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Ellen's gets devasted by a remix of her Bush'splanation

Ikari said:
I want to get to a point to where the People can actually control the government and push for better actions and decisions. We cannot do that when ignorant hyperpartisan bull**** rules the day.
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So if you participate in the white-washing of people who shouldn't be within a hundred miles of government, how does that benefit governance? Follow your logic to its logical conclusion. You're creating a balance where none should exist.

But you'd rather we get Trump than to heal, I hear you.
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That's right. I want to break the ideology that corrupts government and/or causes the deaths of millions. I don't want to compromise with them. Sorry, that's just how I feel.
 
Ikari said:
I mean, Bush is the reason I don't vote Republican any longer. But I cannot say that I am so offended by an act of civility as to want to boycott someone over it.
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This is almost the textbook definition of being unable to put your money where your mouth is. :lol:
 
Dans La Lune said:
That's right. I want to break the ideology that corrupts government and/or causes the deaths of millions. I don't want to compromise with them. Sorry, that's just how I feel.
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Pretty sure Trump doesn't break any ideology that corrupts government, but good job I suppose. Enjoy the Trump Presidency. We've got him because of "uncompromising" folk who refuse to see other humans as human.
 
Ikari said:
Pretty sure Trump doesn't break any ideology that corrupts government, but good job I suppose. Enjoy the Trump Presidency. We've got him because of "uncompromising" folk who refuse to see other humans as human.
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Okay there, Joe Manchin. Lets all get along.

And to correct you, Trump exists because the so-called left has been too willing to compromise. Obama was the compromiser-in-chief. Hillary was more of the same and people got tired of the 'center' moving further and further to the right.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Okay there, Joe Manchin. Lets all get along.

And to correct you, Trump exists because the so-called left has been too willing to compromise. Obama was the compromiser-in-chief. Hillary was more of the same and people got tired of the 'center' moving further and further to the right.
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Trump is here because Obama was black and because small towns are dying due to technology change. This is a nativist population that wants their old way of life back which was white and local.

Actual policy really had nothing to do with it.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Okay there, Joe Manchin. Lets all get along.

And to correct you, Trump exists because the so-called left has been too willing to compromise. Obama was the compromiser-in-chief. Hillary was more of the same and people got tired of the 'center' moving further and further to the right.
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Obama wasn't a good President, more of the same status quo, as was Hillary. And Trump did exploit that, and the fact that Hillary couldn't drum up excitement and support. But the anger and hatred on the left and right is what gets Trump to stay and keeps his supporters supporting him. It's why intelligence cannot rule.

I don't want another Dark Ages, and as such, I cannot support the ignorant, holier-than-thou, angry crowd so bent on social punishment that they cannot accept other people or ideas.

The Republic is built on compromise, it's United We Stand.

So I will not support the idiots who would rather divide us and have us fall. They are idiots, and I will call them idiots. It is time that we stop celebrating the idiots. It's gotten us no where good.
 
A man who led the charge to amend the constitution to deny her her civil rights isnt really friendly, with that said, i dont really mind her friendly attitude. She might have a reason for forgiving him.
 
Ikari said:
Obama wasn't a good President, more of the same status quo, as was Hillary. And Trump did exploit that, and the fact that Hillary couldn't drum up excitement and support. But the anger and hatred on the left and right is what gets Trump to stay and keeps his supporters supporting him. It's why intelligence cannot rule.

I don't want another Dark Ages, and as such, I cannot support the ignorant, holier-than-thou, angry crowd so bent on social punishment that they cannot accept other people or ideas.

The Republic is built on compromise, it's United We Stand.

So I will not support the idiots who would rather divide us and have us fall. They are idiots, and I will call them idiots. It is time that we stop celebrating the idiots. It's gotten us no where good.
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I think Obama was a good president, such that he's a genuinely good person; a good family man; was virtually scandal free; who acted in good faith to compromise with the opposing party. History shows that he was a fool for doing this because the more Obama tried to compromise, the further the Republicans moved to the right. That's the history and legacy of the the Obama presidency. He was an ideal president for an ideal world, not the real world.

Here's an idea: The left actually fights for what it believes in, has moral clarity, and compromise is brought to the real center, not the phoney-baloney center where Ronald Reagan is worship as a god.

You chase the center, you get Joe Manchin. You bring the center to you, you get Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren -- or maybe someone better. The 'rational center' is then not appeasing war criminals to get along, it's in achieving good governance. It's called strategy.

