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Thread: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

  1. #11
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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    It is the most simplistic logic that if people are intensely anti-secular, sexist, xenophobic, intolerant, oppose many civil and human rights - that person will move our society, government and laws ever so slightly in that direction.

    Joko just described the people making laws in Alabama.

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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I directly addressed this charge at #2, and posted her comments in context so we can all read them for ourselves.

    In my own discussion, I also tried to give her comments their intended meaning. If you think I didn't, you can explain how if you want.
    Trying to give them their intended meaning, can be damnable in of itself. Her suggestions in context are just as fine as they are and the article doesn't even give voice to that.

    That is my issue. Vox has done this time and time again, mostly to suit their own means. Had anyone else covered this, I'd give it more premise. But as it stands, they're not doing any of this in good faith.
    Why do they run?
    Because they have no choice son, such is the way of cowards.
    But even a cornered rat, with no choice, will fight.
    Yes my son, and that should tell you more than you need to know about the coward.

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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Being a democracy, every person from another country and different background ultimately will affect our society, our government and our laws. It is the most simplistic logic that if people are intensely anti-secular, sexist, xenophobic, intolerant, oppose many civil and human rights - that person will move our society, government and laws ever so slightly in that direction.

    Bringing in uneducated and impoverished Somalians brings the values of Somalian culture, values and laws into our society, government and laws. That is how democracy works.

    Accordingly, who we should allow in are those who MOST are aligned to our core values, laws, rights and accepted moral codes and concepts of freedom and rights - including equality.
    The US is not now and never was a democracy. We are a constitutional republic with democratic elections of our representatives. We have always been a melting pot of races, cultures and religions. That is who makes us who we are. Our diversity is a strength and not a weakness.

    Do you have a problem with values that are not those of Archie Bunker? Maybe you would support a 3/5 of a vote for people who aren't old, white, male, evangelical bigots who commonly wear sheets?
    Last edited by Lisa; 07-21-19 at 01:16 AM.

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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa View Post
    The US is not now and never was a democracy. We are a constitutional republic with democratic elections of our representatives. We have always been a melting pot of races, cultures and religions. That is who makes us who we are. Our diversity is a strength and not a weakness.

    Do you have a problem with values that are not those of Archie Bunker? Maybe you would support a 3/5 of a vote for people who aren't old, white, male, evangelical bigots who commonly wear sheets?
    Suggesting that your opponent is a racist... yeah. That's a sound way to lose any sort of debate.
    Why do they run?
    Because they have no choice son, such is the way of cowards.
    But even a cornered rat, with no choice, will fight.
    Yes my son, and that should tell you more than you need to know about the coward.

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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa View Post
    The US is not now and never was a democracy. We are a constitutional republic with democratic elections of our representatives. We have always been a melting pot of races, cultures and religions. That is who makes us who we are. Our diversity is a strength and not a weakness.

    Do you have a problem with values that are not those of Archie Bunker? Maybe you would support a 3/5 of a vote for people who aren't old, white, male, evangelical bigots who commonly wear sheets?
    Archie Bunker? How old are you?

    I read somewhere that when they conducted a poll they were stunned to find that an overwhelming majority of Americans generally agreed with Archie Bunker. BUT, what, specifically about Archie Bunker are you referring to? I'm not familiar with the show. only general impressions said about it. I saw a funny clip of him talking about handing out guns for airline flights.

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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa View Post
    We have always been a melting pot of races, cultures and religions. That is who makes us who we are. Our diversity is a strength and not a weakness.
    People who recognize that we are a diverse nation and that the diversity is a strength tend to reject that we are or should be a "melting pot". Your first and third sentences above seem to be at odds?

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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa View Post
    Maybe you would support a 3/5 of a vote for people who aren't old, white, male, evangelical bigots who commonly wear sheets?
    Slaves never got 3/5 of a vote. They didn't vote at all.

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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Trying to give them their intended meaning, can be damnable in of itself. Her suggestions in context are just as fine as they are and the article doesn't even give voice to that.

    That is my issue. Vox has done this time and time again, mostly to suit their own means. Had anyone else covered this, I'd give it more premise. But as it stands, they're not doing any of this in good faith.
    How is my comment "objectionable?" How is me providing extensive context to her comments objectionable? I don't know what else you could possibly want, unless you're looking for an excuse to dismiss them.

    Maybe you can explain this for me: "The problem, as she points out in that quote, is that when you [adopt "cultural distance, the effect of that is you] favor whites and disfavor non-whites. So on the ground, in policy, in attitudes, 'cultural' nationalism looks pretty much identical to the white nationalism that no one wants to claim."
    Last edited by JasperL; 07-21-19 at 06:55 AM.

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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism - Vox



    I read this last night and thought it was an interesting article. It's clearly written from a 'liberal' perspective, but it really describes in clear terms the problem with "nationalism" in general and what amounts to in practice if not in theory 'white nationalism.'

    The quote above by Amy Wax is part of a larger one in which she says what she's after is 'cultural' nationalism, and that race isn't relevant. The problem, as she points out in that quote, is that when you do that you favor whites and disfavor non-whites. So on the ground, in policy, in attitudes, 'cultural' nationalism looks pretty much identical to the white nationalism that no one wants to claim.

    Anyway, anyone interested in the 'liberal' concerns with the 'nationalism' movement, either for them or against them, can read what I though was a pretty good summary of it here.
    Why is it that liberal socialist progressives don't believe the evolution of mankind?

    Why do nations exist?

    Why did the evolution of the human race lead to the creation of Nation States?

    What was the purpose and why did mankind create borders and the means to defend them?

    It seems this new extreme left has no connection to the history of mankind, and it reject evolution, which is surprising.

    Do they not realize that at no time in recorded history did peoples of all types and cultures live together peacefully in borderless lands?
    When you talk about the firm that produced the Steele reporting, the name of the firm that produced that was Fusion GPS. Is that correct?

    Im not familiar with that, Robert Mueller answered.

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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa View Post
    The US is not now and never was a democracy. We are a constitutional republic with democratic elections of our representatives. We have always been a melting pot of races, cultures and religions. That is who makes us who we are. Our diversity is a strength and not a weakness.

    Do you have a problem with values that are not those of Archie Bunker? Maybe you would support a 3/5 of a vote for people who aren't old, white, male, evangelical bigots who commonly wear sheets?
    The difference being that immigrants use to assimilate into American culture, before anti-American leftists concocted their multiculturalism nonsense in the 1970s. Now they flat out refuse to integrate into American culture, preferring to keep the culture they left behind in their former country. Including those antiquated and oppressive cultural values, like how the majority of middle-eastern countries treat women. They bring thier 12th century mentality into the US, refuse to assimilate into American society, and refuse to even acknowledge the founding principles of "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." The days of the US being a "melting pot" ended 40 years ago with the multiculturalism of the anti-American left.

    We already know the kinds of people the "Progressive" left want to import - anyone willing to kill Americans en masse. Which is why they were so keen when Obama promised to import tens of thousands of Syrian terrorists into the US.

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