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The Latest: California vaccine exemption bill advances

Bucky said:
I will admit that there is no link between autism and vaccinations when you or anyone else on this forum can explain the recent spike in autism cases.

Explain to me what causes autism and why autism rates have increased at an alarming rate. Perhaps it is in the dosage amount?
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The main reason is that in the past people with autism would just be labelled slow, hyperactive, prone to fixations or things like that. Diagnosis techniques have greatly improved and what in the past would have just been written off as a character trait or habit is now recognized as autism. Here is an article.

The only study that linked vaccines to autism was throughly debunked. Even if that was the case, would you rather have a dead child or an autistic child?
 
Fenton said:
The World's Health Organization estimates that 1/3 of the world's population is infected with Tuberculosis
WHO | 3. Tuberculosis control

Of-course it's highly contagious and easy to contract and just like measles, the TB bacteria can remain in the air and on surfaces for hours

And schools haven't required a negative TB screening as a condition of enrollment for years

After multiple recent school outbreaks all over the Nation, some School districts are, including Fairfax County in Virginia.


In 2012, TB dropped to an all time low in the US, so what's happened between 2012 and 2019 that would cause TB cases to spike in the US ? U.S. TB infections drop to record low: CDC - Reuters
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Show me the stats on transmission to show that TB is as easy to contact as measles. Because it just is not. TB is usually amoungst people who see each other every day . So not just a casual contact. On the other measles is HIGHLY contagious - and a brief sharing of the same room can transmit the same disease.

After multiple exposures to patients who were later to have found to have TB if it was that easy to contract - after 36 years in ICU dealing with patients with serious lung issues.....I would have had it by now. Especially earlier in my career when I was living in Virginia (1980s) we were getting tested and retested several times a year for definite exposure.

I am not saying the impact of TB is not huge.

But there never was an eradication in this country which you stated there was. Nowhere near. Not even close.

Fenton said:
It was and continues to be carried across our Southern border by migrants, they are the source for not only measles but other infectious diseases that have been erradicated in the US, including tuberculosis
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In addition, at least in my area, at the minimum a risk screening for TB is required. They would be required to get a skin test if the screening was positive. I would think any school district that has been hit by an uptick in TB would forego the pre-screening and just require the skin test and appropriate follow up if needed.
 
If u don't want to vaccinate, you shouldn't be allowed to send your kids to school. Your decision. The world shouldn't revolve around your theories. People should be aware your kids are not vaccinated so they can make informed decisions.
 
Carjosse said:
The main reason is that in the past people with autism would just be labelled slow, hyperactive, prone to fixations or things like that. Diagnosis techniques have greatly improved and what in the past would have just been written off as a character trait or habit is now recognized as autism. Here is an article.

The only study that linked vaccines to autism was throughly debunked. Even if that was the case, would you rather have a dead child or an autistic child?
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Autism has been linked to airway problems since that would impact cognitive development. Sugars and processed foods increase inflammation leading to lowered immunity, nasal congestion, mouth breathing...leading to airway probs. Cell phones, iPads etc are damaging to developing brains yet many parents are clueless.
 
What a great plan! Eliminate doctors. If you need medical care just go to your county clerk. All then needed to do is modify the doorways so stretchers can fit in easily for ambulances and probably medical emergency 911 calls should also go to the country clerk for efficiency.

It will be important to education people to learn they must only need medical care Monday thru Friday, 9 to 5 excluding government holidays so they only are sick or injured during government working hours.
 
joko104 said:
California lawmakers are advancing tougher rules for vaccinations despite hearing hours of testimony from hundreds of opponents.

]The Senate Health Committee late Wednesday approved the proposal to give state public health officials instead of local doctors the power to decide which children can skip their shots before attending school.

The Latest: California vaccine exemption bill advances

People should look at this very hard as this is what socializing the healthcare system will bring. You won't be diagnosed by doctors. Neither you nor doctors will make your healthcare decisions. Government bureaucratic hacks will make your healthcare decisions based upon whatever political and social agenda they want to push.

Add to that how many times Democrats and liberals have openly said they hope old people die off because they tend to be conservative and you can understand that socialized medicine will be a death sentence to millions.
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I am a liberal democrat and oppose mandated vaccinations. Sticking a needle in someone's arms and injecting chemicals without consent is tyranny, especially, though remote, there is a chance for injury
( over 3 billion awarded in vaccine injury cases ). I don't care what the argument is.

