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How'd You Feel If Your Boss Made $486 For Every Dollar You Make?

what built the "good ole days" was a world decimated by a war, and we having the only real ability to take advantage of the situation

it wasnt that we did things better than most....it was we could do them at all

then by the 70's we got fat and happy, and the japanese starting kicking our asses in the car market....and the manufacturing sector has been going downhill ever since

unions got pushy, wages got too high, and the products got worse and worse

and the numbers crunchers became aware of one other major fact....we wernt dying off fast enough

the pensions and insurance plans of the 40's thru 70's were becoming disastrous as we lived into our 80's and 90's

the numbers didnt make sense anymore....

dont blame it all on the companies.....yes, greed made some of the items happen, but some came from our own internal problems caused by our own lackadaisical attitudes

I can buy most of that. Although I think the New Deal had more to do with the strength of the middle-class than you do.
But identifying the causes does not address the solutions. It helps address them though.
Ya pensions got massive, and as I said earlier, unions didn't help much.
I think that work-based pensions were a bad idea in the first place. Higher salaries and no company pension programs would likely work better.
Then the onus is on the individual to plan for his/her retirement. But by giving the 'working class' people more cash in their pockets, sales would naturally rise allowing companies to grow. But this is all mute if these companies are allowed to off-shore labour, with no tariffs imposed.
 
A big part of what's wrong with America. Does anybody believe that these CEOs work 150-500 times harder than their employees?

Top Bank CEOs Questioned About Their Pay In House Hearing : NPR

The heads of some of the nation's biggest banks faced tough questions from Democrats on Wednesday about overdraft fees, the stability of the banking system and their own multimillion-dollar compensation.

The House Financial Services Committee hearing was titled, "Holding Megabanks Accountable: A Review of Global Systemically Important Banks 10 years after the Financial Crisis."

"Ten years ago, the CEOs appeared before this very committee to discuss the financial crisis and the massive bailout taxpayers provided," said committee Chairwoman Maxine Waters, D-Calif. "A decade later, what have they learned? Are they helping their customers and working to benefit the communities they serve? Or are the practices of these banks still causing harm?"


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I always thought opportunity to make that much money by anyone in this country was the heart and soul of the American Dream. The only one stopping you from being the one making that kind of money is yourself. If you want to see the problem take a look in the mirror.
 
I love how some people actively encourage rich people to get richer at the expense of their employees. Worship of the Rich is so, so pathetic.

Jealousy of the rich is so pathetic.
 
Did the boss who's job you got make 486x the amount you made? We're not talking getting promoted from assistant fry cook to fry cook, we're talking CEOs.

If you don't like working for a company that has CEO's then quit. Chances are you are working there because it pays better and has better benefits than the other places.
 
How would you feel if you were a CEO and you only seen your yearly wages increase by 1% in the last 15 years.
Your managers wages have grown by 14% and your lowly labors wages have increased by 8% over the last 15 years.
How would you feel as the CEO of the company?

I worked for a Fortune 500 company, and I recall one year when they froze all salary increases, based on Sales Projections (which never panned out). Executives also had the salaries frozen, but they awarded themselves about 10%-of-their-pay bonus increases.
 
Jealousy of the rich is so pathetic.

You call it jealousy, I call it disdain of injustice. I have no problem with folks making more money than I do. That said, there are no checks and balances on CEOs and other high-level executives. They vote themselves raises and bonuses. They get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to sit on the Boards of each other's corporations, and attend one meeting per year. As we saw with these bankers, during the bailout, their raises and bonuses are not tied to any Corporate performance or profits. They are accountable to noone, and they rob from everyone!
 
You call it jealousy, I call it disdain of injustice. I have no problem with folks making more money than I do. That said, there are no checks and balances on CEOs and other high-level executives. They vote themselves raises and bonuses. They get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to sit on the Boards of each other's corporations, and attend one meeting per year. As we saw with these bankers, during the bailout, their raises and bonuses are not tied to any Corporate performance or profits. They are accountable to noone, and they rob from everyone!

a few fat cat banker CEO's does not paint an appropriate picture of what corporate life is like for most executives in America

Do you know what the average salary is for a CEO is? CFO? How hard it is to get to that level of experience, and expertise? And what the tenure is once you reach those lofty heights?

