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U.S. sinks Arctic accord due to climate change differences

Grand Mal said:
Pompeo just went on record saying Canada's claim on the northwest passage that goes between Canadian islands is 'illegitimate'. He wants it to be international waters now that it's becoming more passable.
Bastards. Absolute bastards
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Trump threatened to send the Military to Mexico, maybe he'll send them to Canada too. Quite the diplomat - that guy...
 
HenryChinaski said:
As long as there is money to be made in fossil fuels, nothing will be done. I don't see the powers that be stepping up and enacting any sort of positive change for decades and by then it will more than likely be too late. Once those oil reserves are exploited, it's going to expedite the problem. This planet is going to be a very different place in 80 years. We're ****ing this planet up fast.
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I thought we only had 12 years left?

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HumblePi said:
If you're right, then good for you and for everyone on the planet. But, if she's right, then what?
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Get off the planet. Start colonizing space.

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trouble13 said:
I thought we only had 12 years left?

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You may be exaggerating for sarcasm but the reality is that unless every country works together for this one common goal, future generations will not have it within their capacity to reverse the impact of global warming. The projection for the point at which the effects of global warming will be irreversible is 2025.

The earth has already warmed by 1 degree Celsius, or 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit, above 19th-century global average temperatures. We're on our way toward 1.5 °C (2.7 °F) by as early as 2030. Global average temperature is just that – an average. There are parts of the world that will warm less, and some that will warm far more. In a 2 °C world, land can be two to three times warmer than the global average, and the Arctic may be up to four times warmer at 8 °C (14 °F).

Most people can't understand that a 1°C degree of warming has any significant impact. Humans can't even discern a 1°C degree increase difference. I know that when I go outside in the summer and it's 89F degrees it still feels like 87F to me. But for oceans, it's potentially catastrophic. When a catastrophic event occurs under the oceans, it affects everyone on the planet. Coral dies, fish disappear, higher storm surges from sea level rise, exacerbated drought conditions from dried-out soil affecting agriculture, it all affects humans in countless ways. When the warming of oceans can no longer be reversed it may take another 50 years before it impacts humans on a more calamitous scale where tens of millions of people on the planet will experience life threatening conditions.

The fact is that right now, even if everyone locks arms and were able to at least press the pause button on global warming, it would still take many years to reverse the ill effects. But when people are at odds with each other simply on the premise of global warming, then it's pretty clear the environment and life on earth will suffer imminent catastrophes in the future.
 
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HumblePi said:
You may be exaggerating for sarcasm but the reality is that unless every country works together for this one common goal, future generations will not have it within their capacity to reverse the impact of global warming. The projection for the point at which the effects of global warming will be irreversible is 2025.

The earth has already warmed by 1 degree Celsius, or 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit, above 19th-century global average temperatures. We're on our way toward 1.5 °C (2.7 °F) by as early as 2030. Global average temperature is just that – an average. There are parts of the world that will warm less, and some that will warm far more. In a 2 °C world, land can be two to three times warmer than the global average, and the Arctic may be up to four times warmer at 8 °C (14 °F).

Most people can't understand that a 1°C degree of warming has any significant impact. Humans can't even discern a 1°C degree increase difference. I know that when I go outside in the summer and it's 89F degrees it still feels like 87F to me. But for oceans, it's potentially catastrophic. When a catastrophic event occurs under the oceans, it affects everyone on the planet. Coral dies, fish disappear, higher storm surges from sea level rise, exacerbated drought conditions from dried-out soil affecting agriculture, it all affects humans in countless ways. When the warming of oceans can no longer be reversed it may take another 50 years before it impacts humans on a more calamitous scale where tens of millions of people on the planet will experience life threatening conditions.

The fact is that right now, even if everyone locks arms and were able to at least press the pause button on global warming, it would still take many years to reverse the ill effects. But when people are at odds with each other simply on the premise of global warming, then it's pretty clear the environment and life on earth will suffer imminent catastrophes in the future.
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How am i exaggerating. Im not the one making the doomsday is coming claim.

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trouble13 said:
How am i exaggerating. Im not the one making the doomsday is coming claim.

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It was the flippancy of your comment "I thought we only had 12 years left?" which clearly implied that environmentalists are exaggerating and misleading the public.
 
