San Francisco Labels NRA a ‘Domestic Terrorism Organization

Moderate Right said:

List the things the right stands for that you agree with.

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Why??

What is the point??

haymarket said:

Trump has hijacked the political environment with his position as President and head of the Party he represents. He wields far far far more power and influence that anyone else in our nation. Trump sets the table that everyone else eats at.

I do hate Trump for what he had done to this nation and to our people and people around the world who he has hurt. That is very sane and very rational.

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People who are insane believe they are sane and very rational.

haymarket said:

Why??

What is the point??

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The point is, you can't list any. Which proves you are uber-partisan and not a reasonable person at all and are intolerant of all right wing policies.

Moderate Right said:

People who are insane believe they are sane and very rational.

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Hate of Trump is very sane and very rational and very well founded. Any patriotic American understands this perfectly.

Hat of something very bad is a very positive emotion.

Moderate Right said:

The point is, you can't list any. Which proves you are uber-partisan and not a reasonable person at all and are intolerant of all right wing policies.

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Why should I do this? When you say JUMP I do not respond HOW HIGH?

You cannot even explain why I should.

Moderate Right said:

The point is, you can't list any. Which proves you are uber-partisan and not a reasonable person at all and are intolerant of all right wing policies.

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What is the point in me spending time to list things for you which do not have anything to do with the topic of this thread?

Lucky 1 said:

And I'd label the San Francisco Board of Supervisors a bunch of idiots!

California has some nations most restrictive gun laws and yet gun violence is about the highest anywhere!

And the NRA??? I'd say they are America's premier civil rights organization!

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You'd be very wrong. The evidence is clear. The NRA is an obvious business, and much less the civil rights organization you wish them to be. Aside from the economic bond between gun manufacturers and the NRA:

1) Why does the NRA care so much about an 18 year old's right to purchase guns, but less so about his ability to carry from state to state?

2) Why did the NRA describe Wal-Mart's recent decisions as shameful and that it would hurt business?

Clearly, even the NRA isn't really trying to hide this anymore. That's the price of extremism. Eventually, all the BS get's scraped off and reveals so much truth that deniers are left creating their own personal illusions to cling. Another is FOX News and how even Donald Trump chastised it for not supporting him more than it does.

MSgt said:

You'd be very wrong. The evidence is clear. The NRA is an obvious business, and much less the civil rights organization you wish them to be. Aside from the economic bond between gun manufacturers and the NRA:

1) Why does the NRA care so much about an 18 year old's right to purchase guns, but less so about his ability to carry from state to state?

2) Why did the NRA describe Wal-Mart's recent decisions as shameful and that it would hurt business?

Clearly, even the NRA isn't really trying to hide this anymore. That's the price of extremism. Eventually, all the BS get's scraped off and reveals so much truth that deniers are left creating their own personal illusions to cling. Another is FOX News and how even Donald Trump chastised it for not supporting him more than it does.

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And in fact, when I point out that the NRA is a business and a lobbyist for the arms manufacturing industry, gun people have shifted from denial of this point to "So what?"

Moderate Right said:

The point is, you can't list any. Which proves you are uber-partisan and not a reasonable person at all and are intolerant of all right wing policies.

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Do you even know what the right-wing policies are or even thought through the ideologies?

- Anti-Communism: Fine, but perverted when adding socialism into it. We live in a country where socialist programs gave us more economic and scientific power. Our government collects taxes, in which most goes back to the people in many different forms. This is a form of socialism, which essentially means that what the government collects from us still belongs to us, thus we regulate its direction. This is where our vote matters. It was the Cold War rhetoric that distorted these terms and projected the idea that they were one and the same.

- Capitalism: Fine, but blindly worshiped. We live in a country where the wealthy routinely practice socialism while telling you that you should pull up your boot straps and cling to capitalism. Or do you also get subsidies, bail-outs, and military assistance in foreign lands from the government? Do you own a few Senators who make policy and law in accordance to your investors demands?

- Free-market: Fine, but perverted when one argues on one hand that it is the most efficient way to promote economic growth while using the other hand to give tax-dollar subsidies to the rail road, the oil industry, and other corporations, rendering the market less free and less competitive.

- Fiscal Conservatism: Fine, if it actually existed. Republican Presidents throughout the twentieth and twenty-first centuries are on record for expanding government, expanding social systems, and increasing debt...while cutting taxes.

- Trickle-Down: Fine, if it wasn't a proven con-game during the Great Recession.

- Christian Ethics: Fine, but confused when supporting a serial adulterer who's economic status allows him to grab ***** whenever he feels like it. And taken too far when pushing religion through government or through secular education. So much for "freedom of religion." In fact, it looks Islamist.

