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Trump and the dead end of conservative nationalism

truthatallcost said:
This is the crux of the inability on behalf of liberals to understand that people are not the malleable clay that Marx said they were. We can't raise IQ with education. We can't impart our culture on immigrants whose cultures don't contain any similarities with ours.

Minneapolis is a perfect example of the inability of some cultures to assimilate. The Somalians living there prefer to keep to their own clannish neighborhoods, and are even at odds with the local African American community. One African American homicide detective said that it's virtually impossible for him to solve a crime if it occurs in a Somali neighborhood, because even though he has the same skin color as the people from that neighborhood, they consider him an outsider and refuse to speak to him. Race isn't the problem here, its culture.
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This is so stupid, since that's is exactly what so many white conservatives do. THEy live in their little rural bubbles surrounded by only white, conservatives christians. They don't assimilate with a country made up of tons more races and cultures than white christian rednecks. how many never even step foot in a city. The Somalians may stay in communities where they are with peopel of similar culture to them (like most cultures), at least they live in cities amongst other cultures and races.
 
vegas giants said:
Then make your point clearly
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Well, no, you create straw men.

But then, also, you could also google Christians in Indonesia and find lots of stories regarding the hardships of being Christian in Indonesia.
 
jmotivator said:
Well, no, you create straw men.

But then, also, you could also google Christians in Indonesia and find lots of stories regarding the hardships of being Christian in Indonesia.
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By that standard blacks are not living in peace in the US.


You are dismissed. You have nothing
 
vegas giants said:
Malaysia, Indonesia, Jordan, Egypt, Maldives.....etc. who are they at war with?
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Try to leave Islam in any one of those. Apostasy; lashed, fined, imprisoned or worse. We should welcome non muslims from these countries. They are the persecuted ones. Islam is not compatible with the west.

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Eriech said:
Try to leave Islam in any one of those. Apostasy; lashed, fined, imprisoned or worse. We should welcome non muslims from these countries. They are the persecuted ones. Islam is not compatible with the west.

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What? You make no sense. Prove your claim
 
vegas giants said:
You have been dismissed.
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Have I? That's strange, because I am still here. Also, I can see that you have chosen the retreat method of debate.

That is a good choice. Now run along.
 
jmotivator said:
Have I? That's strange, because I am still here. Also, I can see that you have chosen the retreat method of debate.

That is a good choice. Now run along.
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Come back when you have something
 
vegas giants said:
Come back when you have something
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I've provided you with both evidence of the plight of Christians in Muslim countries, and a question for you to expand on the point you are trying to make.

It was at that point that you decided the conversation was over... :lamo
 
jmotivator said:
I've provided you with both evidence of the plight of Christians in Muslim countries, and a question for you to expand on the point you are trying to make.

It was at that point that you decided the conversation was over... :lamo
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Will you be screaming at a soldiers funeral today? Maybe firebombing a abortion clinic?

Just Christian's being Christian
 
vegas giants said:
Will you be screaming at a soldiers funeral today? Maybe firebombing a abortion clinic?

Just Christian's being Christian
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Hey, thank you for the insight into where your ignorance originates. Very instructive.
 
jmotivator said:
Hey, thank you for the insight into where your ignorance originates. Very instructive.
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Insult
I accept your concession. Want to call me a child again too? Lol
 
What if...? said:
While I doubt you want to hear it, our evolutionary arc changed dramatically with the adoption of the sedentary lifestyle. Abandoning hunting/gathering in favor of producing our own food.

For nearly a quarter of a million years we lived as alpha predator members of extended families. In social species "them member of any species with the best access to resources is the most likely to reproduce" changes to "the member of a social species with the highest status has the best access to resources and is the most likely to reproduce". Both models come with neurochemical rewards for associated behaviors. A cat chases a string because doing so makes him feel good. This encourages him to repeat the behavior and this hones his skills, improving his access to resources and improving his chances of reproducing.

The drive for status within the group was kept in check by social relationships and the fact we were all alpha predators. Even the women and childred doing the gathering had to be badasses because we evolved with megafauna that wanted to eat us or considered us a threat. So when someone tried to claim too much of what the tribe obtained they were simply told "No".

Then we settled down. And before long it became necessary to lock up and dole out the food. This resulted in wage labor, the management class, rigid heirarchies and professional guards/soldiers.

And completely broke the check on status seeking behaviors that existed during most of our evolution.

Since that time, hunger to be "The One" the one with no one above them, has been ****ing us up. This single behavior is responsible for most of the suffering in the world. Either your "king" needed too much additional land and peasants or too much finery and luxury and your society collapsed under his mismanagement or fell to someone who also wanted more land and subjects.

This is the pattern of history.

A good case can be made that we got where we are not because of them but despite them. And we'll never know how far we could have gone had this behavior not made us take two steps back for every three forward.
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You just described the continued evolution of mankind. Nothing changed, it continued to evolve. And Nations, with borders, and a desire to protect them continues from ancient times to this day.

It is evident that it is human nature to want to gather together those of like mind and cultural objective, and to protect it from those who don't share the same goals.
 
JasperL said:
I'm not sure what your point is here. The Chinese were explicitly singled out for example, and prohibited from entry for most of a century. And anti-Irish sentiment was rampant, open, so if it wasn't "cultural" then what was it? Even if it was anti-Catholic, why does that matter? Surely you've seen the anti-Irish cartoons. Depicting them as monkeys/apes was common, like this one:
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Anti Chinese sentiment in the 19th Century was racial and economic (generally, from my understanding). Anti Irish sentiment of the 19th century was economic and religious/political. No one really worried about the foreign polotical influence of Buddha, but people did worry that Catholics would prioritize their loyalty to the Pope.

My point , I suppose, is twofold:

1. I think you are lumping unlike things together in discussing the OP.

2. If we are attempting to ensure our immigration structure doesn't disrupt our - for lack of better description - Western cultural norms (and, broadly speaking, I think that a laudable goal), then you have to (as we have done before) have an active program of cultural assimilation of newcomers, combined with a deliberate awareness of the culture you are importing. She is correct that - all things being equal - this would advantage (say) would-be immigrants from Canada v would-be immigrants from (say) Pakistan.

However, some of the groups you mentioned (Japanese, Jews, etc), do not come with those considerations. Jews have been a huge force in developing Western culture (they are organic to it), and Japanese culture shares many norms with our own.

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