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Thread: Hunter Biden’s Ukraine gas firm pressed Obama administration to end corruption allegations

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    Re: Hunter Biden’s Ukraine gas firm pressed Obama administration to end corruption allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Biden's threat to withhold funding unless the investigation was spiked was in December 2015 and the investigation was then shelved,
    I'll stop you there, because it's false.

    Here's some ACTUAL reporting by Bloomberg, for example:

    Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

    In a December 2014 letter, U.S. officials warned Ukrainian prosecutors of negative consequences for Ukraine over its failure to assist the U.K., which had seized Zlochevsky’s assets, according to the documents.

    Those funds, $23.5 million, were unblocked in 2015 when a British court determined there wasn’t enough evidence to justify the continued freeze, in part because Ukrainian prosecutors [Shokin was lead] had failed to provide the necessary information.
    ...
    Shokin became prosecutor general in February 2015. Over the next year, the U.S. and the International Monetary Fund criticized officials for not doing enough to fight corruption in Ukraine.

    Shokin took no action to pursue cases against Zlochevsky throughout 2015,
    Here's the U.S. ambassador on Sept 24, 2015 calling out Shokin's failure to prosecute Zlochevsky (Burisma's owner).

    "//https://m.facebook.com/usdos.ukraine/posts/10153248488506936"

    Note that I had to butcher the IRL so it didn't post a WALL of text of the whole speech, but the link starts at https:

    It's weird how the U.S., and UK and IMF and others wanted Shokin fired, and said so in public remarks for NOT investigating Burisma and Zlochevsky, then just two months later, Biden wants him fired to stop an investigation that didn't exist and that the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine had called Shokin out in public for NOT DOING.

    This kind of crap is why no one should read Solomon. If he was interested in the truth, he'd at least have to confront and explain these obvious contradictions, but he's a hack pushing someone unknown's agenda, and is willing to promote liars and thugs to do it, like Shokin and others.

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    Re: Hunter Biden’s Ukraine gas firm pressed Obama administration to end corruption allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I saw an interesting take on this manufactured scandal... essentially the thought was that this narrative was built by the whistleblower and the parade of Democrat informants to gather whistleblower protection before the Russia investigation report is released. The theory is that the assumed whistleblower will also be named as a leak source to the media of Trump/Russia collusion lies since he worked for Brennan.

    You also have to love how oblivious the media is. The Washington post printed a glowing defense of Vindman saying that he came forward when he became worried that Trump's discussions with the Ukrainian president might "undermine US foreign policy" ... let that nonsense sink in.
    I know, right.
    If a President didn't make decisions hostile to the preferred foreign policy of those not currently in power there wouldn't be a problem.
    Now expand that concept to matters not involving foreign policy and you have the reasons for a lot of what's going on.
    The Resistance can be found well outside of those who were elected.

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    Re: Hunter Biden’s Ukraine gas firm pressed Obama administration to end corruption allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    That's not true. The investigation was in a drawer, like it had been for a couple of years. There was no investigation to spike, and Shokin had a history of NOT prosecuting Burisma and the owner, which is one reason why the UK was on board with firing his corrupt rear end.
    Y'all lies are getting exposed.
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    Re: Hunter Biden’s Ukraine gas firm pressed Obama administration to end corruption allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'll stop you there, because it's false.

    Here's some ACTUAL reporting by Bloomberg, for example:

    Bloomberg - Are you a robot?



    Here's the U.S. ambassador on Sept 24, 2015 calling out Shokin's failure to prosecute Zlochevsky (Burisma's owner).

    "//https://m.facebook.com/usdos.ukraine/posts/10153248488506936"

    Note that I had to butcher the IRL so it didn't post a WALL of text of the whole speech, but the link starts at https:

    It's weird how the U.S., and UK and IMF and others wanted Shokin fired, and said so in public remarks for NOT investigating Burisma and Zlochevsky, then just two months later, Biden wants him fired to stop an investigation that didn't exist and that the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine had called Shokin out in public for NOT DOING.

    This kind of crap is why no one should read Solomon. If he was interested in the truth, he'd at least have to confront and explain these obvious contradictions, but he's a hack pushing someone unknown's agenda, and is willing to promote liars and thugs to do it, like Shokin and others.