- Anti-Abortion: Fine, until one tries to separate the idea that an innocent fetus can be aborted if it is the product of rape. And when one tries to introduce God into the whole thing, did God not know the rape baby in the womb? Will your soul go to hell because another person had an abortion?

- Anti-Homosexuality: Their marriage invalidates yours? This is just bigotry. Despite the Catholic Church and the Boy Scouts of America boasting molestation scandals from heterosexual men, it's the gay guy you fear?

- Nationalism: Fine, until it starts to look like Europe's xenophobic example. When Americans start dictating to other Americans that they aren't American enough, they begin to look dangerously like other societies who were afraid of cultural diversity. Nationalism should not be based on a fear of Mexicans, Muslims, or the Chinese. And patriotism should not be about blindly following anybody who hugs the flag.

- Veterans Organizations: Fine, but twisted up when choosing to blindly support a draft dodger who ridiculed a Silver Star winner and POW, tormented Gold Star families, dismissed a Veterans and a Memorial Day, Tweeted that dead Veterans would support him, and now takes money from the Pentagon.

- Anti-immigration: Let's not pretend here. Conservatives have historically always had a problem with immigration. Trying to push the "illegal" aspect of it is a farce. Especially when we consider that most illegals are expired Visa holders, not border hoppers, and that Trump himself declared that our immigration laws should be about taking only the brightest. Thus immigration is the issue, not so much "illegal" immigration.

- Traditionalism: Fine, until it becomes an obstacle to advancement and progress. Many religious conservatives oppose changes in traditional moral standards regarding sexuality and gender roles. They don't quite see how forcing others to live in accordance to their religion is the opposite of freedom and liberty.

- Anti-Environmentalism: Um..because you people live on Mars?!


There seems to be a lot of "anti" in right wing politics. Strange, for a side of the political spectrum that likes to think that only they embody liberty and freedom. Right-wing politics is a disaster of contradiction because the people that cling dearly to the idea of them refuse to think beyond the bumper sticker. The only thing that might be pure, in terms of right-wing politics, is how one defines his hatred for "the left." That alone seems to be the only unifying standard for membership anymore.

Cardinal said:

And in fact, when I point out that the NRA is a business and a lobbyist for the arms manufacturing industry, gun people have shifted from denial of this point to "So what?"

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It's like everything else. One after another, right-wing ideologies have been proven busts and their only responses along the way was to deny. And now that the evidence of such things, such as...

- NeoCon impractical dreams
- Global Warming science
- Trickle-Down economics
- FOX News as "fair & balanced"
- and now the NRA as a benevolent civil right's organization

...have proven to be exactly what most have always declared, they've gone from being able to deny it all to giving in and saying "so what." They are trapped within that good 'ole conservative basic - traditionalism. This is why they chose to blindly follow a man who promised to turn back the clock on everything, to restore a mythical golden age, and was determined to flip off the world. Their only real defense for Donald Trump comes to either "technically, it's not illegal" to whining about a man who hasn't been President for three years. This is what they have chosen to reduce themselves to. And now all of these escalating mass shootings even threatens their obnoxious death grips on the Second Amendment as a document handed to them by God Himself. With even FOX News personalities, who go out of their way to play partisan politics in their presentations, seeking to defend themselves against Trump's accusation that they don't support him enough, I believe that Conservatives are realizing now how easily manipulated they were and that their irrational hatred of "the left" is pretty much all they have left.

ludin said:

this is a false narrative.
there are currently 393m guns in the US.

In 2018 there were 47,220 gun incidents

11,984 resulted in deaths. this is excluding suicide.

of those the majority of them dealt with either drugs, or gangs or some other illegal activity by
the people using them.

i would say about 3k of those were defensive use of a gun so that leaves us with
only about 8,894 deaths which are either drug related or gang related.

So, it does appear that america is pretty safe with all those guns unless you are involved in some sort
of criminal activity in which raises the likely hood you will be shot.

all from the FBI.

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Your analysis is as worthless as the local gun laws are. Who am I going to believe, you or my lying eyes?

mrjurrs said:

Your analysis is as worthless as the local gun laws are. Who am I going to believe, you or my lying eyes?

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So you are saying that the FBI is lying? please prove it.
stats prove that america is pretty safe unless you are a criminal.
if you are a criminal then the likelihood that you will be shot goes up.

So yeah unless you tend to hang around high crime area's then you are safe in america.

MSgt said:

It's like everything else. One after another, right-wing ideologies have been proven busts and their only responses along the way was to deny. And now that the evidence of such things, such as...