I was a CFO for a 100 million dollar company....small pototoes in the big scheme of things.....and it took me 25 years to attain that position....my base salary was 225k....and with all bonuses, my compensation was probably around 375k....not bad.....i am not complaining at all....but it took me a lifetime to get there

And i was ousted from that position a year ago, when the owner and board decided my assistant i had trained for 10 years, was ready to take my spot....i got 6 months severance....no golden parachute

What you hear about in the news, and what happens in the real world are usually two radically different things. I have now moved on to my own business....where i make the rules, and i control the purse strings. And as i said in the minimum wage thread, i refuse to overpay for labor. Each job is worth x to me....you want to make more, learn more, and become more valuable to me, and my business.
 
If you are working a minimum wage job at McDonalds, you should probably be more concerned with how you change your occupation and future than what the owners or CEO of McDonalds makes.
 
A big part of what's wrong with America. Does anybody believe that these CEOs work 150-500 times harder than their employees?

Top Bank CEOs Questioned About Their Pay In House Hearing : NPR

The heads of some of the nation's biggest banks faced tough questions from Democrats on Wednesday about overdraft fees, the stability of the banking system and their own multimillion-dollar compensation.

The House Financial Services Committee hearing was titled, "Holding Megabanks Accountable: A Review of Global Systemically Important Banks 10 years after the Financial Crisis."

"Ten years ago, the CEOs appeared before this very committee to discuss the financial crisis and the massive bailout taxpayers provided," said committee Chairwoman Maxine Waters, D-Calif. "A decade later, what have they learned? Are they helping their customers and working to benefit the communities they serve? Or are the practices of these banks still causing harm?"


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Thst would mean my company is making money. I would feel great!
 
As long as I'm making what seems a fitting salary for the work I perform in the locale where I perform it, I wouldn't care.

Truly, I haven't ever concerned myself with the fact of someone else earning more than I.

What would piss me off is my employer making money "hand over fist" and not sharing the wealth in an equitably proportionate manner. I wouldn't need the compensation to in cash, but I would need there to be some sort of "parity bump," be it by giving me stock, boosting my benefits, more paid vacation, perqs, or something such that if the firm accords the guys at the C-level and immediately below X% increases, folks two rungs below and lower should get some sort of compensation increase (one or a combination of several) that amounts to X% as well.

Something many income-inequality discussions, particularly those that focus on CEOs' compensation fail to consider is that a huge share of CEOs' compensation is non-cash. A very small number of CEOs actually receive salaries above a few million. In contrast, few "rank and file" employees receive much, if any, non-cash compensation. Don't misunderstand me. I realize that on one level, compensation is compensation; however, for an "apples to apples" comparison, one really can't include things like stock options and other non-cash compensation. Why? Because the employer isn't actually paying it; the firm isn't disbursing cash. The compensation from stock options, for instance, comes from whoever buys the stock the CEO sells.


Full Disclosure:
Save for a brief period at the start of my career, I haven't ever been an employee. I've worked in a firm where some folks earned more than I, but my peers there earned about what I did, and I earned enough to sustain myself, so I didn't care that the folks a couple rungs up made materially more than I.

The % increase aspect is something I try to bring up when discussing income disparity.

IMO, in a functioning economy, a rising tide should lift all boats at about the same rate. A "boat" being a fully participating member of the economy, doing something full time that needs to be done.

It was that way for a long time. Then it suddenly wasn't. It became technologically feasible to take advantage of far cheaper labor, so businesses did that. Investments in automation made it possible to use less labor, so businesses did that.

Now some boats are lifting like a flat earth and others have been flat for decades, adjusted for inflation.

Its a problem that's going to take some creative thinking.
 