    Nothing in that stated that they wanted BURSIMA investigated. And regardless, Bursima had a channel to the State Department in 2016 regardless or what the US Ukraine ambassador said in a Facebook post in 2015, and soon after there name drop, Shokin was fired. Tell me, how did Biden's choice for that position do in their investigation of Bursima?
    A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. ― C.S. Lewis

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    Re: Hunter Biden’s Ukraine gas firm pressed Obama administration to end corruption allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I saw an interesting take on this manufactured scandal... essentially the thought was that this narrative was built by the whistleblower and the parade of Democrat informants to gather whistleblower protection before the Russia investigation report is released. The theory is that the assumed whistleblower will also be named as a leak source to the media of Trump/Russia collusion lies since he worked for Brennan.

    You also have to love how oblivious the media is. The Washington post printed a glowing defense of Vindman saying that he came forward when he became worried that Trump's discussions with the Ukrainian president might "undermine US foreign policy" ... let that nonsense sink in.
    The sad part, is that the TDS'ers will fall for that ****...lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by vegas giants View Post
    Che fought for freedom
    Quote Originally Posted by HumblePi View Post
    Only those indicted and found guilty by the Grand Jury.

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    Re: Hunter Biden’s Ukraine gas firm pressed Obama administration to end corruption allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Nothing in that stated that they wanted BURSIMA investigated. And regardless, Bursima had a channel to the State Department in 2016 regardless or what the US Ukraine ambassador said in a Facebook post in 2015, and soon after there name drop, Shokin was fired. Tell me, how did Biden's choice for that position do in their investigation of Bursima?
    The speech by the Ambassador specifically names Zlochevsky and Shokin's failure to cooperate with the UK inquiry. If you don't want to read it, I can't make you but you don't get to pretend that it's not in the speech. If you want I'll cite the entire thing.

    And the pressure to fire Shokin had been constant for MONTHS by the time the legislature there finally got around to it. You're attributing cause and effect to the lobbying efforts, and ignoring a very, very, very public campaign by the UK, U.S. State, our Ambassador, IMF, reformers in Ukraine and others to get rid of Shokin.

    Again, this is why no one should every click on a John Solomon link, because this kind of half truth is his strategy. If you want to assert it was the lobbyist who got Shokin removed, you at least have to ACKNOWLEDGE all the rest that went on for months before that having nothing to do with the lobbyist.

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    Re: Hunter Biden’s Ukraine gas firm pressed Obama administration to end corruption allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The sad part, is that the TDS'ers will fall for that ****...lol.
    Every single time.
    A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. ― C.S. Lewis

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    Re: Hunter Biden’s Ukraine gas firm pressed Obama administration to end corruption allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The speech by the Ambassador specifically names Zlochevsky and Shokin's failure to cooperate with the UK inquiry. If you don't want to read it, I can't make you but you don't get to pretend that it's not in the speech. If you want I'll cite the entire thing.
    I did read it. In fact he has stated incorrectly what transpired. Here is a Ukraine story that goes into greater detail. Essentially the issue with the UK was trying to prosecute Zlochevsky for corruption when he was employed as Ukraine's Minister of Ecology and Natural Resources when the Ukraine had not reached the point where they were prosecuting Zlochevsky. At that point the PGO was prosecuting the aco****ing firm used by Bursima on a $180 million fraud.

    I mean, think for a second what the Democrats are feeding you as a defense: Joe Biden corruption bashing in the Ukraine with claims of quid pro quo with US funds is OK even when it directly involves his son... but Trump corruption bashing in the Ukraine with no clear demand of quid pro quo with US funding is bad because it might involve Joe Biden? If the root of Trump's crime is a possible quid pro quo using US funds then the obvious root of Trump's interest in the Biden case is the clear boasting by Joe Biden of a quid pro quo deal using US funds.

    And the pressure to fire Shokin had been constant for MONTHS by the time the legislature there finally got around to it. You're attributing cause and effect to the lobbying efforts, and ignoring a very, very, very public campaign by the UK, U.S. State, our Ambassador, IMF, reformers in Ukraine and others to get rid of Shokin.
    Well sure, by Biden's own words he had been threaten Ukraine with withholding funding for at least three months before they fired him.

