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Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

Checkerboard Strangler said:
The Hmong were clannish the first few years too but today their neighborhoods sparkle and they are fully integrated, and their kids go to the movies at Mall of America and go to the prom for their local schools, play sports and marry into different cultures.

They started arriving the year I left Minneapolis and since I've been back a few times I have noticed the striking difference in the once slummy run down neighborhoods they inherited.
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There you go injecting reality into the conversation again! It has, and likely always will be, that the first generation of immigrants of whatever nationality takes time to assimilate. The second generation is almost always completely assimilated. Haters gonna hate, and liars gonna lie, and, well... that's Trumpism for you.
 
Lisa said:
I thought that it was just me when I read it. I'm relieved to know that others feel the same way.
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All the posts are the same way. I think the software is just not sophisticated enough. It could be a translation thing. What's the Russian word for "Trollbot"?
 
Lisa said:
We are not a democracy because that is mob rule. We have democratic elections of representatives but even our elected representatives have checks and balances on their power. We the people cannot vote on issues because that is often tyranny of the majority when it occurs.
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It's as if you didn't read a single word of my response. Did your eyes glaze over or something?
I SAID THAT ATHENIAN DEMOCRACY (sometimes referred to as mob rule) WAS ONLY TRIED ONCE, 2500 YEARS AGO.
We ARE a democracy because democracy is implemented within the framework of a constitutional republic.
That is why the Constitution talks about democratic elections.

By the way, many states have issue referendum votes. Some states are even able to recall their governors in referendum elections.
So the people DO often vote on issues.


Checkerboard Strangler said:
Don't forget non-property owners. Only property owners were originally afforded the vote.
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Lisa said:
Banning people who are not employed would eliminate many veterans, retired or disabled, plus the people over 65 who are retired. The GOP is scared because they are losing their power and even their gerrymandering and voter ID nonsense isn't enough to protect their white male control of government power. Their support of equal rights is only words because when reality sets in they still want a few extra rights reserved for themselves, so while they support the appearance of equality they are still the apex of political and social power.
Most of these pricks haven't gotten over either the Inquisition or the US Civil War.
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That was sarcasm, I made the quip about property owners as sarcasm.
 
NWRatCon said:
There you go injecting reality into the conversation again! It has, and likely always will be, that the first generation of immigrants of whatever nationality takes time to assimilate. The second generation is almost always completely assimilated. Haters gonna hate, and liars gonna lie, and, well... that's Trumpism for you.
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I live in a predominantly hispanic neighborhood but about half the kids there struggle to speak Spanish, because it's mostly just their parents or maybe their abuelitos (little grandparents) who yell at them in Spanish.

Cheech and Chong even made fun of the phenomenon decades ago:

"Mexican Americans, they believe in education, so they go to nightschool, and take Spanish, and get a B"



:lamo :lamo :lamo

"No mames, guey!"
 
NWRatCon said:
All the posts are the same way. I think the software is just not sophisticated enough. It could be a translation thing. What's the Russian word for "Trollbot"?
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Троль ябот
 
Lisa said:
What are you suggesting that liberals reject? Is this another attempt to falsely claim that we support open borders? Would you prefer if the immigrants accepted into the US were only white people? Maybe instead of trying to preserve the white Christian majority, you could instead support the idea that all people are treated equally, regardless of race, creed color, gender, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability and other? Are conservatives scared of being equals in a multicultural society?

This concept seems to be driving much of the animus felt by Trump supporters.


White conservative males have treated others like dirt for the past 500+ years and you are terrified that others are going to do to you what you have been doing to them. maybe you should stop trying to keep others as second class citizens and treat them as you want to be treated. If you are a Christian, Jesus commands you to do this. Luke 6:31, Matthew 7:12. ......unless that passage is not included in the Trump bible.
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I'm not suggesting anything. I am saying liberal reject the evolution of mankind. Not everyone can live together. Not every "immigrant" from every country should become live in the United States.

On the other hand, any human living on the planet would be welcome, provided they understand what the United States is all about and want to live with that understanding.

There is a reason the evolution of the human species created Nations with protected and defined borders.
 