You call it jealousy, I call it disdain of injustice. I have no problem with folks making more money than I do. That said, there are no checks and balances on CEOs and other high-level executives. They vote themselves raises and bonuses. They get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to sit on the Boards of each other's corporations, and attend one meeting per year. As we saw with these bankers, during the bailout, their raises and bonuses are not tied to any Corporate performance or profits. They are accountable to noone, and they rob from everyone!

That's called freedom and liberty. It's what The United States is all about.
 
a few fat cat banker CEO's does not paint an appropriate picture of what corporate life is like for most executives in America

Do you know what the average salary is for a CEO is? CFO? How hard it is to get to that level of experience, and expertise? And what the tenure is once you reach those lofty heights?

I was a CFO for a 100 million dollar company....small pototoes in the big scheme of things.....and it took me 25 years to attain that position....my base salary was 225k....and with all bonuses, my compensation was probably around 375k....not bad.....i am not complaining at all....but it took me a lifetime to get there

And i was ousted from that position a year ago, when the owner and board decided my assistant i had trained for 10 years, was ready to take my spot....i got 6 months severance....no golden parachute

What you hear about in the news, and what happens in the real world are usually two radically different things. I have now moved on to my own business....where i make the rules, and i control the purse strings. And as i said in the minimum wage thread, i refuse to overpay for labor. Each job is worth x to me....you want to make more, learn more, and become more valuable to me, and my business.

This is the best response I've seen to my post. And I did look it up. One site showed your pay around the average, another showed it more than double that. I worked for a Fortune 500 company, and my familiarity is what those executives made, especially when factoring in bonuses. The thread title talks about CEOs making 486 times the amount of their average employee. My company was probably closer to 300x. Obviously, you weren't anywhere near that level of compensation, and your income beyond the average employee was not anywhere close to the numbers mentioned. In addition, you had an "owner" to answer to... So I assume your company was not publicly held.

So maybe I should qualify my statement to publicy held company CEOs. Income discrepancy widened throughout my career (1981 to 2019). Today, the greed seems even more rampant. Matching amounts for 401Ks are minimal. I recall these being matched between 50 and 100%. Pensions are almost non-existent. Add to that, the fact that many people can barely pay rent off a single salary - both my daughter and son are in this situation. The average American has much less spending power. I've heard people say that hefty Executive pay doesn't affect the pay of other employees. Having worked for a Fortune 500 company, I say BS to that. There was a pot of money for pay increases, and the amount was usually similar to the previous year's amount. The more the CEOs and executives took from that pot of money, the less available for the worker bees.
 
"Rich" is a very relative term when speaking of history.

Not being tied to a greedy landlord would represent being "rich" to many of those coming over.

Not everybody has a bottomless need for status and its rewards.

Monks take pride in the vows of poverty and silence, for higher status in the eyes of god, and of course the status to enter heaven.

Wealth is always relative, however, your assumption that there are different levels of drive to attain wealth is correct. Not everyone has the desires and drive to attain uber wealth. Some are accepting of much less. So what? That doesn't make the uber wealthy evil as progressives like to claim.

Andrew Carnegie was robber baron, committing and ordering murders to attain his wealth, suppressing worker's wanting safety on the job, better pay, healthcare, by all and every means possible. He murdered competitors, or ordered their murders and the same for union leaders. During his latter years he tried to buy his way into heaven with philanthropy. Today, many revere him for the good he did, and ignore the harm. His life is for neither of us to judge, no matter how disgusting we find his early life to have been. If there is a god, then that was who he answered to. If not, nothing changes. If so, nothing changes.
 
A big part of what's wrong with America. Does anybody believe that these CEOs work 150-500 times harder than their employees?

Top Bank CEOs Questioned About Their Pay In House Hearing : NPR

The heads of some of the nation's biggest banks faced tough questions from Democrats on Wednesday about overdraft fees, the stability of the banking system and their own multimillion-dollar compensation.

The House Financial Services Committee hearing was titled, "Holding Megabanks Accountable: A Review of Global Systemically Important Banks 10 years after the Financial Crisis."

