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Republican Attacks FISHY White House Request

I dont care if such things are orchestrated by a group regardless of the group if they have legitimate complaints or questions. Is it not the right of the people or groups of people to express thier concerns?

Look at Acorn who are organizing against these "mobs". How are they any different? While I may not agree with their opinion I fully support their right to voice that opinion.
 
Don't Tase Me Bro said:
That was Richard Armitage, not George Bush.
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I spent most of my life as a Special Agent in the Justice Dept & can categorically tell you that Armitage would not have done anything without clear, unambiguous direction from either Bush or Cheney or probably both.
Government employees excel at CYA. (to believe otherwise discloses a real naivete on how government really works.
 
galenrox said:
If the private market is pushed out in any way by the government, as the public plan is bound to do significantly by the nature of price competition (if you can operate at a loss, as the federal government can and inevitably will, you can price your competitors out of the market)
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So your argument is that, since a government plan will be less expensive because we won't be forced to pay greedy profits to insurance CEO's, that is bad & we should continue being raped by them?

galenrox said:
It is 100% guaranteed that there will be government rationing of health care. serious problems with our relationship with our government.
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I don't see ANY Congressmen or Senators complaining about the government run, "Socialist" HC program that covers them......or the military.

Scare tactics no longer overcome intelligence & if we don't do something now, you will soon be paying over 1/2 of your disposable income to the health industry.
 
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Baralis said:
I dont care if such things are orchestrated by a group regardless of the group if they have legitimate complaints or questions. Is it not the right of the people or groups of people to express thier concerns?
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It is not the right of some people to trample on MY Freedom of Speech....That's what we're talking about here.
 
Devil505 said:
No...but paid operatives attempting to squelch freedom of speech are worse than child molesters. Child molesters are mentally ill........operatives are thugs for hire.
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How many threads are you going to spread this lie?
 
celticlord said:
If said proof is not posted on DP at the end of a week, will you make public apology for your slanders and inane conspiracy theories?

If the proof is not forthcoming, will you own these words you have spoken?

If you will not, to whom should we report you?
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While I never agree with your views Celticlord I usually respect you intellect & debate qualities.

Not this time however

I am a chess player & will not fall for the obvious trap you have tried to set:

..."If said proof is not posted on DP at the end of a week, will you make public apology for your slanders and inane conspiracy theories?"....


1. If ironclad proof emerges in EIGHT days my point is still valid, only my crystal ball was slightly off with timing.

2. No matter what proof I report, your side will simply claim it "proves nothing"


As the "Whopper" computer says (in the 1983 movie "Wargames").....The only way to win your game is not to play.


As far as this is concerned: "If you will not, to whom should we report you?

Report me??? (I don't know .......how about Mom??)
 
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Devil505 said:
I am a chess player & will not fall for the obvious trap you have tried to set:
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You ran from the challenge right into the trap. Sacrificed a knight to save a pawn.

Devil505 said:
..."If said proof is not posted on DP at the end of a week, will you make public apology for your slanders and inane conspiracy theories?"....
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That's the challenge....now let's look at the trap.

Devil505 said:
1. If ironclad proof emerges in eight days my point is still valid
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Very true. And if the ironclad proof emerged after eight days, you apologizing after only seven would only serve to raise your presentation of yourself as being a man of character and decency. Such an apology would do you no harm and potentially much good. Agreeing to make such an apology could only strengthen your argument.

The conclusion to be drawn from your refusal to make such agreement is that you do not believe yourself that such evidence exists or will be published--you do not believe it will be published in seven days, you do not believe it will be published in seven weeks, you do not believe it will be published in seven months, you do not believe it will be published in seven years. You do not believe there is such evidence. That is the position you have given yourself by this refusal.

Devil505 said:
2. No matter what proof I report, your side will simply claim it "proves nothing"
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This merely proves your irrationality.

If such proof is never going to be accepted by "my side" (am curious as to what side is "my side", but no matter), then your entire argument is futile. Not only do you not believe you have such evidence, you don't even believe you can score a hit with it, or even with the intimation of it. You come at this doubting not the strength my arguments, but your own.

