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Trump Not Guilty

marke said:
None of the Russians or Russian groups Mueller indicted for interference in the 2016 election was expected to ever challenge the indictments or to show up in court. That would have made it easier on Mueller because he would have been relieved of the responsibility to prove his allegations in court. An indictment is not a guilty verdict and defendants in US trials have rights. Mueller was completely taken by surprise when the lawyers for Concord Management, one of the Russian businesses indicted by Mueller, showed up in court demanding their rights, forcing Mueller to scramble to obtain court protections against delivering to the defense lawyers the materials US law demands the prosecutor give to the defense.

Concord claims innocence. Mueller charged Concord with a crime. Is Mueller right or is Concord right? In their court filed response to Mueller's indictment, lawyers for Concord said Mueller had wrongfully accused the company of a "make-believe crime," in a political effort by the special counsel to "justify his own existence" by indicting "a Russian - any Russian."

Given that the whole Mueller probe was entirely founded upon lies which proved to be lies, it looks like Concord has a pretty good case. The trial is currently set for April 2020. I am excited to see what comes out of that trial. Thank God that Concord is taking Mueller to court to prove he indicted them on phony charges for political show.

On another vein, can you tell us the name of the man Mueller said hand-carried the stolen DNC emails to Assange?
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The Report states firmly that Russia interfered with the election and the Trump campaign took the help and used it to help win.
 
jaypatriot said:
Hey Hay,
I wonder if Putin loves Trump so much that he ignores the sanctions placed on Russian and the fact that the Ukraine is buying lethal weapons from the U.S. with which to kill Russians in their country. Would that make Putin and Trump buddies?
Or is that too much of a logic leap for you?
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It changes nothing of the facts that Russian interferred in the election to help their choice of Trump get elected and the two men have enjoyed a bromance during the Trump term.
 
bomberfox said:
Since right wing hack sites are good enough for you, daily kos should be good too.
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Any site that offers facts is good enough for me, and I cite these, including Mediate and the Daily Beast, when they're relevant. Facts are facts, wherever you find them.

I also cite conservative opinions. I hope this won't come as too terrible a shock to you, but as a conservative, I subscribe to one and check others routinely, and--prepare yourself--frequently agree with those opinions.

But I do know the difference between facts and speculation.
 
haymarket said:
The Report states firmly that Russia interfered with the election and the Trump campaign took the help and used it to help win.
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Come on. You cannot deny that those are allegations, not guilty verdicts. Mueller claimed some things which have already proved to be inaccurate. Let's wait for the court cases to determine if his allegations will hold up or not.
 
nota bene said:
From Medical News Today about mydriasis causes:

Medications
Several different medications can cause mydriasis in one or both eyes.

Antihistamines, botox, muscle relaxants, and drugs used to treat Parkinson's disease may all cause the pupils to dilate.

Anticholinergics, which are used to block neurotransmitters in individuals with COPD, urinary incontinence, and other conditions, also have this effect.

Recreational drugs that include cocaine, LSD, ecstasy, and amphetamines can also cause dilated pupils. Mydriasis: Causes and treatment for dilated pupils

So many alternative explanations, but your "diagnosis" is Adderall abuse/addiction. Not really very fair.
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Correct; all of those medical conditions or drugs can cause dilated eyes which is why I posted such a link in my initial post:
Royal PITA said:
Would Adderall abuse be a better term? Yes. There have been reports going back to the 90s that Trump likes to crush and snort Adderall. The fact Trump, who is extremely out of shape, overweight and 73 years old, acts like a manic 30 year old on speed during his 1-2 hour long rants. The fact his eyes are always dilated when that happens. There are only a few reasons a person's eyes would be dilated in bright lights: Dilated Pupils (Mydriasis): Symptoms, Signs, Causes & Treatment....
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What's not fair? The fact I think it's Adderall and not cocaine or dementia? What do you think it is? Do you think most of those causes would be justification to use the 25th Amendment? Do Americans have a right to know the health of their President? His fitness to serve?
 
marke said:
Come on. You cannot deny that those are allegations, not guilty verdicts. Mueller claimed some things which have already proved to be inaccurate. Let's wait for the court cases to determine if his allegations will hold up or not.
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OJ was innocent too. What Mueller claims were inaccurate?
 