"Ten years ago, the CEOs appeared before this very committee to discuss the financial crisis and the massive bailout taxpayers provided," said committee Chairwoman Maxine Waters, D-Calif. "A decade later, what have they learned? Are they helping their customers and working to benefit the communities they serve? Or are the practices of these banks still causing harm?"


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lol I'd feel like "I want to be da boss man"....


So I did it.
 
A big part of what's wrong with America. Does anybody believe that these CEOs work 150-500 times harder than their employees?

Top Bank CEOs Questioned About Their Pay In House Hearing : NPR

The heads of some of the nation's biggest banks faced tough questions from Democrats on Wednesday about overdraft fees, the stability of the banking system and their own multimillion-dollar compensation.

The House Financial Services Committee hearing was titled, "Holding Megabanks Accountable: A Review of Global Systemically Important Banks 10 years after the Financial Crisis."

"Ten years ago, the CEOs appeared before this very committee to discuss the financial crisis and the massive bailout taxpayers provided," said committee Chairwoman Maxine Waters, D-Calif. "A decade later, what have they learned? Are they helping their customers and working to benefit the communities they serve? Or are the practices of these banks still causing harm?"


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If what I was making let me fat, dumb, and happy I wouldn't give a crap.

If it didn't I wouldn't stay with them in the first place, regardless what they made.
 
A big part of what's wrong with America. Does anybody believe that these CEOs work 150-500 times harder than their employees?

Top Bank CEOs Questioned About Their Pay In House Hearing : NPR

The heads of some of the nation's biggest banks faced tough questions from Democrats on Wednesday about overdraft fees, the stability of the banking system and their own multimillion-dollar compensation.

The House Financial Services Committee hearing was titled, "Holding Megabanks Accountable: A Review of Global Systemically Important Banks 10 years after the Financial Crisis."

"Ten years ago, the CEOs appeared before this very committee to discuss the financial crisis and the massive bailout taxpayers provided," said committee Chairwoman Maxine Waters, D-Calif. "A decade later, what have they learned? Are they helping their customers and working to benefit the communities they serve? Or are the practices of these banks still causing harm?"


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What is the (politically?) correct ratio of CEO pay to their average employee's pay? Why do you think that is not currently part of US labor law? Does it make sense that a college football coach makes many times the salary of the POTUS?
 
A big part of what's wrong with America. Does anybody believe that these CEOs work 150-500 times harder than their employees?

Harder is irrelevant. It's whether or not they are providing that much more value to the people who are purchasing their labor. I can do difficult work digging a hole with my shovel, and be much less valuable than the guy who can sit easily in a comfortable position as he maneuvers the digger.


Mostly, I find complaints like this to be a cheap appeal to our worst instincts. There's a reason why they had to have the 10th Commandment.
 
The more the CEOs and executives took from that pot of money, the less available for the worker bees.

The less available for the shareholders. For publicly traded companies it is up to the shareholders to object to CEO compensation, and they get to vote on that compensation. To assume the difference in money not given as compensation to a CEO or other executives would go to other employees is absurd at best. Dividends and share buybacks, other investments would be the likely choices for the shareholders, not increased employee compensation.

If you doubt this hypothesis, examine the history of activist shareholders who dismantled companies for the value of their parts greater than the whole, leaving the workers in the lurch, again and again and again. This was just done with GE, one of leaders of the DOW. With the claim that parts were liabilities, the company divested those parts, with huge sums of cash going to those who oversaw the divestitures, dismantling this once great company into a shadow of itself, and workers spun off to god know where. However, the company coffers are flush with cash, debt is gone, and now the company is free to rebuild in the age of robotics and AI and the hell with the workers. Those investors who understood what was being done, walked away with great wealth, and those who were blind suffered like the workers. So it goes. No government could have stopped the stripping of the great white elephant to become a phoenix. The rise and renewal of GE will take time, but it will be free of the unions and the workers. It may succeed, or it may fail. But the workers are still history.

The value of Sears was the Real Estate it controlled. Show me how the workers shared in that dispersal of wealth.