As the "Whopper" computer says (in the 1983 movie "Wargames").....The only way to win your game is not to play.
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Yes, that is the general consensus of those who play chess with me ;)
 
celticlord said:
Very true. And if the ironclad proof emerged after eight days, you apologizing after only seven would only serve to raise your presentation of yourself as being a man of character and decency. Such an apology would do you no harm and potentially much good. Agreeing to make such an apology could only strengthen your argument.
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Come on Celtilord!! ( we both know that if I said I was wrong (on the 7th day) & ironclad proof emerged on the EIGHTH day........You would undoubtedly attach my apology as your signature on this forum!:lol: (you know you would);)

celticlord said:
The conclusion to be drawn from your refusal to make such agreement is that you do not believe yourself that such evidence exists or will be published--you do not believe it will be published in seven days, you do not believe it will be published in seven weeks, you do not believe it will be published in seven months, you do not believe it will be published in seven years. You do not believe there is such evidence. That is the position you have given yourself by this refusal.
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That's YOUR conclusion, but an incorrect one. I explained my reasons above & if you choose not to believe me, that is your right...You have a right to be wrong & exercise that right repeatedly.;)
 
Devil505 said:
Come on Celtilord!! ( we both know that if I said I was wrong (on the 7th day) & ironclad proof emerged on the EIGHTH day........You would undoubtedly attach my apology as your signature on this forum!:lol: (you know you would);)
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1. I'm rather particular about whom I quote in my signature line--trust me when I say you have no worries about appearing there. ;)

2. On any day you can present ironclad proof of protests staged by paid operatives of the RNC, I will be happy to acknowledge it as such. If you can show a money trail, I will acknowledge there is a money trail. If you can show collusion and planning, I will acknowledge there is collusion and planning. You don't even need to wait for the 8th day--you can post such ironclad evidence now (or, rather, you could if you had any, but since we both realize you doubt you will ever have such proofs, that won't happen).
 
celticlord said:
2. On any day you can present ironclad proof of protests staged by paid operatives of the RNC, I will be happy to acknowledge it as such. If you can show a money trail, I will acknowledge there is a money trail. If you can show collusion and planning, I will acknowledge there is collusion and planning. You don't even need to wait for the 8th day--you can post such ironclad evidence now
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I believe you. (keep watching the news)
 
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celticlord said:
So....if the proof fails to materialize...will you apologize? Yes or No?
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I would have nothing to APOLOGIZE for.(I named no names or slandered any individual) In the very unlikely event that I was wrong about many of the loudest protester (yelling RNC talking points & holding up Nazi placards at HC town hall meetings) being paid operatives from the RNC or other far right organizations, I will indeed post a retraction.
 
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absurd

armitage and novak were engaged in a whispering campaign pointedly OPPOSED to w's neocon adventure in iraq

armitage and novak are genghis con's, old line isolationist conservatives

novak opposed THE FIRST GULF WAR

LOLOL!

this is why no one talks about ms plame and her ridiculous husband anymore

armitage was dispatched by the veep---LOLOLOLOL!
 
send these FISH to RAHM on my behalf

because unfortunately they flop frighteningly with LIFE

1. waxman/rangel FINES, as criminal, individual americans caught breathing without insurance, that's pelosi/obama's view of UNIVERSAL care, this is how they intend to HELP, we'll just FINE em

2. waxman/rangel contemplates massive CUTS TO MEDICARED AND MEDICAID, which is what spurred the revolt-like protest of DEMOCRAT governors, bill richardson, phil bredesen (who called leadership's efforts to sluff off federal responsibilities, "the mother of unfunded mandates"), christine gregoire, bill ritter

3. according to CBO boss doug elmendorf (in testimony before max baucus' GATEWAY cmte---senate finance---under questioning from kent conrad, ie, NOT mitch mcconnell), the COST CURVE under waxman/rangel, contrary to reversing its trajectory as required to underscore the ENTIRE ambition of obama/pelosi, rather instead STEEPENS its upward course---SIGNIFICANTLY, elmendorf added, july 16

4. ILLEGALS are intently included in ALL meditated expansions of coverage, per the FAILURE of the heller amendment in rangel's ways and means (july 17) which would have required enforcement of e-verify to ensure only legal citizens be insured

5. waxman/rangel contemplates changes to public funding of abortion on demand, bluedog bugaboo

