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Thread: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

  1. #121
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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Calling Obama Kenyan was not racist... there are white Kenyans... it was stupid, or inaccurate though.

    Saying go back to the jungle or African Plains would be racist...
    The birthers called Obama a Kenyan because they claimed that he wasn't a American eligible to be POTUS. Trump was the leader of the birthers for years. That statement was a racist dog whistle.

  2. #122
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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Saying "send her home" is not racist. Just a fact.

    Did Trump ask for their endorsement? No? Then the fact that they did is irrelevant.
    If "send her home" means New York, Michigan, Minnesota or Massachusetts, then you are correct, it is a fact that they were duly elected from those respective states. As such, it is indeed not racist to suggest these honorable Americans return home to those states. Perhaps Trump is being most polite in his advocating they simply not be re-elected. "Send these honorable congressman back to their districts" he says.

    Of course, if he is implying some other place, like another country, which is not their home, then he is dismissing their American citizenship. In fact, he is suggesting they are not worthy of being citizens. To suggest a citizen is not worthy of American citizenship is indeed racist/bigoted. And, of course, if you are also making that suggestion, then you too have joined in a racist/bigoted statement.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 07-22-19 at 12:28 AM.

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  3. #123
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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa View Post
    You should learn American history.
    Yeah that's a pretty impressive leap in logic right there, even though what was stated by the president himself doesn't even begin to approach that.

    Good thing that you couldn't argue with me using your own rule to call Obama a monster as well though. At least you're consistent in that approach.
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    Yes my son, and that should tell you more than you need to know about the coward.

  4. #124
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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    OK, so far you've wondered why I didn't address something I addressed in full in posts #1 and #2, then said it's somehow objectionable to put what were on their face controversial comments in context, and now are just saying the equivalent of "nuh uh!" Not a whole lot to debate, so I'll not try.
    People have been trying to equate nationalism with white-nationalism for as long as Trumps been in office, and it's been a failing argument. It's obvious that Vox is doing what they can to try and do the same here.
    Why do they run?
    Because they have no choice son, such is the way of cowards.
    But even a cornered rat, with no choice, will fight.
    Yes my son, and that should tell you more than you need to know about the coward.

  5. #125
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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa View Post
    The birthers called Obama a Kenyan because they claimed that he wasn't a American eligible to be POTUS. Trump was the leader of the birthers for years. That statement was a racist dog whistle.
    It's not a dog whistle when everyone can hear it.
    Mission: "to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States." ACLU. Why isn't every American a member?

  6. #126
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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    So when our own nation collapsed in the Great Depression, you blame the millions of Americans who suffered for it? People are looking for a better life and a system that supports it. That is what made America great and is what draws them here. So yes they come to be citizens and to take part in this great experiment. We need to be careful to not mess things up with toxic nationalism. It will lead to ruin.
    The Depression has nothing to do with anything. Did US Citizens flee to other countries?

    These people streaming to US illegally, or lying about asylum or refugee status are just failures from failed countries. They show no desire to abide by the law of the US, and simply importing the same attitudes the used to contribute to the failure of their native countries.

    "Toxic Nationalism" - What a pathetic joke.
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  7. #127
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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    People have been trying to equate nationalism with white-nationalism for as long as Trumps been in office, and it's been a failing argument. It's obvious that Vox is doing what they can to try and do the same here.
    And it's because, as Amy Wax points out, cultural distance nationalism or just nationalism is in practice indistinguishable from white nationalism. Wax, for her part, approvingly quotes unapologetic white nationalists, and even talks about how dirty immigrant communities are versus all white communities. What would a white nationalist say?

    That's the problem that people have been pointing out for years now. Call it whatever you want, but if it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck and flies like a duck, good luck drawing a distinction between that thing and a duck.

    That was the argument in the OP, and you've studiously refused to address it with a series of evasions. How can someone from a mile away tell whether someone is a racist WHITE nationalist, or is just concerned about "culture" that results in policy that favors white people and fewer non-whites.

    She says, "...cultural distance nationalism means in effect taking the position that our country will be better off with more whites, and fewer non-whites.
    Well, that is the result anyway."