Media_Truth said:
Trump threatened to send the Military to Mexico, maybe he'll send them to Canada too. Quite the diplomat - that guy...
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Huh?

More liberal misinterpretations?

Link please.
 
What exactly is the motivation to ignore the advice and scientific research by the world's leading scientists on this matter? Surely its not grounded in our own abilities to do the research and analysis ourselves, that is preposterous to even contemplate. Critics of climate change cannot prove their claims in world bodies or by presenting their own findings, they are simply throwing them out as biased or inflammatory based upon their own opinions or biases. So what exactly forms their objections? None of the posters here are experts, nor am I. Yet I accept the findings of experts while many reject them. This is like objecting to a report from NASA showing a photograph of a supernova because you do not believe supernovas exist. Of course, these critics are being untruthful about their real motivations because the only motivation has to be grounded in some set of principles or ideas that have nothing to do with the science itself. If it did, they would be successfully rebutting the science and winning the debate among true experts.
 
Vadinho said:
What exactly is the motivation to ignore the advice and scientific research by the world's leading scientists on this matter?
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lol world's leading scientists? The IPCC is composed of no more than a thousand like minded people with an agenda, and they cherry pick the data to present a false apocalyptic narrative to scare the public- the IPCC doesnt even do their own research, they just take other papers, the ones that agree with their views and ignore the rest.

The vast majority of scientists in the world are silent. Why? Because they admit they dont know.

The only fact that cannot be disputed is that the world's average temp went up by 1C, and it took more than 40 years to do that. There is also no evidence of an increase in catastrophic weather because of this, nor is anyone certain if this was caused by human beings or its a natural part of the atmospheric cycle.
 
PoS said:
lol world's leading scientists? The IPCC is composed of no more than a thousand like minded people with an agenda, and they cherry pick the data to present a false apocalyptic narrative to scare the public- the IPCC doesnt even do their own research, they just take other papers, the ones that agree with their views and ignore the rest.

The vast majority of scientists in the world are silent. Why? Because they admit they dont know.

The only fact that cannot be disputed is that the world's average temp went up by 1C, and it took more than 40 years to do that. There is also no evidence of an increase in catastrophic weather because of this, nor is anyone certain if this was caused by human beings or its a natural part of the atmospheric cycle.
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So now you are attacking the scientists for not being experts based upon your intimate knowledge of the subject and your exhaustive research and findings. Got it. If there is any better proof of the shallowness of this debate it is your statement above, what a joke.
 
Vadinho said:
So now you are attacking the scientists for not being experts based upon your intimate knowledge of the subject and your exhaustive research and findings. Got it. If there is any better proof of the shallowness of this debate it is your statement above, what a joke.
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Thats not what I said at all. But hey, if youre so convinced that the world is gonna end in 12 years, go ahead and start selling your assets- I'm sure you'll get a good bargain on them.
 
PoS said:
Thats not what I said at all. But hey, if youre so convinced that the world is gonna end in 12 years, go ahead and start selling your assets- I'm sure you'll get a good bargain on them.
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Why do you keep repeating this lie? Nobody who makes up the scientific consensus is claiming the world will "end" in 12 years. The figure is a rough estimate of how long we have to act to actually counter-act the effects. The worst effects are predicted 50-100 years down the road, and even those were never called "world-ending".
 
Mr Person said:
Why do you keep repeating this lie? Nobody who makes up the scientific consensus is claiming the world will "end" in 12 years. The figure is a rough estimate of how long we have to act to actually counter-act the effects. The worst effects are predicted 50-100 years down the road, and even those were never called "world-ending".
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AOC said the world will end in 12 years, so its not a lie. Ive already given you the link to this before, so stop pretending that people dont think this is true. All you have to do is look at post #12 on this thread to see that people believe it.
 
PoS said:
AOC said the world will end in 12 years, so its not a lie. Ive already given you the link to this before, so stop pretending that people dont think this is true. All you have to do is look at post #12 on this thread to see that people believe it.
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If we're ever going to make progress on as complicated an issue as climate change, it's critical to strip away the hyperbole on both sides and focus on the facts.
 