6. END OF LIFE COSTS lie bullseye-like in the crosshairs of pelosi/obama which is just FREAKING OUT our senior citizens (just wait til they hear that pedro and paloma are provided for, but no hip replacement post septuagnarian)

7. the phony prez is on record as not having read the bill, gibbs said this week he does not expect the prez ever to peruse the 1000 pages

8. according to obama and barney frank, reform currently composed is to serve as a FOOT IN THE DOOR to complete nationalization further down the road, ie, INCREMENTALISM

9. per john f kerry on senator baucus' GATEWAY cmte (senate finance), MEDICAL BENEFITS WILL BE TAXED, the very MCCAIN PLAN obama so rightly SAVAGED the nattering gop nominee for broaching during the campaign

10. poll numbers prove that concern about each of the above issues is groundswell, grassroots and growing, 71% ACCORDING TO QUINNIPIAC (not allstate insurance) do NOT BELIEVE the president when he says he can expand coverage to 50 million or so (1/3 of whom are illegal) without greatly impacting the deficit

sorry

send these LIVE fish to rahm for me

inform the false chief of staff they flow forth from the fearless enfilade of The faithful, far seeing Prof

focus him fully on the FACTS
 
Yo I keep sending that email address lies and misinformation coming out from the obama admin and the democrats, but it goes unanswered! :shrug:
 
Devil505 said:
I would have nothing to APOLOGIZE for.(I named no names or slandered any individual) In the very unlikely event that I was wrong about many of the loudest protester (yelling RNC talking points & holding up Nazi placards at HC town hall meetings) being paid operatives from the RNC or other far right organizations, I will indeed post a retraction.
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Really so calling me a Nazi isn't Slander what do you consider Slander then huh, Oh and for the record 505 I iwll be attending one of these nice town hall Meetings and I plan on asking a few very hard questions and if the two folks who are going ot be their don't answer or try to side step my question then I will let them have it. So are you going ot now say that I'm one f these so-called Paid RNC Folks huh.
 
galenrox said:
Alright, let's think about this. You're running a conservative political operation, hiring operatives to infiltrate protests, presumably to further a conservative interest. Why in the **** would you have these operatives hold up Nazi placards?
I mean, someone with even the most basic deductive capabilities would realize that if those individuals are in fact paid political operatives they'd be liberal operatives, as there is no possible political benefit in making your fiscal movement look like it's a bunch of nazis.
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Because their idiots trying to paint Obama & HC reform as Nazis!...Get it!

(same idiocy that had most Repubs voting against Sotomayer's confirmation & thereby further making the Repub party hated by the latino community.
 
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The Prof said:
send these FISH to RAHM on my behalf

because unfortunately they flop frighteningly with LIFE

1. waxman/rangel FINES, as criminal, individual americans caught breathing without insurance, that's pelosi/obama's view of UNIVERSAL care, this is how they intend to HELP, we'll just FINE em

2. waxman/rangel contemplates massive CUTS TO MEDICARED AND MEDICAID, which is what spurred the revolt-like protest of DEMOCRAT governors, bill richardson, phil bredesen (who called leadership's efforts to sluff off federal responsibilities, "the mother of unfunded mandates"), christine gregoire, bill ritter

3. according to CBO boss doug elmendorf (in testimony before max baucus' GATEWAY cmte---senate finance---under questioning from kent conrad, ie, NOT mitch mcconnell), the COST CURVE under waxman/rangel, contrary to reversing its trajectory as required to underscore the ENTIRE ambition of obama/pelosi, rather instead STEEPENS its upward course---SIGNIFICANTLY, elmendorf added, july 16

4. ILLEGALS are intently included in ALL meditated expansions of coverage, per the FAILURE of the heller amendment in rangel's ways and means (july 17) which would have required enforcement of e-verify to ensure only legal citizens be insured

5. waxman/rangel contemplates changes to public funding of abortion on demand, bluedog bugaboo

6. END OF LIFE COSTS lie bullseye-like in the crosshairs of pelosi/obama which is just FREAKING OUT our senior citizens (just wait til they hear that pedro and paloma are provided for, but no hip replacement post septuagnarian)

7. the phony prez is on record as not having read the bill, gibbs said this week he does not expect the prez ever to peruse the 1000 pages

