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Thread: Democratic leaders walk back Thursday impeachment vote

  1. #81
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    Re: Democratic leaders walk back Thursday impeachment vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fishking View Post
    There we go! There has to be something added on to "abuse of office", as you just did, but is also stated in your link. So "abuse of power"...or...I'll grant that as being the same as "abuse of office" is not stand-alone. So when we go back to the statement I responded to "....Abuse of Power and Obstruction if Justice..." it would have to be "abuse of power/office by obstructing justice".

    Now let me know how Ukraine was extorted or even how that applies to foreign relations because we routinely, as a matter of policy, use funding and such to get our way with things.

    -edit- For example, was it extortion when Biden withheld $1 billion in funding to Ukraine until they fired the prosecutor?
    The Unthinking Left think you can have an investigation without following due process, it's ****ing ludicrous...
    They are following due process. What the **** violation do you think has occurred? You think the secrecy is a problem? What, you think a police officer is obligated to interview a witness in front of the accused criminal?
    Actually our system guarantees an accused the right to confront his accuser.
    At trial, yes. Not during the ****ing investigation. Do you people think any of this through or do you just regurgitate what Fox News and Trump's twitter feed tell you?
    Actually impeachment and removal are more akin to a civil than a criminal proceeding. The end result is not jail but consequences akin to an injunction, i.e. removal from office. Under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, New York Civil Practice Law and Rules and most other civil procedures the right to confrontation attaches very shortly after the start of proceedings. And the Plaintiff has very limited rights, under FRCP and analogous state provisions to conduct pre-commencement of action discovery. Certainly a civil plaintiff has no right to star-chamber a witness in secret.

    I'll admit that there isn't much precedential law on this.

  2. #82
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    Re: Democratic leaders walk back Thursday impeachment vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    How many crimes have there been?

    I know, you think the entire legal history of the United States doesn't count, for some reason. Show me one instance of the right to face an accuser being applied at the witness interview stage, ever.
    I hardly think a congressional impeachment inquery equates to a common crime investigation.
    The more a nation drifts from the TRUTH

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    Re: Democratic leaders walk back Thursday impeachment vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    I hardly think a congressional impeachment inquery equates to a common crime investigation.
    Ok great, so on what basis are you declaring congressional impeachment means the right to face an accuser during witness interviews? You've thrown out all of conventional legal precedent so your evidence pool appears to be zero.
    “personal attorney” to Individual-1, who at that point had become the President of the United States
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    I don't know who [Individual-1] is and neither do you.

  4. #84
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    Re: Democratic leaders walk back Thursday impeachment vote

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertU View Post
    A common misconception is that the president can only be impeached for violating a criminal law.

    Alexander Hamilton explained the causes for impeachment:

    those offenses which proceed from the misconduct of public men, or in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated POLITICAL, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself.

    Source: Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist, and the Power of Impeachment
    OK, Name the wrong doing?

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    Re: Democratic leaders walk back Thursday impeachment vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Casca XV View Post
    OK, Name the wrong doing?
    Abuse of power by withholding military aid in return for investigating the son of a political opponent.
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    Re: Democratic leaders walk back Thursday impeachment vote

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertU View Post
    Abuse of power by withholding military aid in return for investigating the son of a political opponent.
    Except the military aid was never withheld. Biden bragged about committing crimes on video.

    The President is Americas Chief Law Enforcement Officer and running for office doesn't make anyone immune form criminal investigation.

    Does anyone sane actually think Biden is a political threat to President Trump?

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    Re: Democratic leaders walk back Thursday impeachment vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    Actually our system guarantees an accused the right to confront his accuser.
    Do Trumipsts know anything about the constitution they seem to hate so much?

    The 6th Amendment confrontation right applies only to certain criminal proceedings. (And not even all of them, at that. You have no confrontation rights during a grand jury hearing, for one thing).
    Zelensky: [. . .] We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

    Trump: I would like you to do us a favor though [. . . ]

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    Re: Democratic leaders walk back Thursday impeachment vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Person View Post
    Do Trumipsts know anything about the constitution they seem to hate so much?

    The 6th Amendment confrontation right applies only to certain criminal proceedings. (And not even all of them, at that. You have no confrontation rights during a grand jury hearing, for one thing).
    And impeachment ISN'T a criminal proceeding? It's allegedly about "high CRIMES and misdemeanors".
    The more a nation drifts from the TRUTH

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  9. #89
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    Re: Democratic leaders walk back Thursday impeachment vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    And impeachment ISN'T a criminal proceeding? It's allegedly about "high CRIMES and misdemeanors".
    language and labels can be such confusing things to some.


    High Crimes and Misdemeanors - Constitutional Rights Foundation


    Mason abandoned “maladministration” and proposed “high crimes and misdemeanors against the state.” The convention adopted Mason’s proposal, but dropped “against the state.” The final version, which appears in the Constitution, stated: “The president, vice-president, and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.”

    The convention adopted “high crimes and misdemeanors” with little discussion. Most of the framers knew the phrase well. Since 1386, the English parliament had used “high crimes and misdemeanors” as one of the grounds to impeach officials of the crown. Officials accused of “high crimes and misdemeanors” were accused of offenses as varied as misappropriating government funds, appointing unfit subordinates, not prosecuting cases, not spending money allocated by Parliament, promoting themselves ahead of more deserving candidates, threatening a grand jury, disobeying an order from Parliament, arresting a man to keep him from running for Parliament, losing a ship by neglecting to moor it, helping “suppress petitions to the King to call a Parliament,” granting warrants without cause, and bribery. Some of these charges were crimes. Others were not. The one common denominator in all these accusations was that the official had somehow abused the power of his office and was unfit to serve.
    My Karma ran over your Dogma.

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