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Democratic leaders walk back Thursday impeachment vote

dcsports said:
Read the article.

This was being promoted as a vote on an impeachment inquiry by the left. It's obviously an attempt to walk a fine line and make both establishment and the fringe left happy. The fringe left was calling it a move toward impeachment, and Republicans were excited to get Democrats on the record. Pelosi had to 'walk back' the comments, stating it was NOT an impeachment vote, because Democrats in competitive districts want to be able to say 'it's just about ensuring a fair process'.
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I did read the article. This was never going to be "an impeachment vote". Ever. It was always a vote to open the public portion of the impeachment proceedings. No one walked anything back. The article is misleading and you still haven't explained how you made such a wild leap in thought.
 
Fishking said:
Umm hmmm....maybe. They might even just wait until just before the election to have maximum political effect so there isn't time to mount a sufficient rebuttal to the bogus claims.
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Maybe. All signs indicate, however, that the Democrats understand public perception about this whole impeachment thing. The bases of both parties are rabid, irrational, and just about irrelevant. You, for example, have already dismissed the claims, which don't even exist yet in the form of impeachment articles, as bogus. The rest of the country is wary about the process and far less engaged in it. Democrats know that if they botch this, moderates and independents will reelect Trump. That's why Republicans are so desperate to delegitimize the process before a case is even presented to the public. If all of this is simply a political stunt, Democrats will be punished for it.
 
Fishking said:
Abuse of power is an opinion, not a crime. Where did the obstruction of justice happen? Be specific beyond just levying a claim.
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Not really, in fact one if the charges against Nixon was abuse of power. How about ordering anyone in his administration to not comply with Congressional order to come before then an answer questions, sounds like clear cut obstruction to me and to refuse can be punished with jail time.
 
Nalu said:
I did read the article. This was never going to be "an impeachment vote". Ever. It was always a vote to open the public portion of the impeachment proceedings. No one walked anything back. The article is misleading and you still haven't explained how you made such a wild leap in thought.
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OK. I spelled it out for you. It's not a 'wild leap'. Pelosi was trying to do something that would allow both factions to frame it how they wanted. It was framed as 'holding the vote Republicans wanted' - even though it's not required. She and the house majority leader clearly had to dial back the rhetoric to keep from spooking some Democrats who do not want to go on the record as pushing impeachment.
 
dcsports said:
OK. I spelled it out for you. It's not a 'wild leap'. Pelosi was trying to do something that would allow both factions to frame it how they wanted. It was framed as 'holding the vote Republicans wanted' - even though it's not required. She and the house majority leader clearly had to dial back the rhetoric to keep from spooking some Democrats who do not want to go on the record as pushing impeachment.
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That isn't what happened at all. Read a few more articles about what happened from other sources. The Washington Examiner spun the story. What you just described never happened.
 
Fishking said:
Abuse of power is an opinion, not a crime. Where did the obstruction of justice happen? Be specific beyond just levying a claim.
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Abuse of power is a crime. Obstruction of justice is a crime. Extortion is a crime. Bribery is a crime. And above all that is the sleazy lowlife behind-the-scenes machinations of Trump and his toadies including his personal lawyer.

The smart money knew that trump would drain the swamp and replace it with his very own cesspool.
 
Nalu said:
That isn't what happened at all. Read a few more articles about what happened from other sources. The Washington Examiner spun the story. What you just described never happened.
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Surely you don't expect accuracy in what amounts to pure partisan spin?
 
Cougarbear said:
What alleged crime? There is no crime. They are fishing and coming up with old boots. And, they are now looking like communists. At least the leadership of the Democrats. I say, keep on going because Trump will never be removed from office and will win by a landslide in 2020 with Republicans taking back the House and getting more representation in the Senate. Keep on looking like fools.
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If Trump conditioned aid to Ukraine on their opening an investigation on Biden, it's a crime. What part of that passed you by?

"They are looking like communists"? Really? Takes me back to the 1950s. Thanks for the nostalgia trip. That said, I don't underestimate the ability of democrats to lose elections.
 
Jonsa said:
Surely you don't expect accuracy in what amounts to pure partisan spin?
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No, I don't. I just wish that people knew what it was when they were looking at it. That other poster seems to me to actually believe his version of events. The misinformation is so pervasive that he appears to genuinely believe a complete fabrication. I just want people to start thinking again ffs.
 
Casca XV said:
Name the crime?
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A common misconception is that the president can only be impeached for violating a criminal law.

Alexander Hamilton explained the causes for impeachment:

those offenses which proceed from the misconduct of public men, or in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated POLITICAL, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself.

Source: Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist, and the Power of Impeachment
 
Deuce said:
Right wingers literally think you have to vote on an article of impeachment before you can legally investigate the alleged crime, it's ****ing bizarre.
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Democrats have been coming up with alleged crimes for three years now.
 
Casper said:
Abuse of Power and Obstruction if Justice to name just two, before it is said and done I have no doubt more will be added. Will the Senate convict, nope, they don't have the backbone, will the People have their say in 12 months, count on it.
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There's been a nonstop list for three years now coming from the Democrats. Obama abused his power so badly as president that even the Supreme Court voted 9-0 that Obama abused his power. Was Obama impeached?
 
Nalu said:
No, I don't. I just wish that people knew what it was when they were looking at it. That other poster seems to me to actually believe his version of events. The misinformation is so pervasive that he appears to genuinely believe a complete fabrication. I just want people to start thinking again ffs.
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So your argument is that your sources are correct, and someone else's source is wrong.

Do you know how weak an argument that is?
 
zimmer said:
Well... they’re behaving like it’s a 3rd World Banana Republic.

Nixon and Clinton impeachments started with crimes... Trump... no crime.