Royal PITA said:
Correct; all of those medical conditions or drugs can cause dilated eyes which is why I posted such a link in my initial post:

What's not fair? The fact I think it's Adderall and not cocaine or dementia? What do you think it is? Do you think most of those causes would be justification to use the 25th Amendment? Do Americans have a right to know the health of their President? His fitness to serve?
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Oh, so is this about your hope for the invocation of the 25th Amendment?

I'm laughing at your rhetorical questions, by the way, because they're an attempt to cloak your animus in concern of the rights of "we the people." So lame.
 
nota bene said:
Oh, so is this about your hope for the invocation of the 25th Amendment?

I'm laughing at your rhetorical questions, by the way, because they're an attempt to cloak your animus in concern of the rights of "we the people." So lame.
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No, it's about an "armchair diagnosis" on why Trump's behavior is erratic and why his eyes are dilated. I asked you a question and you answered with an assuming question. Why?

Why the personal attacks? I thought we were having an adult conversation and now you are attacking me? Note your position and mine then tell me that's "fair".
 
Royal PITA said:
No, it's about an "armchair diagnosis" on why Trump's behavior is erratic and why his eyes are dilated. I asked you a question and you answered with an assuming question. Why?

Why the personal attacks? I thought we were having an adult conversation and now you are attacking me? Note your position and mine then tell me that's "fair".
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Dude, your reputation around here is nothing compared to nota, so you're impressing no one but yourself. Her behavior is more a response to your behavior than anything else. Try to be less disingenuous in your statements.
 
Tbird19482 said:
and a lot of them broke their oath to be impartial jurors
a lot of them said they didn't care what the evidence was they were NOT going to vote to remove Trump no matter what
They should some how be put up on charges for breaking that oath.
have a nice day
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Did you see any bias in the House when voting to impeach?
 
marke said:
Democrats have it in their head that Trump is a crook but they show bad judgment by labeling the innocent guilty and the guilty innocent.
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Just because Trump was acquitted by a republican-controlled senate doesn't mean he's innocent. Making a phone call to a foreign leader to investigate a political opponent and his son isn't exactly an innocent move.

I personally don't think Trump as president is all that bad. But Trump as a person is a jerk, and that's putting it mildly. The diehard Trump supporters seem to excuse every action of this man, even though they know that some of his actions and statements are highly questionable, and not all of his policies are things they can fully agree with.
 
Royal PITA said:
Trump strong-armed Zelensky to publicly announce he'd investigate Biden. Not actually investigate, but just announce it. That's a request to fabricate information. YMMV

Ukraine was making plans to give in to Trump's Biden request: report | TheHill
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky was reportedly preparing to announce the investigation requested by President Trump into former Vice President Joe Biden’s son Hunter Biden in order to secure military aid withheld by the Trump administration until word the funds had been frozen leaked.

In a July 25 phone call that occurred days after Trump froze the aid and has become central to House Democrats' impeachment effort, Trump urged Zelensky to announce the probe into Hunter Biden and Burisma Holdings, a Ukrainian energy company for which he worked...

...White House officials have since insisted that there was no quid pro quo in Trump's request, but several U.S. officials, including Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland, have testified in the House that the aid was specifically conditioned on the public statement.
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Democrats put together the strongest case they could for proving that Trump secretly wanted info on Biden for selfish reasons. Unfortunately they never proved that, but even if they had they faced the bigger hurdle of proving that is an impeachable offence.
 
marke said:
Democrats have it in their head that Trump is a crook but they show bad judgment by labeling the innocent guilty and the guilty innocent.
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You seem to have that backwards. The right spent 6 year desperately trying to find dirt on Hillary Clinton and in the end couldn't come up with one single solitary charge to file against her. Yet they still claim she's a crook. Meanwhile in less than two years of investigating Trump's administration Robert Mueller successfully got guilty pleas or guilty verdicts against 6 core members of Trump's administration and campaign including his own personal lawyer who himself implemented Trump in each of his crimes. He also put together enough evidence against Trump that over 1000 federal presecutors signed a letter stating that if Trump were not currently the president of the United States he could have and would have been charged with more than 10 separate felonies.

