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FISA Court Admits Spy Warrants Against Carter Page Were 'Not Valid'

Simon W. Moon said:
That rule doesn't apply to recording conversations or listening in as has been alleged upthread.
It refers to metadata like time stamps, durations, phone numbers, etc.
Again and still quite different from what Trump claimed.
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Non-adversarial here, can you post a link to some information regarding that?

Thank you.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Page had a phone in Trump Tower. How do you not understand that is tapping a phone line in Trump Tower?
I mean besides not being able to comprehend something basic.
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"Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory."​

Page's cell phone ≠ Trump's wires in Trump Tower
 
Simon W. Moon said:
That rule doesn't apply to recording conversations or listening in as has been alleged upthread.
It refers to metadata like time stamps, durations, phone numbers, etc.
Again and still quite different from what Trump claimed.
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Can you point me to where that was stated in this thread? It's late, and I'm headed for bed, and I'm interested in learning more about it (I'll read it tomorrow).
But form my present understanding, not sure it is as you are saying, but I may be wrong, and if wrong, it would certainly place a frame of reference around what some are claiming. Thanks.

(Oh, I see that I'm not the only one).
 
Simon W. Moon said:
two hop rule metadata collection - Google Search

Choose your own source
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One of the citations in that search results states this:

Some of the surveillance done under “warrant” approval from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) may be current surveillance, which may entail watching a subject’s texts, emails, phone calls, etc. as they occur in real time. But a great deal of what we call “surveillance” today is actually data-mining—using the fabled NSA database—or direct requests from federal agencies for customer data stored by telecoms and internet service providers.
Why Civil Libertarians Should Be Worried about the FISA Warrant on Carter Page – Tablet Magazine
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"watching a subject’s texts, emails, phone calls, etc. "

Doesn't sound like just meta data. Sounds like actual content.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
"Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory."​

Page's cell phone ≠ Trump's wires in Trump Tower
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Again, if it allows listening to his (Trump's) conversations, you are talking about a semantic difference.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Lets back up, you asked for proof of assertions, you have gotten them. Your turn to back your claims or stop the nonsense.
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You absolutely did NOT provide "proof" for your hysterical assertions. On the contrary, you own link contradicted all of your claims.

But more to the point -- how do you do that? How are you able to lie so easily? How do think it's okay to lie to support your flawed political ideology? Were you raised by animals?

:confused:
 
Marine Electric said:
You absolutely did NOT provide "proof" for your hysterical assertions. On the contrary, you own link contradicted all of your claims.

But more to the point -- how do you do that? How are you able to lie so easily? How do think it's okay to lie to support your flawed political ideology? Were you raised by animals?

:confused:
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I made very specific assertions. 17 lapses in the FISA filings by the FBI detailed in the Horowitz IG report. The dossier was known to be bad intelligence in January of 3027 per the Mueller report summary pages 11 and 12. The 2nd and 3rd FISA warrants have been deemed illegal by the court and admitted publicly by the FBI.

All verified facts. Your turn to back things up. Judging from your response, I am betting you won't.
 
OpportunityCost said:
I made very specific assertions. 17 lapses in the FISA filings by the FBI detailed in the Horowitz IG report. The dossier was known to be bad intelligence in January of 3027 per the Mueller report summary pages 11 and 12. The 2nd and 3rd FISA warrants have been deemed illegal by the court and admitted publicly by the FBI.

All verified facts. Your turn to back things up. Judging from your response, I am betting you won't.
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Okay, start here, you said: "The dossier was known to be bad intelligence in January of 3027 per the Mueller report summary pages 11 and 12."

There are two page 11's and two page 12's but neither one contains anything remotely like what you claim here. So, provide the direct quote and cite the correct page from The Mueller Report that verifies your claim.

Thanks.

:2wave:
 
eohrnberger said:
One of the citations in that search results states this:
"watching a subject’s texts, emails, phone calls, etc. "
Doesn't sound like just meta data. Sounds like actual content.
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It may well sound like that to you.

Can you quote the exact words which make it sound that way?
 
OpportunityCost said:
Appreciated, but how does that apply to active collection of audio? Which Page was under? This wasn't just metadata collection.
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That's my question to you.
You're the one who brought that article into the conversation.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Again, if it allows listening to his (Trump's) conversations, you are talking about a semantic difference.
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Words mean things.

Tapping Trump's phone lines means that all calls to and from TRUMP'S PHONE would be subject to monitoring.

Tapping Page's phone lines means that all calls to and from PAGE'S PHONE would be subject to monitoring

These are two different scenarios.

Trump's phone ≠ Page's phone
 
OpportunityCost said:
Again, if it allows listening to his (Trump's) conversations, you are talking about a semantic difference.
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Again, just 2 out of the 4 warrants issued to probe Carter Page were deemed flawed -- but more importantly, Carter Page was never charged with a crime!!! The FBI agreed to sequester the fruits of the Page surveillance and nothing found was ever used in any other criminal case.

:2wave:
 
Marine Electric said:
Again, just 2 out of the 4 warrants issued to probe Carter Page were deemed flawed -- but more importantly, Carter Page was never charged with a crime!!! The FBI agreed to sequester the fruits of the Page surveillance and nothing found was ever used in any other criminal case.

:2wave:
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2 out 4 ---for now. They didn't agree, they were ordered to and only recently, within the last 60 days, meaning they had information they had violated the 4th amendment to get. IE they got caught.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Words mean things.

Tapping Trump's phone lines means that all calls to and from TRUMP'S PHONE would be subject to monitoring.

Tapping Page's phone lines means that all calls to and from PAGE'S PHONE would be subject to monitoring

These are two different scenarios.

Trump's phone ≠ Page's phone
Click to expand...