The Trump right has issued commands to all its brethren to continue pretending this is about "open borders" so that all rational discussion can be avoided.
 
SMTA said:
And you continue your lies and posting of garbage.
Your post reflects absolute ignorance of history - the immigrants who first populated the US were mostly poor and uneducated folks from all over the world looking for a chance to work hard in a new world.
As usual, you need to educate yourself prior to posting lies and garbage like this.
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Yea but those were white people like they are and are "genetically superior" in their racist minds. That is why "nationalism" is a racist concept at it's heart.
 
ocean515 said:
I'm not suggesting anything. I am saying liberal reject the evolution of mankind. Not everyone can live together. Not every "immigrant" from every country should become live in the United States.

On the other hand, any human living on the planet would be welcome, provided they understand what the United States is all about and want to live with that understanding.

There is a reason the evolution of the human species created Nations with protected and defined borders.
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What makes you think that people fleeing their own countries want to change ours into the country they fled? That make no sense. We are a country of immigrants who all share the same goal.
 
iguanaman said:
What makes you think that people fleeing their own countries want to change ours into the country they fled? That make no sense. We are a country of immigrants who all share the same goal.
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Did you read what I wrote?

Why did mankind evolve to create Nations and borders? What was the purpose?

What is the goal of someone fleeing their country? To be a citizen of the United States, or to get out of the hell they helped create? What are they going to change, so they don't repeat the same thing they did in the Nation they failed in?
 
Lisa said:
I thought that it was just me when I read it. I'm relieved to know that others feel the same way.
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A Christian Nation standing military force for a supreme swastika up Uranus court of "serve the Pope or die" that barely even batted an eye for Nazi Germany's Holocaust war criminals where killing 6 million + because Jews wouldn't abide by some fabricated misnomer of an immaculate conception is about as worthless to humanity after it's Christiananality pedophilia Islamophobia of killing 4 million + Muslims because Federal Lynching KKK churchstate of hate cops business with Al Qaeda Muslims which failed to nuke Temple Mount Israel on 9/11.
 
saltydancin said:
A Christian Nation standing military force for a supreme swastika up Uranus court of "serve the Pope or die" that barely even batted an eye for Nazi Germany's Holocaust war criminals where killing 6 million + because Jews wouldn't abide by some fabricated misnomer of an immaculate conception is about as worthless to humanity after it's Christiananality pedophilia Islamophobia of killing 4 million + Muslims because Federal Lynching KKK church-state of hate cops business with Al Qaeda Muslims which failed to nuke Temple Mount Israel on 9/11.
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Do you prefer vinaigrette, blue cheese or ranch dressing with your word salad?
 
On a serious note, I am of the opinion that the Republican party will right itself after Trump and return to its ordinary genteel sotto voce racist roots rather than the in-your-face kind that Trump and kind prefer. They will simply pretend that Trump never existed and they didn't coddle him throughout his term. They may spend some time in the wilderness (one can hope), but they have too many tools at their disposal (and while it applies, I didn't mean the tools on the federal bench) to keep themselves "viable" until fairness returns to our electoral system (if it can). I'm certainly not sanguine about it, but I am hopeful.
 
truthatallcost said:
This is the crux of the inability on behalf of liberals to understand that people are not the malleable clay that Marx said they were. We can't raise IQ with education. We can't impart our culture on immigrants whose cultures don't contain any similarities with ours.

Minneapolis is a perfect example of the inability of some cultures to assimilate. The Somalians living there prefer to keep to their own clannish neighborhoods, and are even at odds with the local African American community. One African American homicide detective said that it's virtually impossible for him to solve a crime if it occurs in a Somali neighborhood, because even though he has the same skin color as the people from that neighborhood, they consider him an outsider and refuse to speak to him. Race isn't the problem here, its culture.
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That is the American story/culture in a nutshell. Perhaps a little American history is in order. You don't seem to understand the concept of "melting pot"

Just about every national group that has immigrated to this country has begun the American experience living in a cultural ghetto. Ever spend any time in New York or San Fransisco or Miami? Each of those cities is rich with 1st generation Americans living with their cultural peers, half in America and half in their country of origin. Its the multiple communities that make city life rich; beginning with food and extending to cultural fairs and other events. By extension, it are these influences that make America unique and culturally rich.