- NeoCon impractical dreams
- Global Warming science
- Trickle-Down economics
- FOX News as "fair & balanced"
- and now the NRA as a benevolent civil right's organization

...have proven to be exactly what most have always declared, they've gone from being able to deny it all to giving in and saying "so what." They are trapped within that good 'ole conservative basic - traditionalism. This is why they chose to blindly follow a man who promised to turn back the clock on everything, to restore a mythical golden age, and was determined to flip off the world. Their only real defense for Donald Trump comes to either "technically, it's not illegal" to whining about a man who hasn't been President for three years. This is what they have chosen to reduce themselves to. And now all of these escalating mass shootings even threatens their obnoxious death grips on the Second Amendment as a document handed to them by God Himself. With even FOX News personalities, who go out of their way to play partisan politics in their presentations, seeking to defend themselves against Trump's accusation that they don't support him enough, I believe that Conservatives are realizing now how easily manipulated they were and that their irrational hatred of "the left" is pretty much all they have left.

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Deny what?
That free markets are the best way to lower cost improve production and increase wealth? check already found to be a huge amazing success.
Global warming is a theory of what can happen in a run away green house affect other than that that is about all that it is.
there is no such thing as trickle-down economics.
Actually fox is pretty balanced compared to MSNBC, CBS, CNN etc ...

Deny what again? half the stuff you mentioned was either incorrect or not valid.

Mass shootings are still only about 1% of all shootings that occur this is per the FBI.
well the 2nd amendment i just 1 of a very important part of our society that allows us to be a free society also known
as the bill of rights. if you put one right on the chopping block then all rights are on the chopping block.

I prefer to keep my rights i would assume that you would agree then again maybe not.

The only people that spew hate are leftists devoid of facts or anything else so your pointing your finger at the wrong group.

ludin said:

So you are saying that the FBI is lying? please prove it.
stats prove that america is pretty safe unless you are a criminal.
if you are a criminal then the likelihood that you will be shot goes up.

So yeah unless you tend to hang around high crime area's then you are safe in america.

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This is obviously above your head, but you can't throw out random facts, say they are from the fbi and then challenge me to prove my point. You provided no source, you prove you are telling the truth. Didn't realize that all those people at walmart, a country music or garlic festival were criminals, or that they were considered high crime areas.

MSgt said:

You'd be very wrong. The evidence is clear. The NRA is an obvious business, and much less the civil rights organization you wish them to be. Aside from the economic bond between gun manufacturers and the NRA:

1) Why does the NRA care so much about an 18 year old's right to purchase guns, but less so about his ability to carry from state to state?

2) Why did the NRA describe Wal-Mart's recent decisions as shameful and that it would hurt business?

Clearly, even the NRA isn't really trying to hide this anymore. That's the price of extremism. Eventually, all the BS get's scraped off and reveals so much truth that deniers are left creating their own personal illusions to cling. Another is FOX News and how even Donald Trump chastised it for not supporting him more than it does.

Click to expand...

none of your factual assertions come close to backing up your arguments or conclusions

Cardinal said:

And in fact, when I point out that the NRA is a business and a lobbyist for the arms manufacturing industry, gun people have shifted from denial of this point to "So what?"

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the only people who claim the NRA is only or mainly a shill for gun makers are those who want to ban guns and are upset that the NRA opposes the socialist scum that those critics support

haymarket said:

Again, I provide four example for you. You simply reject them or even worse - you see those right wing positions as entirely normal because of your own skewed biases. And that is really scary.

Denial that Trump is a right winger and his policies are pushing the nation to the right is simply insanity. I would wast no more time trying to convince you that I would going into the local mental institution and trying to convince the self proclaimed Napoleon that he is not the rightful Emperor of France.

Is is like trying to grow roses on a busy airport tarmac. It just is a total waste of time.

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No one is denying that Trump is right wing, but his policies aren't pushing the country further right, as shown by the information I provided.

Can you prove otherwise?

eohrnberger said:

"Has the Republican Party Really Moved to the Right?"
Short answer is no, they haven't.
The Democrats, and other leftists, liberals, socialists and progressive, have moved to the hard, far, extremist left. Possibly all the way out to 'left out' field.

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Tell me something that can't be seen with the naked eye.
Decimalization of border crossing, healthcare for illegal immigrants, completely banning all guns along with a myriad of other things.

I just don't recognize my old party anymore.

Oborosen said:

No one is denying that Trump is right wing, but his policies aren't pushing the country further right, as shown by the information I provided.

Can you prove otherwise?