Ignorance of the business world is no excuse for cockamamie declarations. No matter, the Queen bee survives, the worker bees are expendable. Justice and righteousness has nothing to do with any business outcome or decisions, no matter pressures from whiners.
 
Preface:
I want to be very clear that I have vastly different views about guys like (1) Ellison, Buffett, Gates and others who found firms and afterwards realize huge returns from having done so, and (2) CEOs whom firms hire and who are "mere" employees.
  • The folks in "Group 1" rightly deserve however many millions/billions they get, and what they get -- "in the end," so to speak; not what they get as "salary" -- should, IMO, have little to nothing to do with employee pay. It's their firm; they're thus entitled to make a boatload from it. I'm not about to say what compensation a controlling/founding owner of a firm should or shouldn't reap.
  • The folks in "Group 2," IMO, deserve very good compensation; however, I think their compensation and that of all the firm's other employees needs to be granted in recognition of a host of equitability factors that don't apply to founding owners.
There is a huge contextual difference between the folks in those two groups of CEOs. That said, that contextual difference doesn't factor into my equitability assessment of the disparity in compensation packages banking (or many other) CEOs receive and that given to their "lesser" brethren in the same firms. It doesn't because such CEOs are just part of the hired help.


Main Post:
In the abstract, I haven't a problem with banking CEOs' huge compensation packages; however, regarding the compensation structures at major US banks, there's a real problem. The problem is that even as banks saw 135% profit increases between the Great Recession and the present, haven't allocated to their rank and file employees an equitable share of that increase, yet CEOs have received at least an equitable, if not more than equitable, share of it.

Without very closely examining each bank CEO's specific undertakings on behalf of his/her employer, I can't say whether any given CEO is overpaid or not. But the problem isn't whether CEOs are overpaid; it's whether the folks far below are underpaid, particularly with regard to their employer's ability to pay and yield fine returns for the owners. When rank and file employees aren't paid enough so that even if they life frugally they simply cannot make ends meet, yet their employer realizes tens of billions in net income, the firm is simply not being fair. Simply, the cost of paying employees enough so they can make ends meet, in the locale where one employs them, is a cost of doing business and it needs to be treated as such.

Moreover, there's no way round it being absurd to think a firm (bank or otherwise) compensating its CEO with a $20M/year package attracts any better CEO talent than does one that offers but half that or even a quarter of that. I mean, really. After a couple years of $5M/year compensation, one effectively runs out of "quality-of-life" things to buy, unless one literally has no sense of restraint. At that point, about all there is to do with one's money is invest it to make it grow. Even well below those sums, factors other than gross compensation drive one's choice to work "here or there," because at a certain certain level, one's lifestyle doesn't get better because one earns more.

In the two-million-dollar-plus annual income levels, more income merely increases one's net worth, which is retained earnings, and retained earnings have nothing to do with the quality of life one lives. Folks with $50M net worth don't "sleep more soundly" than do folks having $500M or $5B in net worth. Why? Because at all three levels of wealth (net worth), one can afford a very pleasant lifestyle, one whereby the only things one might not be able to afford are so extravagant as to be irrelevant to one's quality of life.

For example...Access to transportation is a quality of life factor. One can say that having access to personal instantaneous on-demand transportation makes for a better quality of life than does not having such. So, for most folks, having a reliable car makes for a better lifestyle than does not having one; however, having an S-Class does not make for a better lifestyle than does having a Malibu. The MB may make one's life feel more luxurious, but it doesn't make one's life better. At some point between an Malibu and an S-Class, one moves from the point of one's car improving one's quality of life to it being a mere indulgence pursued because one can.

The same lifestyle law of diminishing returns applies to everything else money can buy. Because it does is why firms like the banks the OP-er noted should cease with the "CEO pay race" and instead race to make sure their rank and file employees aren't struggling to make ends meet.
 
Harder is irrelevant. It's whether or not they are providing that much more value to the people who are purchasing their labor. I can do difficult work digging a hole with my shovel, and be much less valuable than the guy who can sit easily in a comfortable position as he maneuvers the digger.


Mostly, I find complaints like this to be a cheap appeal to our worst instincts. There's a reason why they had to have the 10th Commandment.

