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Thread: Trump's DHS Starts to Import 85,000 H-1B Graduate Gig Workers

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    Re: Trump's DHS Starts to Import 85,000 H-1B Graduate Gig Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    another reason for a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage.
    Nonsense - it is precisely the fact that US employers now pay more for (low skilled) labor than many other nations do which encourages more immigration (legal or not). The idea that fewer foreign nationals would find working the US (legally or not) to be desireable if only we raised the pay/benefits of all US low skilled work is, perhaps, the most moronic suggestion that I have ever heard/read.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Trump's DHS Starts to Import 85,000 H-1B Graduate Gig Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Nonsense - it is precisely the fact that US employers now pay more for (low skilled) labor than many other nations do which encourages more immigration (legal or not). The idea that fewer foreign nationals would find working the US (legally or not) to be desirable if only we raised the pay/benefits of all US low skilled work is, perhaps, the most moronic suggestion that I have ever heard/read.
    Not saying much since you appeal to ignorance of the whole and entire concept of economics.

    Higher paid labor pays more in taxes and creates more in demand.

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    Re: Trump's DHS Starts to Import 85,000 H-1B Graduate Gig Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    It is not bull**** in the discussion before us because we are not talking about "most immigrants."

    The issue is specifically H1B visas. I posted the requirements and the link in post #11.

    We are talking about highly educated, and/or highly experienced technicians. NOT "maids, construction workers, etc."



    Then address the alleged abuse, not the program itself. I'd have no problem with that.

    Meanwhile my points stand.
    We are talking about far more jobs than those (bolded above).

    Along with specialized workers, the H1B visa also applies to fashion models and Department of Defense cooperative research and development project workers. First Lady Melania Trump is just one example of a fashion model who entered the US through an H1B visa and later became a US citizen.
    Since HIB visa holders can (and normally do) bring in family members on a proirity basis they too join the US workforce.

    To do so, the dependent family members (spouse and unmarried children under 21 years of age) must complete an H4 visa application which can be done at the same time as the H1B visa application, or after the H1B visa has already left to the US.

    H4 visa holders can go to school, open bank accounts, get a driver’s license and even receive a social security number. H4 visa holders can also legally work while in the US after applying for an Employment Authorization Document while on the H4 visa. However, once the H1B visa holder’s visa expires, all of the dependent family members will have to return to their home country along with the H1B visa holder.
    Do you supposed that these H4 visa holders simply self-deport after they turn 21? I seriously doubt that.

    COMPLETE guide to the H1B visa & H1B visa application process [2020]
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Trump's DHS Starts to Import 85,000 H-1B Graduate Gig Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    We are talking about far more jobs than those (bolded above).



    Since HIB visa holders can (and normally do) bring in family members on a proirity basis they too join the US workforce.



    Do you supposed that these H4 visa holders simply self-deport after they turn 21? I seriously doubt that.

    COMPLETE guide to the H1B visa & H1B visa application process [2020]
    Wow, are you arguing that we have been allowing too many "fashion models" into the country? Really?

    As for "defense cooperative research and development project workers"...do you think this equates to ditch diggers, maids, etc.?

    Where did the H4 worker issue come from? I believe the article was addressing H1B workers.

    I'm sorry, but deflections are never a good tactic. You're better than that.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: Trump's DHS Starts to Import 85,000 H-1B Graduate Gig Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Only someone who thought Trump was against all forms of Immigration could possibly believe that this would be anti-American.

    I am all for immigration of the worlds best and brightest, regardless of where they can be found. Viral outbreak or not.

    So is Trump. The problem he's had with immigration concerns mass migration which floods the nation with mostly unskilled workers who then compete with Americans for entry level work.

    But he has always pushed for the US to seek the kind of immigrants we need to keep America first in business, technology, and other sciences.

    If Americans want to remain competitive in the job market, then IMO they need to stop going into student loan debt taking underwater basket weaving non-science, non-tech degrees.

    IMO it is only those with an entitled mental outlook who seem to think that simply because they were born here that they are entitled to preference in hiring, regardless of the fact they lack both the skills and motivation to get and keep a job.

    Maryland needs crab pickers.

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    Re: Trump's DHS Starts to Import 85,000 H-1B Graduate Gig Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Wow, are you arguing that we have been allowing too many "fashion models" into the country? Really?

    As for "defense cooperative research and development project workers"...do you think this equates to ditch diggers, maids, etc.?

    Where did the H4 worker issue come from? I believe the article was addressing H1B workers.

    I'm sorry, but deflections are never a good tactic. You're better than that.
    H4 visas are a direct result of HIB visas. Fashion model was one example given of a "specialized skill". What "advanced degree" is required for a fashion model? You made the claim that H1B visas required an "advanced degree" which they do not - they require a "specialized skill" and/or (usually 12 years of) experience.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Trump's DHS Starts to Import 85,000 H-1B Graduate Gig Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    H4 visas are a direct result of HIB visas. Fashion model was one example given of a "specialized skill". What "advanced degree" is required for a fashion model? You made the claim that H1B visas required an "advanced degree" which they do not - they require a "specialized skill" and/or (usually 12 years of) experience.


