreading the provision, that the bill would make the counseling available, but voluntary.

In no way would these sessions be designed to encourage patients to end their lives, said Jim Dau, national spokesman for AARP, a group that represents people over 50 and has lobbied in support of the advanced planning provision.
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SouthernDemocrat said:
Seriously though, should a bill that reforms insurance, medicare, and much of the existing health system be only a couple of pages long?
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It shouldn't be so complex that even the people that support it don't know what the hell it says and make themselves look like simpletons in it's defense.

I am not saying its a great bill,...
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Well, then don't you think the American people deserve a great bill? The health care system in this country isn't so ****ed up that we need to **** it up even more.
 
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hazlnut said:
You don't get how it works. You and the ex-governor of Alaska have made a claim that the bill says something that is doesn't.

Prove it. Show us where. Explain your interpretation of the current text of the bill -- tell us how the 'death panels' will work according to the bill.

But understand this: The rest of us are not obliged or interested in showing you where something is not. I have no idea where the health care bill doesn't mention death panels. Get it? We can't think crazy just to read and see the bill the way you do.

Good luck with the death panels.

Meanwhile, I'll post this updated fact check of Palin's continued misinterpreting of the health care bill.

Palin claims Obama misled when he said end-of-life counseling is voluntary
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Please sir, use actual language from the bill to prove me wrong. Thanks in advance.
 
apdst said:
Please sir, use actual language from the bill to prove me wrong. Thanks in advance.
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You owe Southern Dem $100 -- are you going to pay up or what?

He has more patience with your stupid games than me.
 
apdst said:
Please sir, use actual language from the bill to prove me wrong. Thanks in advance.
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Nowhere in the bill does it say that there are not death panels. This does not mean that it contains any language to implement death panels. Please sir, using actual language from the bill to show that there are death panels. Thanks in advance.
 
apdst said:
Well, then don't you think the American people deserve a great bill?
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Few things that have ever came out of Washington have been "Great" aside from National Parks and the Wilderness Act. However, they do occasionally do something good. You cannot have a good bill when you have people out there screaming at town halls to "Keep your damn government out of my Medicare", and buying into garbage like these loony "government death panels".

You see to get a good bill, you can't outsource your thinking to a habitual liar in Alaska, you have to be objective, and you have to make reasonable critiques about what is actually in the bills up for consideration. Do that, and you might possibly get something resembling a good bill in the end. Or the extremists can continue to invent these absurd rumors and scream about them on talk radio and in town halls and you are guaranteed to get a bad bill. Basically, either way, the people will get what they deserve.
 
hazlnut said:
You owe Southern Dem $100 -- are you going to pay up or what?

He has more patience with your stupid games than me.
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I don't owe him jack ****. He didn't prove a goddamn thing. Neither did you, sport.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Few things that have ever came out of Washington have been "Great" aside from National Parks and the Wilderness Act.
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All the more reason for their asses to stay out of it.
 
Redress said:
Nowhere in the bill does it say that there are not death panels. This does not mean that it contains any language to implement death panels. Please sir, using actual language from the bill to show that there are death panels. Thanks in advance.
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I'e already proven that the bill accords the ending of life sustaining care for the elderly. It's up to you prove me that it says something other than that. Good luck.
 
apdst said:
I'e already proven that the bill accords the ending of life sustaining care for the elderly. It's up to you prove me that it says something other than that. Good luck.
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No you have not. That is not even remotely true. In point of fact, every claim you have made about the bill, except maybe one, has been disproven.
 
Redress said:
No you have not. That is not even remotely true. In point of fact, every claim you have made about the bill, except maybe one, has been disproven.
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Yes, I have and you know it. Be a man, for a change and admit it.
 
The reality is....just like the "birthers"....the majority of those who are against Obama's healthcare plans concede that the "death panels" is nothing more than extremist fringe propoganda. You don't see any credible Republican pressing this issue.

The funny thing is the only ones attempting to press the issue here are the lunatic fringe on this site.

It makes for good comic fodder though.
 
Redress said:
I think it is hilarious that the right actually thinks that we on the left would actually want death panels, or telling granny she has to die.
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I don't think anyone outside of politicians and bureaucrats wants that. I do think that it is the inevitable result of the uber-regulation that is being proposed, and that in y'all's zeal to get public options and government health insurance, you're going to look down and suddenly see death panels and folks deciding whose life is "worth" continuing and whose life is not "worth" continuing. They will sneak up and catch you by surprise and then you'll have no choice but to lament the cruel "necessity" of them.

