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Trump has a path to victory: it's voter suppression

uptower

uptower

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Trump Has A Path To Victory. It's Voter Suppression.

This article discusses a whole suite of dirty tricks, A sample, bold by me:

The problem with mail-in voting is not fraudulent votes from Bolivia. You don’t get ballots from Bolivia. You don’t get people in a basement filling out 700 ballots. It’s easy to catch those guys. Some people tried it a couple times, they get nailed, you go to jail for five years. It doesn’t happen. It’s been studied to death.

One in 10 voters who asked for a mail-in ballot and never get them. One in 10 ballots that are mailed in, are never counted. They’re rejected, they’re challenged and the vote doesn’t get counted. They get challenged for goofy things. They didn’t properly fill in a bubble. They didn’t like your signature. Postage due is a big one. If you put one stamp on it, you just lost your vote, you need two. It doesn’t say that, but you better put on the second stamp. 100,000 voters in '16, lost their vote for postage due.
Click to expand...

100,000 voters in 2016, lost their vote for postage due. Trump won by 77,000.

So there's:

gerrymandering
closing polling stations
New ID laws
Special IDs for students
demanding ballots are notarized
multiple witnesses (during coronavirus)
purging rolls and 'de-registering'
'challenging' ballots (the actual voter fraud)
selectively refusing absentee ballots
slowing the postal service

And of course the war on mail-in. You mail in your registration, you do your drivers licence by mail, the treasury mailed everyone a $1,200 check; the president and half his cabinet and family and half a dozen entire states vote by mail. But suddenly that's not 'safe' to do anymore.

Suppressing the vote was instrumental in 2016. There were other things: misinformation, a poorly run Clinton campaign, Vladimir Putin, sure. But this time Trump is so far behind that suppression has to be ramped up on several fronts to make up the difference.
 
100,000 voters in 2016, lost their vote for postage due.


So you admit that voting by mail is not a good way for voting to occur!
Why then are people pushing for this flawed method?
 
uptower said:
Trump Has A Path To Victory. It's Voter Suppression.

This article discusses a whole suite of dirty tricks, A sample, bold by me:



100,000 voters in 2016, lost their vote for postage due. Trump won by 77,000.

So there's:

gerrymandering
closing polling stations
New ID laws
Special IDs for students
demanding ballots are notarized
multiple witnesses (during coronavirus)
purging rolls and 'de-registering'
'challenging' ballots (the actual voter fraud)
selectively refusing absentee ballots
slowing the postal service

And of course the war on mail-in. You mail in your registration, you do your drivers licence by mail, the treasury mailed everyone a $1,200 check; the president and half his cabinet and family and half a dozen entire states vote by mail. But suddenly that's not 'safe' to do anymore.

Suppressing the vote was instrumental in 2016. There were other things: misinformation, a poorly run Clinton campaign, Vladimir Putin, sure. But this time Trump is so far behind that suppression has to be ramped up on several fronts to make up the difference.
Click to expand...
LOL, coming up with excuses already, eh?
 
It's real easy to vote. Just takes a little effort on your part.

First get registered! It's not hard to do. Find out what you need in your state to vote and follow the
guidelines. Do your research before getting in the voters booth so you know who to vote for and what
other issues may be voted on. Show up to vote on election day.

Like anything worth doing this takes a little effort but well worth the time spent.
 
uptower said:
Trump Has A Path To Victory. It's Voter Suppression.

This article discusses a whole suite of dirty tricks, A sample, bold by me:



100,000 voters in 2016, lost their vote for postage due. Trump won by 77,000.

So there's:

gerrymandering
closing polling stations
New ID laws
Special IDs for students
demanding ballots are notarized
multiple witnesses (during coronavirus)
purging rolls and 'de-registering'
'challenging' ballots (the actual voter fraud)
selectively refusing absentee ballots
slowing the postal service

And of course the war on mail-in. You mail in your registration, you do your drivers licence by mail, the treasury mailed everyone a $1,200 check; the president and half his cabinet and family and half a dozen entire states vote by mail. But suddenly that's not 'safe' to do anymore.

Suppressing the vote was instrumental in 2016. There were other things: misinformation, a poorly run Clinton campaign, Vladimir Putin, sure. But this time Trump is so far behind that suppression has to be ramped up on several fronts to make up the difference.
Click to expand...

So you’re saying Clinton voters didn’t know how to put stamps on an envelope and that’s voter suppression?

LOLOLOLOL
 
Common Sense 1 said:
100,000 voters in 2016, lost their vote for postage due.


So you admit that voting by mail is not a good way for voting to occur!
Why then are people pushing for this flawed method?
Click to expand...

Perhaps you misunderstood. The post office did not refuse to mail them. They were delivered. Election officials refused to count them because of the value of the stamp. No skin off their nose, but that was the petty excuse used to reject them: Republicans will use almost anything. They'll use that for mail ins and signatures or tick boxes or the strength of the ink on an an in-person vote; literally any excuse they can not to count them.

These officials are effectively breaking the law but know the court cases will take months or years and the election will be decided by then.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
So you’re saying Clinton voters didn’t know how to put stamps on an envelope and that’s voter suppression?