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What is the information you provided? All I saw you provide was one opinion which ignored his racial policies, his xenophobic immigration policies, his rolling back of environmental regulations, his embrace of the right wing NRA and refusal to adopt any reasonable gun polices, his climate denials, his attempt at abolishing health care for millions, his tax cuts for the rich, his trade wars, his weakening of our alliances pushing us toward isolationism, his embrace of authoritarianism in other nations - all those things pushing further to the right.

That is NOT information you provided. It is insanity for an opinion writer to deny reality.

ludin said:

Deny what?
That free markets are the best way to lower cost improve production and increase wealth? check already found to be a huge amazing success.

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Your wealth? Were your tax-cuts permanent or are you among the many in the Middle Class who is going to get bitch slapped with the rising debt? And our government seems to give a lot of subsidies and bail-outs for something called a "free-market." You deny, because you cling to a broken ideology that you never cared to even think through as your government consistently makes a joke of it right to your face.

ludin said:

Global warming is a theory of what can happen in a run away green house affect other than that that is about all that it is.

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You deny science, because it is inconvenient to your partisan politics. The evidence is painfully clear that this Global Warming period has almost everything to do with the Industrial Age, which is why the extreme measurements are unprecedented in the history of the world. And the pathetic thing is that the GOP/DNC once led the world in Global Warming awareness in the 1970s/80s before the GOP decided that political extremism against "the left" was the best way to serve their donors (I mean voters). And you allowed yourself to be led by the nose.

ludin said:

there is no such thing as trickle-down economics.

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Here, your need to deny is beyond pathetic. But as a FOX News viewer, I will just assume that you are ill informed. Trickle-down economics, championed by Ronald Reagan, also called trickle-down theory, refers to the economic proposition that taxes on businesses and the wealthy in society should be reduced as a means to stimulate business investment in the short term and benefit society at large in the long term. To make this simpler, the theory hinges on the notion that the wealthy are job creators and that all that tax-cut money will "trickle down" to regular folk. Reagan sincerely believed in it, but the Great Recession proved that it was a con game. Trillions remained un-invested by the wealthy, because expansion needs consumers, and government bailed-out banks and corporations laid people off while seizing their homes and small businesses. The fact that the GOP is behind the very public engineering of Trickle-Down economics, and that you claim that it doesn't exist, tells me and everyone reading that you haven't a clue about your Party's ideologies or what you even believe in <----This would be what is beyond pathetic.

But, what theory do you think Trump's permanent tax-cuts to the wealthy was based on? You deny, because it is in your partisan interests to deny or you sincerely are clueless.

ludin said:

Actually fox is pretty balanced compared to MSNBC, CBS, CNN etc ...

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Facts and truth don't need political balance. And you are very wrong:

2012 Study: They found that someone who watched only Fox News would be expected to answer 1.04 domestic questions correctly compared to 1.22 for those who watched no news at all.

2015 Study: A new study by Bruce Bartlett, a conservative economist, top official in the H.W. Bush administration and domestic policy adviser to Ronald Reagan, concluded that Fox News viewers tend to be less informed and engage in "self-brainwashing."

2016 Study: William Poundstone has done similar surveys, both of current events and with more general knowledge. "In my research too, Fox News viewers scored the lowest of over 30 popular news sources (though Fox viewers did at least score better than those saying they didn't follow the news)."

These are separate studies, spread out and conducted over years, and routinely coming to the same conclusions. And FOX News sits much further from center and much closer to "propoganda" than the leans of those you listed. You deny, because your need for partisan politics makes you choose to be misinformed.

ludin said:

Deny what again? half the stuff you mentioned was either incorrect or not valid.

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You deny everything, and all I presented was correct. It's right there for all to read and mock. Maybe use the links to educate yourself beyond your apparent personal need to play partisan games. But given that you even feel the need to deny the existence of Trickle-Down economics, something the entire membership of the GOP is aware of, you can't be bothered with pesky things like facts.

mrjurrs said:

This is obviously above your head, but you can't throw out random facts, say they are from the fbi and then challenge me to prove my point. You provided no source, you prove you are telling the truth. Didn't realize that all those people at walmart, a country music or garlic festival were criminals, or that they were considered high crime areas.

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I quoted you facts straight from the FBI so please tell us what about those stats you do not understand or have issues with?
Yes it is up to you to prove your point. If you can't support your argument with something other than your opinion then you didn't really have an
argument or your opinion is wrong.