You fight for nothing, you get Trump. You cede every argument to get along, you get Trump.

 
Dans La Lune said:
I think Obama was a good president, such that he's a genuinely good person; a good family man; was virtually scandal free; who acted in good faith to compromise with the opposing party. History shows that he was a fool for doing this because the more Obama tried to compromise, the further the Republicans moved to the right. That's the history and legacy of the the Obama presidency. He was an ideal president for an ideal world, not the real world.

Here's an idea: The left actually fights for what it believes in, has moral clarity, and compromise is brought to the real center, not the phoney-baloney center where Ronald Reagan is worship as a god.

You chase the center, you get Joe Manchin. You bring the center to you, you get Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren -- or maybe someone better. The 'rational center' is then not appeasing war criminals to get along, it's in achieving good governance. It's called strategy.

You fight for nothing, you get Trump. You cede every argument to get along, you get Trump.

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Obama drone-bombed the **** out of people, killed quite a few civilians. He continued and built upon the wars Bush started. I thought you hated "murderers" and "war criminals"

lol

That's the problem with hyperpartisans, they'll never see their own side for what it is, but end of day, y'all are practically the same. But they're so caught up in their righteous anger that they can't see the forest for the trees. Things get so divided that the parties play the divide and play the People.

And you're not likely getting Warren, you're most likely getting Biden. Good job being played. But I hope all that righteous anger was worth it.
 
tacomancer said:
People should leave Ellen alone, befriending people who have different views than you is fundamentally ok and healthy.
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Absolutely. Michelle Obama and George W are friends. No one jumped all over her.
 
Ellen and George both showed a lot of class. Classy people are intelligent enough to know that not all people share their values. Classy people use civil behavior when interacting with others. Class is something that some on this board definitely don't have. I noted the same behavior at the Trump rally in Minnesota. People so out of control that they attacked others and police. People who take politics this serious are mentally unbalanced. They need to stop drinking the koolaid. They are not mentally strong enough to differentiate between hype and fact. Hate is a trait of the unintelligent. They lack the intelligence and maturity to know how to represent their views. This is the type of behavior we saw from the Nazis and KKK.
 
MrWonka said:
This isn't an argument over Pizza toppings or which one of The Beatles is our favorite(George Harrison forever baby). George W. Bush started an unjust war for absolutely no reason that resulted in the murder, yes I said Murder, of over 30,000 human beings most of which whom were never a threat to the United States of America in any way shape or form.

Bush did everything in his power to prevent Ellen from marrying the love of her life. That's not a difference of opinion. That's an assault on her life, liberty and pursuit of her happiness.

I realize that with how awful this current administration has been it may make the previous one seem not so bad, but Ellen is one of the most beloved leaders of the LBGTQ community and for her to normalize Bush by making him seem like the kind of guy you'd like to hang out and watch football with was not okay.

I realize that it may seem harmless and significant to you, but this is how extremist get to power. They slowly push the needle of what is acceptable further and further their way over time. In the year 2000 the middle was in between Gore and Bush. Today somehow the middle is to the Right of Bush. The middle in this country should be somewhere between Bernie and Biden not anywhere close to Bush and anything you do to normalize him or make him seem perfectly okay is unacceptable.
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The Dems supported this war. Everyone seems to forget that.
 
bomberfox said:
He pushed for an amendment to define her out of being able to marry who she loves.
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With the caveat of civil unions via states, something most Republicans did not support.
 
Carleen said:
The Dems supported this war. Everyone seems to forget that.
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It's easy to forget when you've removed intelligence, logic, and reason. Which is the goal of hyperpartisan emotional reaction. The Dems did support those wars. And for those complaining about how bad Bush was as a "war criminal", Congress could exert some level of control and never did. And to claim Bush is a war criminal but Obama was a good president purposefully moves to overlook that Obama expanded the wars and that he killed many civilians in all his drone bombings he loved so much. But ignorance allows people to make these claims. Ignore the failures of their own side, dehumanize the other.

It's how we ended with Trump and why, even though it's so glaringly obvious that he is such a terrible President, people will continue to support him.

And so long as we embrace ignorance and hatred, we will just continue down this path.
 