PoS said:
Thats not what I said at all. But hey, if youre so convinced that the world is gonna end in 12 years, go ahead and start selling your assets- I'm sure you'll get a good bargain on them.
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Now you switch over to attacking AOC, wonderful. I wish you people would just grow up and look at issues in a mature and reasoned fashion. These idiotic posts are like listening to teenagers argue in the back seat of the car on the way to a high school football game.
 
Mr Person said:
Why do you keep repeating this lie? Nobody who makes up the scientific consensus is claiming the world will "end" in 12 years. The figure is a rough estimate of how long we have to act to actually counter-act the effects. The worst effects are predicted 50-100 years down the road, and even those were never called "world-ending".
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PoS said:
AOC said the world will end in 12 years, so its not a lie. Ive already given you the link to this before, so stop pretending that people dont think this is true. All you have to do is look at post #12 on this thread to see that people believe it.
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AOC is isn't a "somebody who makes up the scientific consensus." If some politician exaggerates what the people in the field are predicting, that doesn't mean that AGW isn't a think, is a joke, or shouldn't be done anything about.

AOC is not a spokesman for a field or even a spokesman for Democrats in general, regardless of the attention the likes of Fox have heaped on her.

And when you claim AGW says the world will end in 12 years, you don't do it in reference to AOC as a politician who said something dumb. You use it to attack AGW directly, and that simply isn't reasonable or fair play.




Again, whether it's 10 or 12 or 15 years (specifics very), the point is that those who actually devoted their careers to researching this stuff are talking about a rough estimate of time in which we can actually mostly reverse what we've done. Meanwhile, the worst predictions are only if we do nothing (and thus keep increasing CO2 output), and they're generally about 50-100 years down the road. They are also completely reasonable, as a several degree rise in temps is necessarily going to change the optimal climate for various crops, etc. And given how humans treat land ownership, that's going to mean a whole lot of land stops being farmable or can be used to farm some things, but not the things they were. That sort of change always lead to conflict, no matter the cause.

Various other points of no return are thrown about for various glaciers melting. Global changes take a long time, so we'd still see more of what we're seeing for a while if we really did stop pumping out CO2 in a hurry. Etc. But absolutely none of the actual science is saying the world will end in 12 years or anything like it. What they are saying that if we do nothing significant, **** will be ****ed up a generation or two down the road.





So if you want to make fun of AOC, fine. But instead you keep saying this "world end" thing like it's somehow representative.

If Rand Paul says something stupid, does he speak for all Libertarians?
 
HumblePi said:
It was the flippancy of your comment "I thought we only had 12 years left?" which clearly implied that environmentalists are exaggerating and misleading the public.
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Do you believe we only have 12 years left or that of went to the extremes they are saying we must do that it will alter the earths climatic path?

Even what your doing is this post is an example of alarism going on. If someone does not express the adequate amount of panic they sre accussed of being flippant.

I was not arguing if climate change was a valid concern or not. I was pointing out that there is a lack of consistency by the ones predicting disaster coming.

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trouble13 said:
Do you believe we only have 12 years left or that of went to the extremes they are saying we must do that it will alter the earths climatic path?

Even what your doing is this post is an example of alarism going on. If someone does not express the adequate amount of panic they sre accussed of being flippant.

I was not arguing if climate change was a valid concern or not. I was pointing out that there is a lack of consistency by the ones predicting disaster coming.

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I'm not being an alarmist because historically red alarms, bells and whistles haven't swayed any climate deniers. From just being a casual observer about weather changes and rapidly shrinking glaciers, I'll side with the environmental scientists data any day. I just think it's wiser to err on the side of caution, there's nothing to lose by everyone on this planet trying to keep it livable for future generations.
 
trouble13 said:
How am i exaggerating. Im not the one making the doomsday is coming claim.

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I thought you said we only had 12 years left? Wait, lemme scroll back... yep, that's what you said.
 
PoS said:
Well according to AOC, we have 12 years left before the world ends...
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She was referring to a UN report that if we don't seriously start reversing carbon emissions over the next 12 years or so the situation will be most likely irreversible .
 
Media_Truth said:
Trump surrounds himself with bastards. Anybody that wasn't a bastard was either fired or resigned.
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He only wanted to drain the swamp so he could find and employ the ugliest bastards that were lying at the bottom of it, as history has shown us all
 
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