But, I'll get the measles vax, if the blood test results tell me I'm not immune ( can't remember if I had the measles as a kid in the 50s, though I think I did ).
 
Being anti-vax is like being anti-agw or anti-science in general. Suspension of disbelief for profound idiocy.

Anti-vaxxers are literally dangerous and they are literally endangering the lives of their children and everyone else.

I don't care who you are, or how you feel about it.

Mandate them, and jail anyone who refuses.
 
joko104 said:
What a great plan! Eliminate doctors. If you need medical care just go to your county clerk. All then needed to do is modify the doorways so stretchers can fit in easily for ambulances and probably medical emergency 911 calls should also go to the country clerk for efficiency.

It will be important to education people to learn they must only need medical care Monday thru Friday, 9 to 5 excluding government holidays so they only are sick or injured during government working hours.
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No vaccines. Parents get charged for negligent homicide if their kids die from preventable diseases.

Deal?
 
The sad thing is that a bunch of anti-vaxxers are left-leaning (generally very far on the left) and have probably mocked the GOP's idiotic AGW denierism.
 
Phys251 said:
Your boy Trump is now calling for parents to vaccinate their kids. :)
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Thank you for posting the link.


The measles outbreak is so bad that my granddaughter who is just under 3 had her booster MMR vaccine which is usually given at 4 years of age. Doctors and CDC are recommending getting the booster early for better protection.

Time to make sure you and all of your loved ones are protected.
 
Bucky said:
Quote from my previous post:

In a series of reports published between 1991 and 2013, the Institute of Medicine affirmed that scientific evidence demonstrates that vaccines can cause injury and death and that some people are genetically, biologically and environmentally at higher risk for being harmed by vaccines

Choosing to get your children vaccinated should be a personal choice made by the parents. Unless the government wants to eliminate parental choice, they can stay out of the personal lives of families.
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Go right ahead. Then homeschool your kids or send them to Antivax schools. Bring back iron lungs.
 
Fenton said:
Ridiculous. In 2020, the CDC stated that Measles was officially eradicated in the US.
So anti-vaxxers couldn't be the source, neither are people flying in on international flights.

It was and continues to be carried across our Southern border by migrants, they are the source for not only measles but other infectious diseases that have been erradicated in the US, including tuberculosis

There is no effective vaccine for Tuberculosis, which is why your not hearing about the TB outbreaks in schools across the Nation.
It can't be blamed on anti-vaxxers, so it's being ignored by the media
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False.

Last time I checked the calendar it is still the year 2019.
 
Carjosse said:
The only study that linked vaccines to autism was throughly debunked. Even if that was the case, would you rather have a dead child or an autistic child?
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Let me correct your question... I think you meant to ask, 'Would you rather have 1000s of dead children for every one autistic child?'
 
Mr Person said:
The sad thing is that a bunch of anti-vaxxers are left-leaning (generally very far on the left) and have probably mocked the GOP's idiotic AGW denierism.
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You mean something like this... ?

OscarLevant said:
I am a liberal democrat and oppose mandated vaccinations. Sticking a needle in someone's arms and injecting chemicals without consent is tyranny, especially, though remote, there is a chance for injury
( over 3 billion awarded in vaccine injury cases ). I don't care what the argument is.
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I don't think anyone is talking about "injecting chemicals without consent", do they?

However, government that wants to protect its people is very justified from disallowing unvaccinated people in close proximity to rest of population. Knowing what we know from science, it's very analogous to disallowing people known to have a transmittable contagious disease among others. You have to have certain percentage of people to be vaccinated for the vaccine to work. It's also analogous to how people with guns are not allowed in libraries, banks, postal office, etc.
 
Slavister said:
You mean something like this... ?



I don't think anyone is talking about "injecting chemicals without consent", do they?
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I believe they are headed in that direction. Did they not do this in some areas of NYC ?

However, government that wants to protect its people is very justified from disallowing unvaccinated people in close proximity to rest of population. Knowing what we know from science, it's very analogous to disallowing people known to have a transmittable contagious disease among others.
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Not analogous at all. The vast majority of unvaxxed have no communicable disease.
The same is true of vaxxed populations.