There is no other practical way to alter the basic dynamic that chronically ill people use more health care than everyone else. If you don't want chronically ill people being 80% of the nation's health care bill, you're going to have to tell them to stop going to the doctor quite so much--and that's a "death panel."
 
apdst said:
I'e already proven that the bill accords the ending of life sustaining care for the elderly.
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IF the elderly patient stipulates in a living will beforehand that they do not wish to have life sustaining care.

Is it your position that an elderly patient should not be able to make such end of life choices? Face it, your Alaska GILF is obviously an idiot or a liar or both. That doesn't mean you can't still fantasize about her. Just look at this way, instead of being that wholesome Alaskan mother (of kids with terrible names) in your fantasy, she can now be the stupid chick in your fantasies, or the hateful chick in your fantasies. In fact, if you make her the hateful chick in your fantasies you could even throw Ann Coulter in with her as her hatemongering, nut job, tranny lover. Maybe you can fantasize about giving her a spanking for lying to you all this time.

Either way, I know it has to be devastating to you, and I feel bad for you, so you don't have to send me that 100 dollars.
 
apdst said:
Did Palin propose that elderly Americans be denied medical care, because they weren't worth the investment, like PBO wants to do? Show me where she did that and I'll agree with you.
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No she didn't, and neither did Republican Senator Johnny Issakson, who was the one who put the amendment in the bill that is making its way through Congress.
 
Not one elected official in the US congress or senate has either proposed, stated, or added to any healthcare bill anything about death panels. The whole story is a non-story, unless you want to talk about the rent-a-republicans who are promoting this stuff.

Betsy McCaughey is the one responsible for the latest lies. She's being paid by several for profit medical supply companies.

Freedom Works is the "grass roots" organizer feeding the ugly talkiing points and posters to "grass roots" every day "Joes". OOPS, they forgot to tell folks they're being paid by insurance companies!

Oh, and let's not forget 60plus, who say they're advocates for seniors, but who also recieve their funding from insurance lobbies.

Since Palin is out of a job, I'm pretty certain she's now a Rent-A-Republican too! I hear the insurance companies are willing to pay big bucks for folks to sink this bill!

Maybe you can be a Rent-A-Republican! Or a Rent-A-Grassroots Patriot!
 
I'll tell you one thing:

The Dems would be very smart if THEY (secretly) funded her political campaign, should she run for President someday.
(In addition to Russia, She can also see the trailer park from her house)
 
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Lol... yet another palin thread /facepalm




So is the OP by attacking the former governer of Alaska with this nonsense, by posting this, admitting that Obama wants these so called "death counseling"? :lol:
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Lol... yet another palin thread /facepalm




So is the OP by attacking the former governer of Alaska with this nonsense, by posting this, admitting that Obama wants these so called "death counseling"? :lol:
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Once more, the end of life provision of the bill is a Republican amendment.
 
Redress said:
No you have not. That is not even remotely true. In point of fact, every claim you have made about the bill, except maybe one, has been disproven.
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Regardless of the high regard in which you hold yourself, just you saying I'm wrong doesn't mean that I'm actually wrong. Now, if you can use the the bill to prove me wrong, then that's different. Can you?



SouthernDemocrat said:
IF the elderly patient stipulates in a living will beforehand that they do not wish to have life sustaining care.

Is it your position that an elderly patient should not be able to make such end of life choices? Face it, your Alaska GILF is obviously an idiot or a liar or both. That doesn't mean you can't still fantasize about her. Just look at this way, instead of being that wholesome Alaskan mother (of kids with terrible names) in your fantasy, she can now be the stupid chick in your fantasies, or the hateful chick in your fantasies. In fact, if you make her the hateful chick in your fantasies you could even throw Ann Coulter in with her as her hatemongering, nut job, tranny lover. Maybe you can fantasize about giving her a spanking for lying to you all this time.

Either way, I know it has to be devastating to you, and I feel bad for you, so you don't have to send me that 100 dollars.
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It doesn't matter how many different ways you say it, you're still wrong.
 
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