    Actually I said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    What are H1B visas?

    H-1B Specialty Occupations, DOD Cooperative Research and Development Project Workers, and Fashion Models | USCIS

    So we are not talking maids, waiters, ditch-diggers, etc....

    People who (IMHO) most likely would not be recruited if we had more qualified American worker's seeking those fields.

    Nor did I list "fashion models" because that group needs no explanation. The fashion industry is world-wide, and models will be working everywhere for that purpose. It is a specialized skill with lots of movement from place to place.

    I also said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    It is not bull**** in the discussion before us because we are not talking about "most immigrants."

    The issue is specifically H1B visas. I posted the requirements and the link in post #11.

    We are talking about highly educated, and/or highly experienced technicians. NOT "maids, construction workers, etc."
    The H1B lists three categories. All three (including "fashion model") list specialized skills to meet specialized needs.

    We are NOT talking about jobs literally any American, unskilled but willing, would automatically qualify for.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: Trump's DHS Starts to Import 85,000 H-1B Graduate Gig Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post


    Actually I said:




    Nor did I list "fashion models" because that group needs no explanation. The fashion industry is world-wide, and models will be working everywhere for that purpose. It is a specialized skill with lots of movement from place to place.

    I also said:



    The H1B lists three categories. All three (including "fashion model") list specialized skills to meet specialized needs.

    We are NOT talking about jobs literally any American, unskilled but willing, would automatically qualify for.
    I agree, but we are talking about a federal program to supply US "job creators" with "specialized" foreign workers while having no federal program to specifically address getting more US to citizens acquire those "specialized" skills. Like perhaps offering tax credits for US "job creators" to help pay to train US workers via tuition reimbursement programs.

    When the demand for a worker with a "specialized" (or any) skill increases (exceeds the supply of workers currently having that skill) that normally causes the pay/benefits of that job (skilled position) to increase, thereby making acquiring that skill have an economic incentive over acquiring other skills. When that pressure (to raise wages) is lifted by a government immigration program it simply allows "job creators" to keep the pay low and to use foreign workers to fill those "specialized" positions.

    My initial reply tried to make that point clear - no matter what category of US labor (lower skilled or higher skilled) happens to be involved.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Trump's DHS Starts to Import 85,000 H-1B Graduate Gig Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I agree, but we are talking about a federal program to supply US "job creators" with "specialized" foreign workers while having no federal program to specifically address getting more US to citizens acquire those "specialized" skills. Like perhaps offering tax credits for US "job creators" to help pay to train US workers via tuition reimbursement programs.

    When the demand for a worker with a "specialized" (or any) skill increases (exceeds the supply of workers currently having that skill) that normally causes the pay/benefits of that job (skilled position) to increase, thereby making acquiring that skill have an economic incentive over acquiring other skills. When that pressure (to raise wages) is lifted by a government immigration program it simply allows "job creators" to keep the pay low and to use foreign workers to fill those "specialized" positions.

    My initial reply tried to make that point clear - no matter what category of US labor (lower skilled or higher skilled) happens to be involved.
    I agree, and have already said elsewhere, that we need valid training and initial experience programs for trade skills, technical skills, and the hard sciences. We've got too many "degrees" in underwater basket-weaving IMHO.

    If we are going to fund anything in the way of either direct grants or student loans/federal scholarships, it should be for factually accredited programs and job placement priority in those same jobs the HIB program is outsourcing.

    Meanwhile, we should also be pushing a greater emphasis on both practical and hard science programs in colleges and Universities for the same reasons and with the same oversight.

    IMO we seriously have too many "online degree" programs that really don't teach or prepare people for the workplace. IMO they look good on paper, but when the rubber meets the road? Not so much.

    Even so, I believe in recruiting the best and brightest from all around the world. People who are willing to become AMERICAN's. Assimilate to our language and culture, while not giving up their own religions or personal cultural expressions.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 03-29-20 at 02:01 PM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: Trump's DHS Starts to Import 85,000 H-1B Graduate Gig Workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Only someone who thought Trump was against all forms of Immigration could possibly believe that this would be anti-American.

    I am all for immigration of the worlds best and brightest, regardless of where they can be found. Viral outbreak or not.

    So is Trump. The problem he's had with immigration concerns mass migration which floods the nation with mostly unskilled workers who then compete with Americans for entry level work.

    But he has always pushed for the US to seek the kind of immigrants we need to keep America first in business, technology, and other sciences.

    If Americans want to remain competitive in the job market, then IMO they need to stop going into student loan debt taking underwater basket weaving non-science, non-tech degrees.

    IMO it is only those with an entitled mental outlook who seem to think that simply because they were born here that they are entitled to preference in hiring, regardless of the fact they lack both the skills and motivation to get and keep a job.

    What a pile of excuses we have here. Trump campaigned on limiting H1-B visas, and instead working to fill those slots with Americans.

    You working with a fictitious narrative when you blame it all on millenials with useless degrees; most companies have been firing their American tech workers, in order to replace them with foreign H1-B holders. We've all heard the stories of Disney and Microsoft ordering tech workers to train the foreign tech workers who will be taking their jobs from them.

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