You can't compare an infected population with non infected population, vaxxed or not.

You have to have certain percentage of people to be vaccinated for the vaccine to work. It's also analogous to how people with guns are not allowed in libraries, banks, postal office, etc.
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Forced vaccinations is tyranny, that is my view.

History is replete with examples of outbreaks in highly vaxxed populations. (proof provided if requested ).

History is replete with examples of injury following vaccinations. ( over $3 billion in vaccine injury awards ).

Therefore, there is a risk, and as long as there is, vaccinations should not be forced, they should be voluntary.

It is up to the promoters of vaccines to sell it to those who resist, not force it.

The only people who can infect others are those who are carrying a communicable disease, which history proves, over and over and over again, can be vaccinated and unvaccinated people.

There is no evidence for "herd immunity". It's just a theoretical thing. History is replete with outbreaks in highly vaxxed populations, so it can't be true. ( proof provided on request).

I'm immune to measles & mumps because I got measles and mumps in the 50s, as a child. My immunity is far more effective than any a vaccine provides. ( or so I'm told, I'm going to get a blood test to determine this ).

However, as an adult, if I were not immune, I would get the vax, I'm not against vaccines, per se. As I understand it, getting measles as an adult is far riskier than as a child.

I am only against forced vaccinations. That is my only argument.
 
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OscarLevant said:
I am a liberal democrat and oppose mandated vaccinations. Sticking a needle in someone's arms and injecting chemicals without consent is tyranny, especially, though remote, there is a chance for injury
( over 3 billion awarded in vaccine injury cases ). I don't care what the argument is.

But, I'll get the measles vax, if the blood test results tell me I'm not immune ( can't remember if I had the measles as a kid in the 50s, though I think I did ).
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OscarLevant said:
I believe they are headed in that direction. Did they not do this in some areas of NYC ?
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They do? If you have a link, I'd be curious.

OscarLevant said:
Not analogous at all. The vast majority of unvaxxed have no communicable disease.
The same is true of vaxxed populations.

You can't compare an infected population with non infected population, vaxxed or not.
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I disagree. Vaccines are against diseases that are too late to wait for before they appear. If you don't want population, and especially weak and vulnerable, to have those, you have to vax and thus the analogy stands. For these diseases, not having sufficiently vaccinated population, is same as inviting the disease to spread around for when the case 0 hits. And in our more-and-more-connected world case 0 is just around the corner... or a flight away.

OscarLevant said:
History is replete with examples of outbreaks in highly vaxxed populations. (proof provided if requested ).
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Vaccines are not 100% effective. Nowhere close. Vaccination levels of populations matter a lot. Your examples would not be relevant to the question. What WOULD be relevant is whether such outbreaks occurred with same frequency in vaccinated vs non-vaccinated populations.

OscarLevant said:
History is replete with examples of injury following vaccinations. ( over $3 billion in vaccine injury awards ).
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Dollar amount is not relevant. How many injuries is not relevant. What's truly relevant is number of injuries VS number of deaths avoided. Science is very clear that vaccines prevent way more deaths than any harm they cause.

OscarLevant said:
It is up to the promoters of vaccines to sell it to those who resist, not force it.
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First, noone is forcing it. Second, this approach does not work. A healthy young man may not care about vaccinating because a given disease may not affect him directly. What he WILL be though is a carrier of it, spreading it to others, while having 0 symptoms of his own.

OscarLevant said:
The only people who can infect others are those who are carrying a communicable disease, which history proves, over and over and over again, can be vaccinated and unvaccinated people.
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Does not matter if it CAN be vaccinated people. What matters is whether vaccinated population is substantially at less risk to spreading the disease vs unvaccinated one.

OscarLevant said:
There is no evidence for "herd immunity". It's just a theoretical thing. History is replete with outbreaks in highly vaxxed populations, so it can't be true. ( proof provided on request).
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Now, you are just putting yourself in same anti-science crowd as climate deniers.

OscarLevant said:
I'm immune to measles & mumps because I got measles and mumps in the 50s, as a child. My immunity is far more effective than any a vaccine provides. ( or so I'm told, I'm going to get a blood test to determine this ).
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If doctors say that vaccinating you will provide no benefit as far as spreading the disease to others, I don't see any reason for them or government to require you to do so.
 
joko104 said:
A government told groups of Jews they were stepping into a mass shower, not a lethal gas chamber.