Oh, and this was before all the Ukraine stuff came out, where in which Fox News own chief legal analyst came forward multiple times stating that base don the evidence of the case against Trump he should be removed from office.

Also, is Mitt Romney a Democrat? Cause if he is why the **** did Republicans nominate him for President 8 years ago?
 
marke said:
Democrats have it in their head that Trump is a crook but they show bad judgment by labeling the innocent guilty and the guilty innocent.
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Of course. Just look at how hard they go in the paint for thugs. The failed witch hunt on Trump is a prime example of the backwardness emanating from Libs.
 
jaypatriot said:
To you cred or to the Lord of Planar,

Tell me, how could you possibly know if this impeachment fiasco will haunt Democrats any more than Republicans - or vice versa?
How do you judge something like that when there are so many variables determining electability?
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I don't. That's why it's called an opinion.
 
haymarket said:
The Report states firmly that Russia interfered with the election and the Trump campaign took the help and used it to help win.
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Yes, that was the unproven allegation. That, however, was not a proven fact or a guilty verdict. Mueller's team were composed entirely of Trump-hating Hillary supporters known for lying or stretching the truth to suit their partisan political purposes.
 
haymarket said:
It changes nothing of the facts that Russian interferred in the election to help their choice of Trump get elected and the two men have enjoyed a bromance during the Trump term.
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Unproven biased speculation is hardly to be accepted as irrefutable fact.
 
marke said:
Democrats put together the strongest case they could for proving that Trump secretly wanted info on Biden for selfish reasons. Unfortunately they never proved that, but even if they had they faced the bigger hurdle of proving that is an impeachable offence.
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It certainly helped Trump that the Republicans not only ran interference for him but that Trump himself ordered key witnesses to disobey subpoenas.

General Kelly said he believes Bolton. Do you? Based on your posts, I'm guessing you do not, but you might surprise me.
 
marke said:
It all boils down to this: Trump is in charge and not the democrats and it looks like he is going to win reelection by a landslide and that is totally unacceptable to faithful democrats standing on the sidelines desperately wanting to get back into the game.
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If Trump wins it will be because he cheated. Trump is still the only President to not reach 50% in the Gallup poll.
 
Indie guy said:
Just because Trump was acquitted by a republican-controlled senate doesn't mean he's innocent. Making a phone call to a foreign leader to investigate a political opponent and his son isn't exactly an innocent move.

I personally don't think Trump as president is all that bad. But Trump as a person is a jerk, and that's putting it mildly. The diehard Trump supporters seem to excuse every action of this man, even though they know that some of his actions and statements are highly questionable, and not all of his policies are things they can fully agree with.
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Schiff made the accusations against the President, but he did not prove his allegations to be true so the jury acquitted him. Insisting Schiff was right and the judge and jury were wrong is not an innocent move.
 
marke said:
Trump was found guilty by a minority of jurors and democrats claim that makes Trump guilty? That must mean that abortion is illegal because it was judged illegal by 2 SCOTUS judges.
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A majority of the Senate found him guilty even if some did not vote to remove him for his offenses. That is a stain that will not come out.
 
MrWonka said:
You seem to have that backwards. The right spent 6 year desperately trying to find dirt on Hillary Clinton and in the end couldn't come up with one single solitary charge to file against her. Yet they still claim she's a crook. Meanwhile in less than two years of investigating Trump's administration Robert Mueller successfully got guilty pleas or guilty verdicts against 6 core members of Trump's administration and campaign including his own personal lawyer who himself implemented Trump in each of his crimes. He also put together enough evidence against Trump that over 1000 federal presecutors signed a letter stating that if Trump were not currently the president of the United States he could have and would have been charged with more than 10 separate felonies.

Oh, and this was before all the Ukraine stuff came out, where in which Fox News own chief legal analyst came forward multiple times stating that base don the evidence of the case against Trump he should be removed from office.

Also, is Mitt Romney a Democrat? Cause if he is why the **** did Republicans nominate him for President 8 years ago?
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You can heap all the charges and allegations you like against the President and back up those allegations with the opinions of millions of Americans, but if, after 3 years of nonstop high intensity efforts the allegations cannot be proven in court and if the jury declares the defendant not guilty it is time for the accusers to give up and go home.
 
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