LOLOLOLOL
Click to expand...

I'm saying they should have been counted anyway despite the value of the stamp. F*** yeah.
 
Bullseye said:
LOL, coming up with excuses already, eh?
Click to expand...

It's been going on for years, don't pretend it's anything new.

Trump's making excuses, such as other countries interfering with mail-in ballots or people committing personal voter fraud that have no basis in fact. These above are actually happening and they're called reasons.
 
uptower said:
It's been going on for years, don't pretend it's anything new.

Trump's making excuses, such as other countries interfering with mail-in ballots or people committing personal voter fraud that have no basis in fact. These above are actually happening and they're called reasons.
Click to expand...
Sure. :roll:
 
uptower said:
...100,000 voters in 2016, lost their vote for postage due. Trump won by 77,000.

...Suppressing the vote was instrumental in 2016. There were other things: misinformation, a poorly run Clinton campaign, Vladimir Putin, sure. But this time Trump is so far behind that suppression has to be ramped up on several fronts to make up the difference.
Click to expand...

uptower said:
Perhaps you misunderstood. The post office did not refuse to mail them. They were delivered. Election officials refused to count them because of the value of the stamp. No skin off their nose, but that was the petty excuse used to reject them: Republicans will use almost anything. They'll use that for mail ins and signatures or tick boxes or the strength of the ink on an an in-person vote; literally any excuse they can not to count them.

These officials are effectively breaking the law but know the court cases will take months or years and the election will be decided by then.
Click to expand...

I did not see a link in the article you cited showing that the MIT study indicated those votes not counted were all Democrat votes. So what would make anyone assume they were mostly, much less ALL votes for Hillary Clinton?

In fact it was a whole lot of opinions citing sources, with very little (basically none) in the way of links and therefore immediately accessible the reader could review for themselves.

I am left to recall post's I've made which argued how problematic mail-in ballots are. I don't recall them being linked solely (if at all) to one Party or the other.
 
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I notice that most of the items on the list are actually the responsibility of states and local officials; purging rolls, locations of polling places, drawing election districts, etc - all done by states.
 
Bullseye said:
LOL, coming up with excuses already, eh?
Click to expand...

Here is the question. You have a 30 million dollar winning lottery ticket. Are you going to mail it to the lottery board or deliver it in person?
 
uptower said:
Trump Has A Path To Victory. It's Voter Suppression.

This article discusses a whole suite of dirty tricks, A sample, bold by me:



100,000 voters in 2016, lost their vote for postage due. Trump won by 77,000.

So there's:

gerrymandering
closing polling stations
New ID laws
Special IDs for students
demanding ballots are notarized
multiple witnesses (during coronavirus)
purging rolls and 'de-registering'
'challenging' ballots (the actual voter fraud)
selectively refusing absentee ballots
slowing the postal service

And of course the war on mail-in. You mail in your registration, you do your drivers licence by mail, the treasury mailed everyone a $1,200 check; the president and half his cabinet and family and half a dozen entire states vote by mail. But suddenly that's not 'safe' to do anymore.

Suppressing the vote was instrumental in 2016. There were other things: misinformation, a poorly run Clinton campaign, Vladimir Putin, sure. But this time Trump is so far behind that suppression has to be ramped up on several fronts to make up the difference.
Click to expand...
Yes, these things do weigh on me. In a clean election, Trump is toast. But ad in Covid and everything in your post, and anything can happen.

With Dems doing just over 51 percent by mail, and Repubs doing just 20% by mail, I'm already preparing for a scenario where Trump gets the lead on election nite, then refuses to accept the loss that occurs over the ensuing days or weeks as the mail-in (majority Dem) get fully counted. Of course, he & the GOP will have everything tied-up in court, while he does all kinds of craziness in office and on the air.

He & the GOP will not relinquish power easily, that's for sure!
 
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Bullseye said:
I notice that most of the items on the list are actually the responsibility of states and local officials; purging rolls, locations of polling places, drawing election districts, etc - all done by states.
Click to expand...

Usually by red states with large black populations.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I did not see a link in the article you cited showing that the MIT study indicated those votes not counted were all Democrat votes. So what would make anyone assume they were mostly, much less ALL votes for Hillary Clinton?
Click to expand...

Yeah I could have been clearer: I was comparing the numbers for perspective. We don't know who those votes were for, in fact they may have all been in one state which makes them statistically less significant.

But for perspective if a national election can be won with such razor thin margins then it is incumbent on state election officials to count every damn vote and not make excuses. Unless of course they don't want to count them...
 
Chomsky said:
Yes, these things do weigh on me. In a clean election, Trump is toast. But ad in Covid and everything in your post, and anything can happen.

With Dems doing just over 51 percent by mail, and Repubs doing just 20% by mail, I'm already preparing for a scenario where Trump gets the lead on election nite, then refuses to accept the loss that occurs over the ensuing days or weeks as the mail-in (majority Dem) get fully counted. Of course, he & the GOP will have everything tied-up in court, while he does all kinds of craziness in office and on the air.