Seems they fear something and seek to extend their Soviet styled Kangaroo Court. From what I learned yesterday in the DP polls, this will please many Leftists.

View attachment 67267207
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This coup started with the collusion lie and has been underway since Hillary lost. Clearly the rich and powerful are upset their bought and paid for party puppet lost. It would be nice if they actually had something better than a president looking into corruption as a crime.
 
ocean515 said:
So your argument is that your sources are correct, and someone else's source is wrong.

Do you know how weak an argument that is?
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What? I really don't get you. You keep falling into threads like a bull in a china shop, lobbing lazy insults or mischaracterizing whatever you're trying to discuss, and spewing thoughtless, partisan trash. I'm discussing the thread topic. Try it sometime.
 
Deuce said:
Right wingers literally think you have to vote on an article of impeachment before you can legally investigate the alleged crime, it's ****ing bizarre.
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Good god!!! Are you that uninformed? Try ready up on the 1998 impeachment, which was run like the 1973 impeachment. The inquiry itself was voted on and approved. Then it went to committee. In 1998 they went to the guy that wrote the rules in 1973, and then approved them.
 
Why? He's just following the guidance of "know your audience". "Speak to a fool according to his folly" also comes to mind. The House impeachment job is a put-up job. It's a verdict in search of a process.

Nalu said:
What? I really don't get you. You keep falling into threads like a bull in a china shop, lobbing lazy insults or mischaracterizing whatever you're trying to discuss, and spewing thoughtless, partisan trash. I'm discussing the thread topic. Try it sometime.
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SDET said:
Why? He's just following the guidance of "know your audience". "Speak to a fool according to his folly" also comes to mind. The House impeachment job is a put-up job. It's a verdict in search of a process.
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You make as much sense as ocean515 does. Why don't the two of you go eat paint chips together or something?

I have no interest in trying to change your mind about the impeachment. People like you, on both sides of the issue, who have already made up your minds are pretty much irrelevant to the process.
 
Nickyjo said:
If Trump conditioned aid to Ukraine on their opening an investigation on Biden, it's a crime. What part of that passed you by?

"They are looking like communists"? Really? Takes me back to the 1950s. Thanks for the nostalgia trip. That said, I don't underestimate the ability of democrats to lose elections.
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No, that is not a crime. It may not be the best thing to do, but every President has made conditions for foreign aid upon countries. And, the investigation that Trump referred to in the Transcript of the phone call was the investigation on why the Prosecutor of Hunter Biden's company, Burisma was stopped and the investigator fired? If Joe Biden is caught up in this corruption of the Ukraine and Hunter Biden, that's a good thing! To know the Vice President of the United States was strong-arming the Ukraine to get the Ukraine to stop investigating his son. Isn't that a good thing? There is no quid pro quo in the phone call. And, because Schiff didn't like Trump conditioning assistance for the money doesn't make it a crime. In fact, the President of Ukraine in the news conference with Trump was asked that question if he was being strong-armed by Trump. And, the President of the Ukraine said absolutely NOT! If the President of the Ukraine understood clearly their was no strong-arming, then what is your problem? Thus, there is no crime. And, if there was a crime, the vote today would have been an actual vote to impeach, not to set up another round of bogus hearings.
 
Nalu said:
What? I really don't get you. You keep falling into threads like a bull in a china shop, lobbing lazy insults or mischaracterizing whatever you're trying to discuss, and spewing thoughtless, partisan trash. I'm discussing the thread topic. Try it sometime.
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This was your post that I commented on:

No, I don't. I just wish that people knew what it was when they were looking at it. That other poster seems to me to actually believe his version of events. The misinformation is so pervasive that he appears to genuinely believe a complete fabrication. I just want people to start thinking again ffs.
​

How should someone interpret that? You state you can't believe people don't see things the way you see them.

Guess what, they aren't required to.

BTW, show me the insult.
 
Nalu said:
Maybe. All signs indicate, however, that the Democrats understand public perception about this whole impeachment thing. The bases of both parties are rabid, irrational, and just about irrelevant. You, for example, have already dismissed the claims, which don't even exist yet in the form of impeachment articles, as bogus. The rest of the country is wary about the process and far less engaged in it. Democrats know that if they botch this, moderates and independents will reelect Trump. That's why Republicans are so desperate to delegitimize the process before a case is even presented to the public. If all of this is simply a political stunt, Democrats will be punished for it.
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I never said the claims were for sure bogus. I've only stated that the entire process that the Dems are doing is bogus. They've been looking for a reason to gin up an impeachment since 2016, and there is no denying that. That means this entire thing has been done in bad faith. So far as the claims, even if we accept them to be 100% true, they pale in comparison to what Trump faced in 2016 so trying to impeach for that just falls very flat.
 
Casper said:
Not really, in fact one if the charges against Nixon was abuse of power. How about ordering anyone in his administration to not comply with Congressional order to come before then an answer questions, sounds like clear cut obstruction to me and to refuse can be punished with jail time.
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1. You've still not demonstrated that "abuse of power" is anything but a statement of opinion. Which legal statute was broken?

2. So far as obstruction of justice, the Congress isn't the Justice Department. That's in the executive branch. They can be held in contempt of Congress, which is a pretty big *yawn* and not unprecedented to happen without recourse.
 
Jonsa said:
Abuse of power is a crime. Obstruction of justice is a crime. Extortion is a crime. Bribery is a crime. And above all that is the sleazy lowlife behind-the-scenes machinations of Trump and his toadies including his personal lawyer.

The smart money knew that trump would drain the swamp and replace it with his very own cesspool.
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You say lots of things but they are still just words. What legal statute does "abuse of power" fall under? What is being obstructed? Who was bribed? Who was extorted?
 
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