Ikari said:
Obama drone-bombed the **** out of people, killed quite a few civilians. He continued and built upon the wars Bush started. I thought you hated "murderers" and "war criminals"
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That's actually an excellent point. Lets unpack it. Obama -- in adopting a centrist, conventional, lets-all-get-along approach to foreign policy in America -- continued the very trend that Bush initiated. Obama did a lot of good in foreign policy (Iran Nuclear Deal), but is also responsible for some outrageous policies like drone strikes -- which killed hundreds, if not thousands, of innocent people. Because Obama didn't kill millions of people, and he was genuinely fighting terrorism, I kinda gave him a pass in evaluating the totality of his character.

Which, by the way, doesn't benefit your argument that Bush's atrocities should be white-washed in order to get along and be civil. It benefits my argument that the centrist-chasing approach to politics pollutes everything.
 
Carleen said:
The Dems supported this war. Everyone seems to forget that.
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Cheney and Rumsfeld cooked the intelligence to get their support, lets not forget. But yes, many Dems did support the Iraq War. Thankfully, Dem is not synonymous with liberal or progressive.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Cheney and Rumsfeld cooked the intelligence to get their support, lets not forget. But yes, many Dems did support the Iraq War. Thankfully, Dem is not synonymous with liberal or progressive.
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So do you agree that Ellen should not be chastised for having a conversation with George W?
 
Ikari said:
And so long as we embrace ignorance and hatred, we will just continue down this path.
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What is your strategy for improving the political discourse and ultimately achieving a better government? Give me a bullet-point that doesn't involve being civil for the sake of civility.
 
Carleen said:
So do you agree that Ellen should not be chastised for having a conversation with George W?
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Nope. She said she is friends with Bush and equates the Iraq War to wear fur. It's a disgusting analogy, and her association with Bush is a disgusting association. But it's ultimately her choice.
 
Dans La Lune said:
That's actually an excellent point. Lets unpack it. Obama -- in adopting a centrist, conventional, lets-all-get-along approach to foreign policy in America -- continued the very trend that Bush initiated. Obama did a lot of good in foreign policy (Iran Nuclear Deal), but is also responsible for some outrageous policies like drone strikes -- which killed hundreds, if not thousands, of innocent people. Because Obama didn't kill millions of people, and he was genuinely fighting terrorism, I kinda gave him a pass in evaluating the totality of his character.

Which, by the way, doesn't benefit your argument that Bush's atrocities should be white-washed in order to get along and be civil. It benefits my argument that the centrist-chasing approach to politics pollutes everything.
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Obama was Status Quo, he was just another Bush, just another Clinton. Push the Infinity War, feed the Machine, grow the government. He killed a lot of people, a lot of civilians. But it's interesting that you give him a pass. You give him a pass, not because he wasn't drone bombing civilians to ash, but because he's on your side. The casualties under Bush are hard to say, the estimates vary wildly. I expect you just cherry picked the highest one.

But Obama did nothing to end the wars, we expanded into new theaters and used new tech. Dollars to donuts, Trump is drone bombing someone somewhere now, but we're all caught up in our hate of each other to pay much mind.

You hate the other side, but refuse to hold your own side accountable and in the end we end up getting a rinse and repeat and the proliferation of the status quo.
 
Ikari said:
Obama was Status Quo, he was just another Bush, just another Clinton. Push the Infinity War, feed the Machine, grow the government. He killed a lot of people, a lot of civilians. But it's interesting that you give him a pass. You give him a pass, not because he wasn't drone bombing civilians to ash, but because he's on your side. The casualties under Bush are hard to say, the estimates vary wildly. I expect you just cherry picked the highest one.
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We know it's over a million. What number are you happy with?

But Obama did nothing to end the wars, we expanded into new theaters and used new tech. Dollars to donuts, Trump is drone bombing someone somewhere now, but we're all caught up in our hate of each other to pay much mind.

You hate the other side, but refuse to hold your own side reliable and in the end we end up getting a rinse and repeat and the proliferation of the status quo.
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So what is your solution, now that you feel that Obama and Bush are exactly equal, and I am just as bad as the most partisan Trump supporter? Put some meat on the bone. Come on, lets hear it. I can take it.
 
Dans La Lune said:
No one is telling Ellen anything other than that she's disgusting. She gets to decide who to be friends with. That's her choice. Surely you understand that consequences of your personal choices, libertarian.
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What you see as "consequences" are really nothing more than a bunch of lunatics soiling their undergarments on Twitter.

Seriously, why would any rational thinking adult care what a bunch of hysterical bed-wetters are yammering about on social media?
 
Dans La Lune said:
That's cool, you've already expressed that you want to get along with war-criminals to close the partisan divide. I hear you.
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Boo hoo hoo.
Grow up.
 
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