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Frederick Douglas Statue Ripped down

Hatuey said:
The statues weren't put up by a whole system of representative government. Lmao, 60-80% were put up literally through lobbying, and the decree of confederacy sympathizers looking to suppress the civil rights movement.
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That's an interesting claim. So they weren't put up through representative government, they were put up through a government that happened to be a representative government using money it got from individuals, which is unlike the monies that it gets from individuals, which is how it funds its usual operations, ergo, not representative, because magic.

Did the Iraqis need permission from government officials to topple statues of Saddam? Why do you ask US citizens to respect a government that fought theirs?
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Iraqi's didn't have a representative government to work through, or, in fact, at that point, any government to work through. But you tell me: How did de-Baathification go?



Here, we have a representative government that you can work through if you want to change or destroy portions of public (or even under certain circumstances private) property. Not going through such channels is (and should be) illegal. "I"m Offended Ergo I Get To Destroy Other People's Stuff" isn't any more legitimate an argument for someone who wants to destroy a statue than it is for someone upset at civil rights who wants to burn a church.
 
gdgyva said:
Rochester, N.Y. — A statue of abolitionist Frederick Douglass was ripped from its base in Rochester on the anniversary of one of his most famous speeches, delivered in the city in 1852. Police said the statue was taken on Sunday from Maplewood Park, a site along the Underground Railroad where Douglass and Harriet Tubman helped shuttle slaves to freedom.


No arrests have been made. In a Monday morning tweet, President Trump blamed "anarchists" for the incident.

The statue was found at the brink of the Genesee River gorge about 50 feet from its pedestal, police said. There was damage to the base and a finger.

Frederick Douglass statue in Rochester, NY ripped from base - CBS News

and i wont be surprised when MLK statues come next
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Well, hey, no one ever accused the BLM crowd of intelligence or historical literacy.....
 
gdgyva said:
Rochester, N.Y. — A statue of abolitionist Frederick Douglass was ripped from its base in Rochester on the anniversary of one of his most famous speeches, delivered in the city in 1852. Police said the statue was taken on Sunday from Maplewood Park, a site along the Underground Railroad where Douglass and Harriet Tubman helped shuttle slaves to freedom.


No arrests have been made. In a Monday morning tweet, President Trump blamed "anarchists" for the incident.

The statue was found at the brink of the Genesee River gorge about 50 feet from its pedestal, police said. There was damage to the base and a finger.

Frederick Douglass statue in Rochester, NY ripped from base - CBS News

and i wont be surprised when MLK statues come next
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Apparently MLK is in line just behind the elk statue in Portland, OR.
 
Seems clear to me this was done by Trump supporters.
 
They won't stop at statues, that is just the foreplay. I want to put up a statue of Biden, not label it, and see how long it stays up =)
 
gdgyva said:
Rochester, N.Y. — A statue of abolitionist Frederick Douglass was ripped from its base in Rochester on the anniversary of one of his most famous speeches, delivered in the city in 1852. Police said the statue was taken on Sunday from Maplewood Park, a site along the Underground Railroad where Douglass and Harriet Tubman helped shuttle slaves to freedom.


No arrests have been made. In a Monday morning tweet, President Trump blamed "anarchists" for the incident.

The statue was found at the brink of the Genesee River gorge about 50 feet from its pedestal, police said. There was damage to the base and a finger.

Frederick Douglass statue in Rochester, NY ripped from base - CBS News

and i wont be surprised when MLK statues come next
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You are thinking BLM tore down a statue to Frederick Douglas? :lol:
 
cpwill said:
That's an interesting claim. So they weren't put up through representative government, they were put up through a government that happened to be a representative government using money it got from individuals, which is unlike the monies that it gets from individuals, which is how it funds its usual operations, ergo, not representative, because magic.
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I'm opposed to vandalism to remove these statues. It's IMO better for those opposed and the community to build the consensus necessary to get them taken down. However, the statues in the south largely went up when blacks could not vote and so had no way to influence their "representative" government, because Jim Crow laws. Second, it's now pretty common in the South for state governments to have brand new laws taking the ability of local governments to take down those 'historic' statues, and put the decisions in the hands of unelected boards or panels. That's what Tennessee did.

In the case of NBF in Memphis, the city tried for years to move the statue, and the state didn't care. Turns out that the city worked around the law, "sold" the park to a private entity, and about a minute later the private entity removed the statue not being covered by the law. That was a good solution, but if that didn't work and the residents finally got fed up and took the statue down, I would object in principle but not in practice since the 'peaceful' option had been cut off from them. And that they worked for years through the system would have given such an action legitimacy IMO, although not from the legal ramifications of vandalism if caught.
 