    I'll ask again: Since you seem to want to accept Biden's claim that he cleaned up the PGO with his threat to withhold funding, and getting his preferred prosecutor in the position, how did that Bursima case turn out?

    You can't have it both ways. You want to claim Biden had, what, justification (?) for railing against Shokin for sitting on the Bursima case when, in the end, Joe's guy dropped the Bursima case? And through ALL of this ongoing years of corruption there is Hunter Biden working for Bursima.

    Again, this is why no one should every click on a John Solomon link, because this kind of half truth is his strategy. If you want to assert it was the lobbyist who got Shokin removed, you at least have to ACKNOWLEDGE all the rest that went on for months before that having nothing to do with the lobbyist.
    Actually, you are the one dealing in half truths. You are trying to erase half of the story by hand waving and presenting one facebook post by the US ambassador to Ukraine as if it undoes what Biden admitted to doing.
    A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. ― C.S. Lewis

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    Re: Hunter Biden’s Ukraine gas firm pressed Obama administration to end corruption allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I did read it. In fact he has stated incorrectly what transpired. Here is a Ukraine story that goes into greater detail. Essentially the issue with the UK was trying to prosecute Zlochevsky for corruption when he was employed as Ukraine's Minister of Ecology and Natural Resources when the Ukraine had not reached the point where they were prosecuting Zlochevsky. At that point the PGO was prosecuting the aco****ing firm used by Bursima on a $180 million fraud.

    I mean, think for a second what the Democrats are feeding you as a defense: Joe Biden corruption bashing in the Ukraine with claims of quid pro quo with US funds is OK even when it directly involves his son... but Trump corruption bashing in the Ukraine with no clear demand of quid pro quo with US funding is bad because it might involve Joe Biden? If the root of Trump's crime is a possible quid pro quo using US funds then the obvious root of Trump's interest in the Biden case is the clear boasting by Joe Biden of a quid pro quo deal using US funds.



    Well sure, by Biden's own words he had been threaten Ukraine with withholding funding for at least three months before they fired him.

    I'll ask again: Since you seem to want to accept Biden's claim that he cleaned up the PGO with his threat to withhold funding, and getting his preferred prosecutor in the position, how did that Bursima case turn out?

    You can't have it both ways. You want to claim Biden had, what, justification (?) for railing against Shokin for sitting on the Bursima case when, in the end, Joe's guy dropped the Bursima case? And through ALL of this ongoing years of corruption there is Hunter Biden working for Bursima.

    Actually, you are the one dealing in half truths. You are trying to erase half of the story by hand waving and presenting one facebook post by the US ambassador to Ukraine as if it undoes what Biden admitted to doing.
    I'm not dealing in half truths. I've already cited actual accounts quoting from documents in the PGO that the Burisma case was deader than dead throughout 2015. There was no reason for Joe Biden to move heaven and earth to get a guy fired who, along with his predecessor, had been sitting on the Burisma case for years.

    And not just Burisma - have you read about the diamond prosecutors? You should. Shokin said it was fine for his prosecutors to be caught with big stashes of diamonds. No problem. That's the guy.

    Viktor Shokin: The inside story on Ukraine’s ‘very good’ prosecutor at centre of Trump scandal | The Independent

    A search of the men’s apartments revealed a scene that looked like a comic heist: bags full of cash, diamonds and other precious stones. But that was not the only incriminating evidence. Documents seized at the time indicated the men appeared to have a connection to the top prosecutor in the land, Viktor Shokin.

    Police found copies of Shokin’s passports, property registration certificates and even his licence to carry firearms. One of the two men, it transpired, was Shokin’s former driver who had subsequently climbed the ranks behind his boss.

    For Sakvarelidze, there were clear suspicions the two men may have been carrying out the business of the chief. But his attempts to investigate were frustrated. Soon, he faced a corruption investigation himself. At loggerheads with Shokin, he was pushed out of his job within the year.
    Put simply, the chronology doesn’t work – the investigation into Burisma, where Hunter worked, was dormant by the time Shokin was pushed out. It would also represent a major historical anomaly. During Shokin’s 13 months in office, not one major figure was convicted. No oligarch. No politician. No ranking bureaucrat. It would appear unlikely he was in the middle of breaking the habit with the Bidens.