8. according to obama and barney frank, reform currently composed is to serve as a FOOT IN THE DOOR to complete nationalization further down the road, ie, INCREMENTALISM

9. per john f kerry on senator baucus' GATEWAY cmte (senate finance), MEDICAL BENEFITS WILL BE TAXED, the very MCCAIN PLAN obama so rightly SAVAGED the nattering gop nominee for broaching during the campaign

10. poll numbers prove that concern about each of the above issues is groundswell, grassroots and growing, 71% ACCORDING TO QUINNIPIAC (not allstate insurance) do NOT BELIEVE the president when he says he can expand coverage to 50 million or so (1/3 of whom are illegal) without greatly impacting the deficit

sorry

send these LIVE fish to rahm for me

inform the false chief of staff they flow forth from the fearless enfilade of The faithful, far seeing Prof

focus him fully on the FACTS
Click to expand...

All lies & misinformation put out by the insurance companies & the GOP.
 
Last night a TV commentator hit the nail on the head, I believe. His belief is that most of these angry protests are not really aimed at HC reform but displays of anger that Obama won the election.
That's what this all boils down to...Hatred (for whatever reason) & anger that after 8 years of power, the Repub party is now relegated to a small, regional group of angry old white, Christian men.
 
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galenrox said:
Alright, let's think about this. You're running a conservative political operation, hiring operatives to infiltrate protests, presumably to further a conservative interest. Why in the **** would you have these operatives hold up Nazi placards?
I mean, someone with even the most basic deductive capabilities would realize that if those individuals are in fact paid political operatives they'd be liberal operatives, as there is no possible political benefit in making your fiscal movement look like it's a bunch of nazis.
Click to expand...

(Can't edit my original post anymore but I wanted to add a few lines)



Because they're idiots trying to paint Obama & HC reform as Nazis!...Get it!



same idiocy that had McCain, who had been effectively running against Obama as to young & untried.....Then picking Sarah Palin as his running mate????

same idiocy that had most Repubs voting against judge Sotomayer's confirmation, knowing full well she would be easily confirmed anyway but ensuring the ,loss of most Latino votes for the forseeable future.

same idiocy that had many Repubs defend this country's use of torture


(I could go on all day)
 
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Devil505 said:
Last night a TV commentator hit the nail on the head, I believe. His belief is that most of these angry protests are not really aimed at HC reform but displays of anger that Obama won the election.
That's what this all boils down to...Hatred (for whatever reason) & anger that after 8 years of power, the Repub party is now relegated to a small, regional group of angry old white, Christian men.
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Breitbart.tv AARP Organizers Cancel ‘Listening Session’ After Participants Refuse to ‘Keep Their Comments Quiet’

So members of AARP objecting to AARP's stance on health care, to the point of cancelling their AARP memberships, is a put-up job because somebody is miffed that Dear Leader won last fall?

Protesters Confront U.S. Representative At Simsbury Supermarket Meeting -- Courant.com

But many who attended were not affiliated with an established group. Maryann Culkin, a stay-at-home mother from Avon, said she represents no one but herself. She went to Stop & Shop simply because she wanted to have a word or two with her congressman.

"For the first time in my life, I'm embarrassed and scared of where my country is going," Culkin told Murphy. She is worried about how the government will pay for Obama's health care policies.
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So the Maryann Culkins of Connecticut are the paid stoolies of "angry old white, Christian men"?

Tempers flare in South Florida over healthcare overhaul - Today's Top Stories - MiamiHerald.com

From Connecticut, to Florida, to Texas--that's a pretty large "region" for the "angry old white, Christian men."

OR

It's the real deal. People are really that displeased with the dung heap of HR3200, really that disturbed at the probability of new and oppressive taxes to pay for the privilege of having less of what they already have (health insurance and health care), and are really that disapproving of the government sticking its nose that far into people's private affairs.