    What would change about her ideas or the policies that flow from it if it was just "white nationalism" she was espousing versus this (new to me phrase) cultural distance nationalism?

  8. #128
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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    And it's because, as Amy Wax points out, cultural distance nationalism or just nationalism is in practice indistinguishable from white nationalism. Wax, for her part, approvingly quotes unapologetic white nationalists, and even talks about how dirty immigrant communities are versus all white communities. What would a white nationalist say?

    That's the problem that people have been pointing out for years now. Call it whatever you want, but if it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck and flies like a duck, good luck drawing a distinction between that thing and a duck.

    That was the argument in the OP, and you've studiously refused to address it with a series of evasions. How can someone from a mile away tell whether someone is a racist WHITE nationalist, or is just concerned about "culture" that results in policy that favors white people and fewer non-whites.

    She says, "...cultural distance nationalism means in effect taking the position that our country will be better off with more whites, and fewer non-whites.
    Well, that is the result anyway."


    What would change about her ideas or the policies that flow from it if it was just "white nationalism" she was espousing versus this (new to me phrase) cultural distance nationalism?
    There was no argument in the OP. It was a Progressive pile a propaganda garbage. Zack Beauchamp is nothing but a mouthpiece for rabid progressivism and the racist bigoted thuggery it espouses.

    Lies and distortions apparently pass for meaningful journalistic activity among liberals today.

    Republicans are not against legal immigration from anywhere on earth.

    The never ending attempt to suggest otherwise proves how disingenuous and pathetic the liberal progressive New Democratic Party is, and worse, the propaganda ministries they are trained to embrace.
    “When you talk about the firm that produced the Steele reporting, the name of the firm that produced that was Fusion GPS. Is that correct?”

    “I’m not familiar with that,” Robert Mueller answered.

  9. #129
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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    There was no argument in the OP. It was a Progressive pile a propaganda garbage. Zack Beauchamp is nothing but a mouthpiece for rabid progressivism and the racist bigoted thuggery it espouses.

    Lies and distortions apparently pass for meaningful journalistic activity among liberals today.
    Where is the lie? What did he distort? That's just a classic example of ad hominem.

    Republicans are not against legal immigration from anywhere on earth.

    The never ending attempt to suggest otherwise proves how disingenuous and pathetic the liberal progressive New Democratic Party is, and worse, the propaganda ministries they are trained to embrace.
    Why did you quote me and ignore every word?

    Amy Wax is against legal immigration by non-whites, and so were several of the speakers at that conference. I quoted her words above, what part of the that confused you? If you want to reject what she said, that is fine, but you are instead ignoring what she said, or pretending she didn't say what she did.

    "...cultural distance nationalism means in effect taking the position that our country will be better off with more whites, and fewer non-whites.
    Well, that is the result anyway."

    Hard to read that and conclude she's in favor of immigration, legal or illegal, from Somalia, because she says explicitly that she's opposed to immigration from the third world, which is a lot of the world!

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    Re: Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Debator View Post
    No, I'm just hopelessly jingoistic and racist.

    I live in Miami. I'm pretty well aware of the affects of both legal and illegal immigration. A few bad apples isn't enough to frighten me from opening my door to desperate people fleeing violence in part caused by our own domestic war on drugs.

    I'm not sure what about my avatar confuses you and as far as I know Ms. Harris is only Indian and Jamaican. I'm Chinese, Indian and Jamaican. There are quite a few us. Jamaica is a melting pot as well just a much smaller one. You can find all sorts of Jamaican mixes and you can find Jamaicans all over the world as well which is confusing for such a small little island.
    One - there are more than a few bad apples.
    Two - even the good apples are a drain on resources. Millions of them are a severe drain on resources.
    Three - when did you last open your door and welcome a stranger to live with you, to feed them, to educate them, provide healthcare ... at your expense?
    Four - a crime committed by ANY bad apple is a crime that wouldn't have occurred if that bad apple hadn't been allowed to be here illegally.
    Five - Confused by your av? Hardly.

    IF EVERYTHING IS IMPORTANT THEN NOTHING IS

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