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Thread: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights During Coronavirus Emergency

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    Re: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights During Coronavirus Emergency

    The answer is "hell no!"
    Coronavirus still poses a low risk to the general public in the US.""If you are a healthy young person, there is no reason if you want to go on a cruise ship, go on a cruise ship." "If you have tested negative for covid-19, there is no reason to wear a mask." Dr. Anthony Fauci, Director of NIAID

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    Re: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights During Coronavirus Emergency

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The answer is "hell no!"
    Mr. Trump just wants to show how "Lincolnesque" he is.
    Summary of 20/05/28 COVID-19 (Deaths/Cases) Mortality Statistics
    World (357,981/5,814,706) 6.16% / USA (102,116/1,746,311) 5.85% / Canada (6,765/87,519) 7.73%
    Running update of the COVID-19 data at Daily Statistical Summary of COVID-19

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    Re: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights During Coronavirus Emergency

    Congress has already suspended the 4th Amendment and Habeas Corpus, years ago. What more do they want?

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    Re: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights During Coronavirus Emergency

    Quote Originally Posted by TU Curmudgeon View Post
    From Rolling Stone

    DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights During Coronavirus Emergency

    The Trump Department of Justice has asked Congress to craft legislation allowing chief judges to indefinitely hold people without trial and suspend other constitutionally-protected rights during coronavirus and other emergencies, according to a report by Politico’s Betsy Woodruff Swan.

    While the asks from the Department of Justice will likely not come to fruition with a Democratically-controlled House of Representatives, they demonstrate how much this White House has a frightening disregard for rights enumerated in the Constitution.

    The DOJ has requested Congress allow any chief judge of a district court to pause court proceedings “whenever the district court is fully or partially closed by virtue of any natural disaster, civil disobedience, or other emergency situation,” according to draft language obtained by Politico. This would be applicable to “any statutes or rules of procedure otherwise affecting pre-arrest, post-arrest, pre-trial, trial, and post-trial procedures in criminal and juvenile proceedings and all civil processes and proceedings.” They justify this by saying currently judges can pause judicial proceedings in an emergency but that new legislation would allow them to apply it “in a consistent manner.”

    But the Constitution grants citizens habeas corpus which gives arrestees the right to appear in front of a judge and ask to be released before trial. Enacting legislation like the DOJ wants would essentially suspend habeas corpus indefinitely until the emergency ended. Further, DOJ asked Congress to suspend the statute of limitations on criminal investigations and civil proceedings during the emergency until a year after it ended.

    COMMENT:-

    Of course, everything that you read in "Rolling Stone" is a complete lie - right?

    PS - If that legislation were to be passed, then the courts could not overturn it because the courts would be closed.
    Looks to me like you are far too late.

    You said:

    "currently judges can pause judicial proceedings in an emergency"

    But this is currently the law.

    The martial law concept in the United States is closely tied with the right of habeas corpus, which is, in essence, the right to a hearing on lawful imprisonment, or more broadly, the supervision of law enforcement by the judiciary. The ability to suspend habeas corpus is related to the imposition of martial law.[1] Article 1, Section 9 of the US Constitution states, "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it." There have been many instances of the use of the military within the borders of the United States, such as during the Whiskey Rebellion and in the South during the Civil Rights Movement, but these acts are not tantamount to a declaration of martial law. The distinction must be made as clear as that between martial law and military justice: deployment of troops does not necessarily mean that the civil courts cannot function, and that is one of the keys, as the Supreme Court noted, to martial law.

    In United States law, martial law is limited by several court decisions that were handed down between the American Civil War and World War II. In 1878, Congress passed the Posse Comitatus Act, which forbids U.S. military involvement in domestic law enforcement without congressional approval.

    Throughout United States history are several examples of the imposition of martial law, aside from that during the Civil War.
    Martial law in the United States - Wikipedia
    The criticism of Trump to say it mildly is not relevant. The man performs his office magnificently. Take a racer at the 500 Indy race. The driver may have womanized. May have boozed and gambled. May have never voted. But man can that driver race.
    Trump is like the winner of the Indy 500.

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    Re: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights During Coronavirus Emergency

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonglow View Post
    Barr has yet again proven he is a tyrants best right hand man..
    Thanks for the laugh. I am serious, that is prime comedy.
    The criticism of Trump to say it mildly is not relevant. The man performs his office magnificently. Take a racer at the 500 Indy race. The driver may have womanized. May have boozed and gambled. May have never voted. But man can that driver race.
    Trump is like the winner of the Indy 500.