Only idiots would allow themselves to injected with something having no clue what it is or why.
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You do know that is total BS don't you? For one it was not a "government" it is the Nazi party, a dictatorship of one with a whole host of evil hangers on.

Also, SS officers told them they were being deloused but then betrayed and killed. That you include this in a discussion about vaccination means you have no relevant position on this whatsoever, or an informed, or an intelligent or a cogent position.

And we know exactly what is in it. Here is the list with all the vaccines and what it in it Content Vaccines

And here is a list of all vaccines licenses in the US.

So what I read in your comments are the lack of any evidence of why vaccines are bad for you and an inability to make any kind of convincing argument so you went "all in for the Nazi's" to justify your weird and nonsensical claims against the use of vaccines.

And so I already proved that your claim of what is in vaccines is total nonsense and we for 100% know why we give vaccines. So that children no longer have to live in wheelchairs from polio. Women no longer die from preventable cancers (HPV vaccine). So that children do not risk dying in outbreaks of measles and all other completely preventable childhood diseases.

Now I may you say, well some of these illnesses are as dangerous as others, but then think about young children who could have very bad reactions to disease that are not that much of an issue for older children, etc. etc. etc. We vaccinate to protect our child but also to protect other children of possible risks.
 
joko104 said:
No, the question is why are some many Democrats and atheists such submissive sheeple to the government? Why do they worship government as if omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent gods?
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That might be "a" question, even "your" question, but not the question.
 
joko104 said:
No, the question is why are some many Democrats and atheists such submissive sheeple to the government? Why do they worship government as if omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent gods?
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Well I would rather believe something from a government based on facts than on the idiotic views of religions. Those are the real sheeple because they believe everything based on faith. We do not worship government, we like to have freedom from religious governments like most conservatives seem to admire and want to vote into government.

And why would a government be omnipotent? The government is an extension of US, the people of a country and we are all fallible and imperfect beings and our government is the same, well willing mostly but fallible and from time to time very imperfect.
 
Unreal that this is even being debated.

Vaccinate.

The end.
 
Bucky said:
It is a joke. I don't want to risk my kid getting Autism. IMO it is completely a violation of one's freedom to be forcing people to get vaccinated, especially if vaccinations are dangerous!
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If my kid ever gets sick because of some dumbass antivaxxer parent, somebody is getting slapped.
 
mr person said:
The sad thing is that a bunch of anti-vaxxers are left-leaning (generally very far on the left) and have probably mocked the GOP's idiotic AGW denierism.
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Really, dude? It’s not a left or right thing; it’s a stupid or smart thing — kinda like stupid posts aren’t exclusive to one group or another.
 
Bucky said:
It is a joke. I don't want to risk my kid getting Autism. IMO it is completely a violation of one's freedom to be forcing people to get vaccinated, especially if vaccinations are dangerous!
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There is no connection whatsoever between vaccination and autism.
 
joko104 said:
California lawmakers are advancing tougher rules for vaccinations despite hearing hours of testimony from hundreds of opponents.

]The Senate Health Committee late Wednesday approved the proposal to give state public health officials instead of local doctors the power to decide which children can skip their shots before attending school.

The Latest: California vaccine exemption bill advances

People should look at this very hard as this is what socializing the healthcare system will bring. You won't be diagnosed by doctors. Neither you nor doctors will make your healthcare decisions. Government bureaucratic hacks will make your healthcare decisions based upon whatever political and social agenda they want to push.
Click to expand...
Not all liberals back such bills as this. I"m opposed to federal, state, or local governments mandating vaccination, "UNLESS", there is an epidemic in a specific area and the vaccine is proven to be low risk of injury
Add to that how many times Democrats and liberals have openly said they hope old people die off because they tend to be conservative and you can understand that socialized medicine will be a death sentence to millions.
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Mediocrity becomes you.

In other words, evidence, please.
 
Sgt Meowenstein said:
If my kid ever gets sick because of some dumbass antivaxxer parent, somebody is getting slapped.
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And if your kid gets sick because a vaccinated kid gets the disease, despite the vax, you are not going to be mad?

History is replete with outbreaks in highly vaccinated populations.
 
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