He & the GOP will not relinquish power easily, that's for sure!
Click to expand...

A lot of the mail-ins are early voters...the ballots won't come in all at once. So I think it's still doable.

And too, a lot of states are extending their mail in deadlines because of Covid...and Trump's interference with the mail. So if the vote count comes in late he only has himself to blame.
 
TurtleDude said:
Here is the question. You have a 30 million dollar winning lottery ticket. Are you going to mail it to the lottery board or deliver it in person?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'd go in person for 30 million bucks because it has more impact on me than an election.

Yet it's a poor comparison because the motives of the lottery ticket holder/voter aren't the issue: the problem might be the lottery board. Doesn't much matter whether you mail it or take it in person if you can't trust the board to honor it.

Yes some people are happy to send their ballot by mail because they trust the mail service and the commission to do the right thing. Especially in safe districts I'm sure. Others would prefer (even during a pandemic) to do it themselves, but they're still only cutting out the postal service and still must rely on the board to do the right thing.

The problem here is the election boards may well do the wrong thing regardless and refuse to count someone's vote - mail in or in person - for whatever petty excuse they can muster.

So the analogy with the lottery board is, if you cannot trust the board to honor your winning ticket why even bother buying one? People will stop buying tickets. Then the board will sell fewer tickets, confident in the knowledge it is less likely to have to share the spoils. I believe this is the intention with those actively engaged in voter suppression.
 
uptower said:
Yeah I could have been clearer: I was comparing the numbers for perspective. We don't know who those votes were for, in fact they may have all been in one state which makes them statistically less significant.

But for perspective if a national election can be won with such razor thin margins then it is incumbent on state election officials to count every damn vote and not make excuses. Unless of course they don't want to count them...
Click to expand...

Well, thanks for re-iterating one of the MANY problems I have already pointed out in other threads with past efforts at mail-on voting...even when they were not "mandated" or being pushed for more people to do.

I started a thread on it...

Captain Adverse said:
We keep hearing claims that mail-in voting for the next election is the best method of dealing with both Covid-19 concerns, and to get out the popular vote.

Yet Mail-in voting IS subject to all sorts of fraud and error despite nay-sayer's claiming otherwise...
Click to expand...

Even without allegations of intentional fraud (as I have also pointed out) mail-in voting has MANY problems under normal circumstances.

How much worse, and of even more questionable value, is pushing to mandate massive efforts at 100% mail-in voting?
 
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Moot said:
A lot of the mail-ins are early voters...the ballots won't come in all at once. So I think it's still doable.

And too, a lot of states are extending their mail in deadlines because of Covid...and Trump's interference with the mail. So if the vote count comes in late he only has himself to blame.
Click to expand...
Well, I do hope you are right.

I've read an article that extrapolates Dems could lose up to 2% of the vote difference due to the Covid mail-in situation. Here it is in the thread I started:

DP
 
Trump taking away people's right to vote can backfire too.

People might just go out and make every effort to cast their votes, no matter what they have to do or how long they have to wait in line.
 
Bullseye said:
I notice that most of the items on the list are actually the responsibility of states and local officials; purging rolls, locations of polling places, drawing election districts, etc - all done by states.
Click to expand...

Yes and research has demonstrated these suppression techniques are done more heavily in states where the legislature and electoral commissions are controlled by Republicans. So it's still the republicans working toward a common goal - restricting the vote.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Well, thanks for re-iterating one of the MANY problems I have already pointed out in other threads with past efforts at mail-on voting...even when they were not "mandated" or being pushed for more people to do.

I started a thread on it...



Even without allegations of intentional fraud (as I have also pointed out) mail-in voting has MANY problems under normal circumstances.

How much worse, and of even more questionable value, is pushing to mandate massive efforts at 100% mail-in voting?
Click to expand...

There's already a system in place to deal with electoral boards that commit fraudulent counting, ballot stuffing, 'losing' ballots and so on. Yes with expanded absentee ballot we may well see more cases, but probably the same percentage. And they'll be caught and punished.
 
Bullseye said:
I notice that most of the items on the list are actually the responsibility of states and local officials; purging rolls, locations of polling places, drawing election districts, etc - all done by states.
Click to expand...

Moot said:
Usually by red states with large black populations.
Click to expand...

You are both correct.
 
uptower said:
There's already a system in place to deal with electoral boards that commit fraudulent counting, ballot stuffing, 'losing' ballots and so on. Yes with expanded absentee ballot we may well see more cases, but probably the same percentage. And they'll be caught and punished.
Click to expand...

Well we are going to have to agree to disagree.

IMO this is going to be a nightmare. Not only with issues of validation, fraud, lost ballots, etc., but with a major delay in determining the winner.

Not to mention the very real possibility of either Trump or Biden challenging the results as inaccurate...much like Bush v. Gore back in 2000.
 
Common Sense 1 said:
100,000 voters in 2016, lost their vote for postage due.


So you admit that voting by mail is not a good way for voting to occur!
Why then are people pushing for this flawed method?
Click to expand...

Mark them postage paid as other countries do.
 
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