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    Re: Hunter Biden’s Ukraine gas firm pressed Obama administration to end corruption allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I did read it. In fact he has stated incorrectly what transpired. Here is a Ukraine story that goes into greater detail. Essentially the issue with the UK was trying to prosecute Zlochevsky for corruption when he was employed as Ukraine's Minister of Ecology and Natural Resources when the Ukraine had not reached the point where they were prosecuting Zlochevsky. At that point the PGO was prosecuting the aco****ing firm used by Bursima on a $180 million fraud.

    I mean, think for a second what the Democrats are feeding you as a defense: Joe Biden corruption bashing in the Ukraine with claims of quid pro quo with US funds is OK even when it directly involves his son... but Trump corruption bashing in the Ukraine with no clear demand of quid pro quo with US funding is bad because it might involve Joe Biden? If the root of Trump's crime is a possible quid pro quo using US funds then the obvious root of Trump's interest in the Biden case is the clear boasting by Joe Biden of a quid pro quo deal using US funds.



    Well sure, by Biden's own words he had been threaten Ukraine with withholding funding for at least three months before they fired him.

    I'll ask again: Since you seem to want to accept Biden's claim that he cleaned up the PGO with his threat to withhold funding, and getting his preferred prosecutor in the position, how did that Bursima case turn out?

    You can't have it both ways. You want to claim Biden had, what, justification (?) for railing against Shokin for sitting on the Bursima case when, in the end, Joe's guy dropped the Bursima case? And through ALL of this ongoing years of corruption there is Hunter Biden working for Bursima.



    Actually, you are the one dealing in half truths. You are trying to erase half of the story by hand waving and presenting one facebook post by the US ambassador to Ukraine as if it undoes what Biden admitted to doing.
    The Ukrainian onion is unpeeling, layer by layer - and the sulfurous fumes are getting thick. Whatever one thinks of alleged Trump strong-arming to investigate Biden, there is NO DOUBT that anyone rushing to defend Biden is also on shaky ground.

    You are correct. The "prima facia" strong suspicion of skull-doggery is rooted in what should be obvious to knee-jerk Biden defenders - his side's cover stories don't add up.

    Tracing its history ought to be sufficient.

    Biden's son, and partner join the Board of Bursima.

    Bursima has a "reputation" of being corrupt. Skokin, the Prosecutor, becomes a target of several in the West, including Obama and Biden, for his failure to pursue Bursima. Just everyone knows Bursima has been "corrupt" and Skokin is protecting them, they claim. That is unacceptable and they demand a greater effort.

    Biden get's Skokin fired, to please Biden and the Obama Administration.

    But EVER SO ODDLY, after Biden's "good guy" is appointed, the Biden interest in Bursima wanes further, and the investigations are dropped entirely . IE in the logic of critics, it is the NEW guy protects Bursima and that is just fine with Biden.

    Yep Biden is happy, his son is happy, the "corrupt" Bursima is happy.

    So JasperL has to at least confess this Biden cover story is transparent nonsense. JasperL can crank the siren about the UK, bullhorn aspirations about John Solomon's motivations, and throw up all the story detail chaff to obscure screen as he like's BUT one can't get away from the contradiction. EITHER Bursima and its oligarch owner were never corrupt and Skokin should have never been fired by a threat of a "quid pro quo" OR Bursima was corrupt but Biden had another purpose in mind.

    So if Bursima was corrupt, then why did Joe Biden laud the replacement who also did nothing and, effectively, did what Skokin was accused of doing - you know, the guy Biden hated? There are only two possibilities: 1) Skokin's investigation actually was threatening to Bursima and Hunter so Joe stopped it for self-serving reasons or 2) Biden was a thoughtless buffoon who was more interested in showing Obama he was a tough guy and could push around Ukraine law enforcement (via threats) than in accomplishing anything moral.

    Jasper's choice, no?
    Last edited by maxparrish; 11-05-19 at 06:41 PM.

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