Perhaps the Anti-Republicans need to re-read the Constitution, and re-consider government's defined place in American society per the Constitution. Of a certainty, that renowned Constitutional scholar Dear Leader should be introduced to a brief lesson in the Constitution:

t_space.gif

"Ours was the first revolution in the history of mankind that truly reversed the course of government, and with three little words: 'We the people.' 'We the people' tell the government what to do, it doesn't tell us. 'We the people' are the driver, the government is the car. And we decide where it should go, and by what route, and how fast. Almost all the world's constitutions are documents in which governments tell the people what their privileges are. Our Constitution is a document in which 'We the people' tell the government what it is allowed to do. 'We the people' are free.
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​
"We the People" are telling Congress and Dear Leader to STOP.

STOP spending money America does not have.

STOP driving up the deficit with huge unfunded entitlements.

STOP pushing GovernmentCare on people who like what they have.

STOP threatening to tax health insurance to pay for GovernmentCare.

So far, the Anti-Republican response to "We the People" has been "Oh, the people are idiots, we don't have to listen to them."
 
celticlord said:
Breitbart.tv AARP Organizers Cancel ‘Listening Session’ After Participants Refuse to ‘Keep Their Comments Quiet’

So members of AARP objecting to AARP's stance on health care, to the point of cancelling their AARP memberships, is a put-up job because somebody is miffed that Dear Leader won last fall?

Protesters Confront U.S. Representative At Simsbury Supermarket Meeting -- Courant.com

So the Maryann Culkins of Connecticut are the paid stoolies of "angry old white, Christian men"?

Tempers flare in South Florida over healthcare overhaul - Today's Top Stories - MiamiHerald.com

From Connecticut, to Florida, to Texas--that's a pretty large "region" for the "angry old white, Christian men."

OR

It's the real deal. People are really that displeased with the dung heap of HR3200, really that disturbed at the probability of new and oppressive taxes to pay for the privilege of having less of what they already have (health insurance and health care), and are really that disapproving of the government sticking its nose that far into people's private affairs.

Perhaps the Anti-Republicans need to re-read the Constitution, and re-consider government's defined place in American society per the Constitution. Of a certainty, that renowned Constitutional scholar Dear Leader should be introduced to a brief lesson in the Constitution:

t_space.gif


​
"We the People" are telling Congress and Dear Leader to STOP.

STOP spending money America does not have.

STOP driving up the deficit with huge unfunded entitlements.

STOP pushing GovernmentCare on people who like what they have.

STOP threatening to tax health insurance to pay for GovernmentCare.

So far, the Anti-Republican response to "We the People" has been "Oh, the people are idiots, we don't have to listen to them."
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I just don't buy this sudden fear of how we're going to pay for things that some people claim. I heard none of these fears when Bush got this country into two never ending wars & cut taxes at the same time.

We all see this crap for what it really is...GOP Fiscal Responsibility ONLY when a Dem is in the White House & a continuance of the Karl Rove style, "Fear Based" politics that was soundly rejected in the last two elections when the GOP was thrown out of the White House & most of Congress.

Edit: & yes....I believe those linked meetings you attached disclose carefully staged, HC Industry/GOP operatives attempting to deceive (their usual tactic) the media into thinking that this country doesn't want HC reform.(It's so Ham Handed & obvious that it's just the latest insult to the intelligence of the average America)
 
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Devil505 said:
I just don't buy this sudden fear of how we're going to pay for things that some people claim. I heard none of these fears when Bush got this country into two never ending wars & cut taxes at the same time.
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I disagree, spending on the war was an issue by some, I don't have a problem if the spending is efficient when it comes to defense, as that is a power and responsibilty of the fed, there were, however, some inefficiencies and we will certainly be paying for those.

We all see this crap for what it really is...GOP Fiscal Responsibility ONLY when a Dem is in the White House & a continuance of the Karl Rove style, "Fear Based" politics that was soundly rejected in the last two elections when the GOP was thrown out of the White House & most of Congress.
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I don't know whether it is fake fiscal responsibility on the Republican side or that the offenders were removed from office by the voters, time will tell on that.

Edit: & yes....I believe those linked meetings you attached disclose carefully staged, HC Industry/GOP operatives attempting to deceive (their usual tactic) the media into thinking that this country doesn't want HC reform.(It's so Ham Handed & obvious that it's just the latest insult to the intelligence of the average America)
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Here's the thing though, polling is showing that americans in fact don't want UHC as it is being presented, so it's hard to say definitively that these are staged protests, I would need rock solid, unbiased proof.
 
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