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    Re: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights During Coronavirus Emergency

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertinfremont View Post
    Looks to me like you are far too late.

    You said:

    "currently judges can pause judicial proceedings in an emergency"

    But this is currently the law.



    Martial law in the United States - Wikipedia
    That is the case IF "Martial Law" has been declared - this does not apply.

    It is also the case if "The Executive Branch" tells a specific case can not be proceeded with due to "National Security Reasons" (and there is no obligation on the Executive Branch to detail what the "National Security Reasons" are) - this also does not apply.

    What Mr. Trump wanted was to be able to jail anyone for any reason and without having to tell anyone why they had jailed that person or running any chance that the courts would order the person released because they were being jailed without "due cause".
    Summary of 20/05/28 COVID-19 (Deaths/Cases) Mortality Statistics
    World (357,981/5,814,706) 6.16% / USA (102,116/1,746,311) 5.85% / Canada (6,765/87,519) 7.73%
    Running update of the COVID-19 data at Daily Statistical Summary of COVID-19

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    Re: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights During Coronavirus Emergency

    Quote Originally Posted by TU Curmudgeon View Post
    That is the case IF "Martial Law" has been declared - this does not apply.

    It is also the case if "The Executive Branch" tells a specific case can not be proceeded with due to "National Security Reasons" (and there is no obligation on the Executive Branch to detail what the "National Security Reasons" are) - this also does not apply.

    What Mr. Trump wanted was to be able to jail anyone for any reason and without having to tell anyone why they had jailed that person or running any chance that the courts would order the person released because they were being jailed without "due cause".
    Not without martial law sir.
    The criticism of Trump to say it mildly is not relevant. The man performs his office magnificently. Take a racer at the 500 Indy race. The driver may have womanized. May have boozed and gambled. May have never voted. But man can that driver race.
    Trump is like the winner of the Indy 500.

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    Re: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights During Coronavirus Emergency

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertinfremont View Post
    Thanks for the laugh. I am serious, that is prime comedy.
    You should laugh your way back in history to the Iran-Contra affair and discover Barr's role in that fiasco. That would require informing yourself, so it probably won't happen.

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    Re: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights During Coronavirus Emergency

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertinfremont View Post
    Not without martial law sir.
    Indeed, but that is the situation that Mr. Trump WANTED to change by having Congress pass legislation that would enable the jailing of anyone for any reason and without having to tell anyone why they had jailed that person or running any chance that the courts would order the person released because they were being jailed without "due cause".

    It is still possible to frustrate the habeus corpus laws by forbidding a court to hear such an application "on National Security grounds" BUT it doesn't look so good if you do that and it looks like what you are actually doing is conducting an "unlawful detention". If you manage to get a law passed that allows you to jail anyone for any reason and without having to tell anyone why they had jailed that person or running any chance that the courts would order the person released because they were being jailed without "due cause" then the detention is no longer an "unlawful detention" and the habeus corpus laws simply do not apply so you don't have to justify why the person is being jailed to anyone.
    Summary of 20/05/28 COVID-19 (Deaths/Cases) Mortality Statistics
    World (357,981/5,814,706) 6.16% / USA (102,116/1,746,311) 5.85% / Canada (6,765/87,519) 7.73%
    Running update of the COVID-19 data at Daily Statistical Summary of COVID-19

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    Re: DOJ Wants to Suspend Certain Constitutional Rights During Coronavirus Emergency

    Quote Originally Posted by TU Curmudgeon View Post
    Indeed, but that is the situation that Mr. Trump WANTED to change by having Congress pass legislation that would enable the jailing of anyone for any reason and without having to tell anyone why they had jailed that person or running any chance that the courts would order the person released because they were being jailed without "due cause".

    It is still possible to frustrate the habeus corpus laws by forbidding a court to hear such an application "on National Security grounds" BUT it doesn't look so good if you do that and it looks like what you are actually doing is conducting an "unlawful detention". If you manage to get a law passed that allows you to jail anyone for any reason and without having to tell anyone why they had jailed that person or running any chance that the courts would order the person released because they were being jailed without "due cause" then the detention is no longer an "unlawful detention" and the habeus corpus laws simply do not apply so you don't have to justify why the person is being jailed to anyone.
    What you describe in your first paragraph is the situation today in this country. It has been that way for quite a few years, before Trump took office.

    Since Bush and Obama, Habeas Corpus has been suspended. Congress and POTUS sign off on that every year with every NDAA bill. If the Executive asserts that Joe Blow is a terrorist suspect, he can be held indefinitely. Any judicial review does not come into play.

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