Luce said:
You are thinking BLM tore down a statue to Frederick Douglas? :lol:
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Well, y'know, anything that happens in the vicinity of the protests that is bad is the fault of every person they choose to associate with BLM and "the left" more generally (aka, non-Trumpists).*

Them's the rules.


___________________
*Unless the bad thing happens to someone associated with BLM or "the left", and was done by a government agent or one of these DHS-contracted mercenaries they've sent in. Then it's the righteous work of God, done by Trump himself.
 
Hatuey said:
So yes. That is what you're saying. The US government should be fair to the slave owners who started a war against the US government, just as it should would be to MLK. No reason employees of the US government cant identify with the views and values of the government they represent fought against, and should actually work and use tax payer funding to ensure they are perpetually glorify the views of the enemy government, like the current system.


I'm telling you. The Confederacy should have given PR agencies a shot. Though people didn't really have those in the 1860s. Some proto-agencies existed. Traveling artists with small studios that could do artwork for signs and stuff, they left the messaging to the owners. People sort of preferred their own slogans so most work was custom and local.

Nothing like the stuff you're doing though.

Wookies > Trekkies
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Wow, I read through all of that just to see that you lack the spine for intellectually honest debate.

Well at least you're consistent. I'll give you that.
 
MaryP said:
Doesn't fit with the general protest message, does it? Could it be a group that doesn't like uppity blacks? Or is getting retaliation for tearing down statues of white heroes?
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They're all illegally tearing down state property.

Despite how twister the "general protest" message was to begin with.

It's still someone, doing something illegal.
 
Deuce said:
Seems clear to me this was done by Trump supporters.
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Seems clear to me that all anti-Trumpers are pedophiles.

What, can I not play by these same idiotic rules that you so willingly employ?
 
gdgyva said:
Rochester, N.Y. — A statue of abolitionist Frederick Douglass was ripped from its base in Rochester on the anniversary of one of his most famous speeches, delivered in the city in 1852. Police said the statue was taken on Sunday from Maplewood Park, a site along the Underground Railroad where Douglass and Harriet Tubman helped shuttle slaves to freedom.


No arrests have been made. In a Monday morning tweet, President Trump blamed "anarchists" for the incident.

The statue was found at the brink of the Genesee River gorge about 50 feet from its pedestal, police said. There was damage to the base and a finger.

Frederick Douglass statue in Rochester, NY ripped from base - CBS News

and i wont be surprised when MLK statues come next
Click to expand...

You can't fix stupid.
 
Mr Person said:
Well, y'know, anything that happens in the vicinity of the protests that is bad is the fault of every person they choose to associate with BLM and "the left" more generally (aka, non-Trumpists).*

Them's the rules.


___________________
*Unless the bad thing happens to someone associated with BLM or "the left", and was done by a government agent or one of these DHS-contracted mercenaries they've sent in. Then it's the righteous work of God, done by Trump himself.
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You know, it's pretty sad when you inadvertently point out just how weak and pathetic your own reasoning actually is. Especially when you do it in a rather limp attempt at insulting another group, who's only fault was not agreeing with your own narrow world view..
 
JasperL said:
I'm opposed to vandalism to remove these statues. It's IMO better for those opposed and the community to build the consensus necessary to get them taken down. However, the statues in the south largely went up when blacks could not vote and so had no way to influence their "representative" government, because Jim Crow laws. Second, it's now pretty common in the South for state governments to have brand new laws taking the ability of local governments to take down those 'historic' statues, and put the decisions in the hands of unelected boards or panels. That's what Tennessee did.

In the case of NBF in Memphis, the city tried for years to move the statue, and the state didn't care. Turns out that the city worked around the law, "sold" the park to a private entity, and about a minute later the private entity removed the statue not being covered by the law. That was a good solution, but if that didn't work and the residents finally got fed up and took the statue down, I would object in principle but not in practice since the 'peaceful' option had been cut off from them. And that they worked for years through the system would have given such an action legitimacy IMO, although not from the legal ramifications of vandalism if caught.
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:) Fascinating. Tell me more about how local governance is best suited to making the decisions that reflect the kind of community its people want to live in, and how centralizing political questions can allow abusive larger majorities to override vulnerable minority issues :)
 
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