:roll:
 
Simon W. Moon said:
That's my question to you.
You're the one who brought that article into the conversation.
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I don't know, and I don't think anyone here will unless its published as a court finding or in the IG report somewhere.
 
Marine Electric said:
Okay, start here, you said: "The dossier was known to be bad intelligence in January of 3027 per the Mueller report summary pages 11 and 12."

There are two page 11's and two page 12's but neither one contains anything remotely like what you claim here. So, provide the direct quote and cite the correct page from The Mueller Report that verifies your claim.

Thanks.

:2wave:
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Sorry, 11 and 12 of the IG report referencing the Mueller investigation.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
It may well sound like that to you.

Can you quote the exact words which make it sound that way?
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"watching a subject’s texts, emails, phone calls, etc. "

Seems a FISA warrant would allow Federal LEOs access to the content of private communications:
Judicial and public oversight

Stephen Vladeck, a professor at the University of Texas School of Law, has argued that, without having to seek the approval of the court (which he has said merely reviews certifications to ensure that they – and not the surveillance itself – comply with the various statutory requirements), the U.S. Attorney General and the Director of National Intelligence can engage in sweeping programmatic surveillance for one year at a time.[SUP][33][/SUP] There are procedures used by the NSA to target non-U.S. persons[SUP][34][/SUP] and procedures used by the NSA to minimize data collection from U.S. persons.[SUP][35][/SUP] These court-approved policies allow the NSA to do the following:[SUP][36][/SUP][SUP][37][/SUP]

  • keep data that could potentially contain details of U.S. persons for up to five years;
  • retain and make use of "inadvertently acquired" domestic communications if they contain usable intelligence, information on criminal activity, threat of harm to people or property, are encrypted, or are believed to contain any information relevant to cybersecurity;
  • preserve "foreign intelligence information" contained within attorney–client communications; and
  • access the content of communications gathered from "U.S. based machine" or phone numbers in order to establish if targets are located in the U.S., for the purposes of ceasing further surveillance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Court
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"These court-approved policies allow the NSA to do the following:"
. . .
access the content of communications gathered from "U.S. based machine" or phone numbers"

It would appear that a FISA would in fact allow access to the content of the private communications. Now I do believe that the NSA is prohibited from accessing anything more than the metadata on a routine basis.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Sorry, 11 and 12 of the IG report referencing the Mueller investigation.
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Nowhere on pages 11 and 12 of the IG Report does it substantiate anything close to your claim; "The dossier was known to be bad intelligence in January of 3027 per the Mueller report summary pages 11 and 12." As a matter-of-fact, it doesn't say that anywhere in the IG Report because it isn't the TRUTH, it's manufactured fake-news repeated ad nauseum by the lying, radical right-wing media for the sole purpose of tricking the dumb-and-gullible among us into believing pure BS.

So, because we have proven that point, we can presume that the rest of your claims cannot be verified as well.

Can you man-up and concede that fact?

:confused:
 
Marine Electric said:
Nowhere on pages 11 and 12 of the IG Report does it substantiate anything close to your claim; "The dossier was known to be bad intelligence in January of 3027 per the Mueller report summary pages 11 and 12." As a matter-of-fact, it doesn't say that anywhere in the IG Report because it isn't the TRUTH, it's manufactured fake-news repeated ad nauseum by the lying, radical right-wing media for the sole purpose of tricking the dumb-and-gullible among us into believing pure BS.

So, because we have proven that point, we can presume that the rest of your claims cannot be verified as well.

Can you man-up and concede that fact?

:confused:
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I bet you are confused, because there is no way you read it. You know where you can shove that man up comment.

We also found that the FBI's interviews of Steele, his Primary Sub-source, a second sub-source, and other investigative activity, revealed potentially serious problems with Steele's descriptions of information in his reports. For example, as detailed in Chapters Six and Eight, the Primary Sub-source made statements during his/her January 2017 FBI interview that were inconsistent with multiple sections of the Steele reports, including some that were relied upon in the FISA applications. Among other things, regarding the allegations attributed to Person 1, the Primary Subsource's account of these communications, if true, was not consistent with and, in fact, contradicted the allegations of a "well-developed conspiracy" in Reports 95 and 102 attributed to Person 1. We further determined that the Crossfire Hurricane team was unable to corroborate any of the specific substantive allegations regarding Carter Page contained in Steele's election reporting which the FBI relied on in the FISA applications.

We were told by the Supervisory Intel Analyst that, as of September 2017, the FBI had corroborated limited information in the Steele election reporting, and much of that was publicly available information. Most relevant to the Carter Page FISA applications, the allegations contained in Reports
80, 94, 95, and 102, which were relied upon in all four applications, remained uncorroborated and, in several instances, were inconsistent with information gathered
by the Crossfire Hurricane team.
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They knew in January of 2017 that the primary source for the Steele dossier was lying or fabricated his portions. Oh, and quit ****ing insulting me.
 
OpportunityCost said:
I bet you are confused, because there is no way you read it. You know where you can shove that man up comment.



They knew in January of 2017 that the primary source for the Steele dossier was lying or fabricated his portions. Oh, and quit ****ing insulting me.
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:lamo:lamo:lamo

Move the goal posts much!!!!

You. Got. Owned.

Like I said, man-up and admit you lied and made stuff up so we can at least have some respect for you.

:lamo
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Words mean things.

Tapping Trump's phone lines means that all calls to and from TRUMP'S PHONE would be subject to monitoring.

Tapping Page's phone lines means that all calls to and from PAGE'S PHONE would be subject to monitoring

These are two different scenarios.

Trump's phone ≠ Page's phone
Click to expand...

All calls to and from Trumps phone were subject to monitoring.
 
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