This has been going on since America was born. Your criticisms of Minneapolis can be applied to Irish in New York and Boston, the Italians in New York and Philly, the Poles in Chicago and Milwaukee; the Germans in Cincinnati and Milwaukee, etc. Each group came to this country, settled with their own, enriching the inner city, while the 2nd and 3rd generations well integrated with the American tapestry, enriching our country.

America is not great because our homogeneous Angelo roots; it is great because of our heterogeneous international roots. There is no American culture other than our melting pot culture. As Reagan pointed out, only the French can be Frenchman, but anyone can be an American.

I am sorry that you are threatened by the unknown, but America has a 250 year history of successfully assimilating that unknown and being bigger, better and more powerful because of it. I suggest you take some comfort in our history.
 
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ocean515 said:
Did you read what I wrote?

Why did mankind evolve to create Nations and borders? What was the purpose?

What is the goal of someone fleeing their country? To be a citizen of the United States, or to get out of the hell they helped create? What are they going to change, so they don't repeat the same thing they did in the Nation they failed in?
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So when our own nation collapsed in the Great Depression, you blame the millions of Americans who suffered for it? People are looking for a better life and a system that supports it. That is what made America great and is what draws them here. So yes they come to be citizens and to take part in this great experiment. We need to be careful to not mess things up with toxic nationalism. It will lead to ruin.
 
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NWRatCon said:
Russian dressing, silly!
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I feel stupid for missing that.
I just noticed your signature. Are you a card-carrying member of the ACLU?
 
Master Debator said:
I'm not against borders though I hope for a day they are no longer needed.
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Then you're hopelessly naive yearning for the day when that kind of silly talk was in fashion.

I'm certainly not threatened by desperate poor people looking for safety and prosperity for them and their loved ones. I don't think we need borders to protect against them.
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More naive silly talk. Maybe you're just too young to know better and you don't think all those people you think are desperately poor and looking for safety and prosperity pouring through open borders affect you.

I'm not white. I'm Chinese, Indian, and Jamaican.
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Doesn't explain the av. Are you a poseur?
Sounds like you think you're Kamala Harris.
 
bubbabgone said:
Then you're hopelessly naive yearning for the day when that kind of silly talk was in fashion.



More naive silly talk. Maybe you're just too young to know better and you don't think all those people you think are desperately poor and looking for safety and prosperity pouring through open borders affect you.


Doesn't explain the av. Are you a poseur?
Sounds like you think you're Kamala Harris.
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Throughout the vast majority of human history, borders have simply not existed in the same sense that they do today. These days we think of borders as being clear and finite; immovable barriers defining which nation owns what land, and controlling who gets to travel where. But in reality this isn't how borders have historically functioned. Rather, they were much more transient, moving a few miles this way or that depending on which tribe, lord, or state had the biggest army, and the ability to administrate the area. The idea that borders should function to divide humans based upon national, cultural, or ethnic identity is a very modern one, within the last century and a half. Prior to this, borders simply did not exist the way we think of them now.
 
Yep. Immigrants are too loud and litter too much.
 
Lisa said:
I feel stupid for missing that.
I just noticed your signature. Are you a card-carrying member of the ACLU?
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I am indeed.
 
NWRatCon said:
I am indeed.
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I've been a member since 1992. I need to pay my annual dues. I love to show that little blue card because most people have never seen one. I love that it alwmost always gets a reaction when they see it in my purse.
 
Rufusrepublican said:
Yep. Immigrants are too loud and litter too much.
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You’ve evidently never been to a professional sporting event or attended the July 4th celebrations on the Mall.
 
Lisa said:
Do you prefer vinaigrette, blue cheese or ranch dressing with your word salad?
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Well thanks but prefer none from that burning Bush's 9/11 Al Qaeda health care patriot act. Still after waiting about 18 years for equal justice under law, which according to the nationalism of the supreme swastika up Uranus court of a Christian Nation where Christiananality pedophilia Islamophobia "death to the infidels" has become the 21st century national religion after their previous thieving US Constitution - old glory - old testament arsonists "serve the Pope or die" national religion autistic responses.
 
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