What you are talking about are anomalies they are not the norm. they simply get more news than other shootings.
Mass shootings only makes up about 1-3% of all gun violence in america. Then again the definition of a mass shooting is
where 4 or more people are shot. that is a typical drive by in a gang area.

again this is per the FBI. you are using appeal to emotion fallacies that do not correspond to facts.
they are not random facts. they are FBI statistics on gun violence.

ludin said:

I quoted you facts straight from the FBI so please tell us what about those stats you do not understand or have issues with?
Yes it is up to you to prove your point. If you can't support your argument with something other than your opinion then you didn't really have an
argument or your opinion is wrong.

What you are talking about are anomalies they are not the norm. they simply get more news than other shootings.
Mass shootings only makes up about 1-3% of all gun violence in america. Then again the definition of a mass shooting is
where 4 or more people are shot. that is a typical drive by in a gang area.

again this is per the FBI. you are using appeal to emotion fallacies that do not correspond to facts.
they are not random facts. they are FBI statistics on gun violence.

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when gun banners talk about specific mass shootings-they only talk about ones perpetrated by white men, who use modern sporting rifles. However, when they talk about the need to ban "assault weapons" they include every shooting where 4 or more people are injured, and then pretend most of those involved the same type of shooter and the same type of firearm

TurtleDude said:

none of your factual assertions come close to backing up your arguments or conclusions

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Say's one of the chief deniers on the website who can't tell fact from fiction thanks to your dedication to Fox News propaganda. I went ahead and informed ludin of the facts and truths about what I asserted, argued, and concluded.

And the pathetic thing here is that I make it obvious that my MO involves primary documentation, which I often provide so that others can educate themselves beyond their personal need to satisfy their obviously busted ideologies. Yet, still, people like you actually prefer your busted ideologies.

I have told you repeatedly, that your determination to see absolutely nothing done about these escalating mass shootings will eventually give the power to those who will do something extreme. You think San Francisco's little declaration is the last? We have already seen businesses since last year, and now Wal-Mart, jump on the bandwagon. Even your idiot representative in the White House has declared that the GOP is frightened of the NRA. This is not the ACLU. This is big business and the NRA acts as a conduit of funds from gun manufacturer to Republican Senator. In the meantime, the NRA tells you that they care about your rights? BS. They care about sales. This is the dip**** organization that argued against banning Bump Fires after the Vegas shooter shot hundreds, despite the fact that Bump Fires help shooters get around the National automatic gun laws/policies. But you will turn around and declare that "we should just enforce the laws we have," huh?

If the NRA was benevolent and cared more about your rights, they would work with politicians to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill/unstable and children, beyond writing up a pamphlet on safety. Give it another year and about ten more mass shootings. Who knows where we will be then as you continue your obtuse game that nothing is better than something. Your irresponsibility is what endangers my Right. YOU are the problem, not "the left" who, by the way, are also gun owners.

MSgt said:

Say's one of the chief deniers on the website who can't tell fact from fiction thanks to your dedication to Fox News propaganda. I went ahead and informed ludin of the facts and truths about what I asserted, argued, and concluded. And the pathetic thing here is that I merely pass on primary documentation that even you have access to if you ever cared to look beyond your personal need to satisfy your busted ideologies.

I have told you repeatedly, that your determination to see absolutely nothing done about these escalating mass shootings will eventually give the power to those who will do something extreme. You think San Francisco's little declaration is the last? We have already seen business since last year, and now Wal-Mart, jump on the bandwagon. Even your idiot representative in the White House has declared that the GOP is frightened of the NRA. This is not the ACLU. This is big business and the NRA acts as a conduit of funds from gun manufacturer to Republican Senator. In the meantime, the NRA tells you that they care about your rights? BS. They care about sales. This is the dip**** organization that argued against banning Bump Fires after the Vegas shooter shot hundreds, despite the fact that Bump Fires help shooters get around the National automatic gun laws/policies.

If the NRA was benevolent and cared more about your rights, they would work with politicians to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill/unstable and children, beyond writing up a pamphlet on safety. Give it another year and about ten more mass shootings. Who knows where we will be then as you continue your obtuse game that nothing is better than something. Your irresponsibility is what endangers my Right. YOU are the problem, not "the left" who are also gun owners.

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Yeah I know, you are mad that the NRA backs Republican and conservative candidates.

TurtleDude said:

when gun banners talk about specific mass shootings-they only talk about ones perpetrated by white men, who use modern sporting rifles. However, when they talk about the need to ban "assault weapons" they include every shooting where 4 or more people are injured, and then pretend most of those involved the same type of shooter and the same type of firearm

Click to expand...

Conflation is the key to hating fellow Americans. Lots and lots and lots of conflated, crisscrossing facts.