I’m coming late to this party, but the guy with the power equipment needs a higher ROI than the guy that brings the entrenching tool to work.....
 
The % increase aspect is something I try to bring up when discussing income disparity.

IMO, in a functioning economy, a rising tide should lift all boats at about the same rate. A "boat" being a fully participating member of the economy, doing something full time that needs to be done.

It was that way for a long time. Then it suddenly wasn't. It became technologically feasible to take advantage of far cheaper labor, so businesses did that. Investments in automation made it possible to use less labor, so businesses did that.

Now some boats are lifting like a flat earth and others have been flat for decades, adjusted for inflation.

Its a problem that's going to take some creative thinking.

Red:
When I wrote them and opted not to expound on the details of what I meant, I wondered whether someone might latch on to that allusion in my "X%" remarks. Mind, I bear no grudge for your thinking I may have meant all employees should receive the same (or nearly so) rates of increase, but that isn't what I meant. I'll explain.

In my own firm, I defined ranges of base pay for all staff positions, and I hired people in at sums within those ranges. When base pay increases were assigned, employees' increases were based on their performance level:
  • Exceeds expectations --> Highest increase rates
  • Meets expectations --> Standard increase rates
  • Does not meet expectations A --> No increase
  • Does not meet expectations B --> One is let go
  • Note:
    It was different for myself and my partners (non-employees), for our income, since we were the firm's owners, was based on firm income as a whole. Basically, when the firm made more, the larger was the pot of partner-allocable income, and, in turn, we made more. If the firm brought in less in the following year, well, the pot was smaller, and we earned less. In contrast, our employees' base compensation didn't depend directly on firm revenue; however, firm revenue affected the total sum available for staff increases.
The standard increase was, even in the very tight years around 9/11, always something reasonable, never less than 5%, but always less than the lowest increase rate accorded to folks in the highest rate group. To folks in both increase-rate groups, we accorded a little more to those we felt, for whatever subjective reasons we partners agreed upon, deserved a little more than their peers in the same group.

So, did everyone get the same rate of increase? No, but everyone who got one, even at the lowest increase rate, got a reasonable increase. That said, I and my partners were committed to finding ways to "share the wealth" when it came to incentive/bonus pay we earned from our clients. Between the base pay, which was competitive, and the incentive allocations, nobody had any reason to feel they didn't get an equitable share of the revenue/profit they helped generate. Could we partners have retained more of the firm's take for ourselves? We could have; we just felt doing so wasn't right because doing so wasn't going to change our lives and granting it to our staff made a difference for them.

Does every firm have the ability to exhibit largesse of that sort? Probably not, but the point is that we did have the ability to do so; thus we did so. That's really all I expect of firms, be they ones like the banks noted in the OP, or other firms of vast means. There's no way in hell those banks don't have the ability to do so, yet it's obvious they don't do so.
 
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A big part of what's wrong with America. Does anybody believe that these CEOs work 150-500 times harder than their employees?

Top Bank CEOs Questioned About Their Pay In House Hearing : NPR

The heads of some of the nation's biggest banks faced tough questions from Democrats on Wednesday about overdraft fees, the stability of the banking system and their own multimillion-dollar compensation.

The House Financial Services Committee hearing was titled, "Holding Megabanks Accountable: A Review of Global Systemically Important Banks 10 years after the Financial Crisis."

"Ten years ago, the CEOs appeared before this very committee to discuss the financial crisis and the massive bailout taxpayers provided," said committee Chairwoman Maxine Waters, D-Calif. "A decade later, what have they learned? Are they helping their customers and working to benefit the communities they serve? Or are the practices of these banks still causing harm?"


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In America you are free to not work for people who make more money than you. Do you accept this?
 
Red:
I'm sure your sardonicism comes from the heart, so to speak; however, it's clear to me that you really haven't any idea of the nature of pressure concomitant with being a major firm's C-something, division president, or EVP of "this or that."

Consider this:
Senior-level employee has huge degrees of discretionary decision making authority. Accordingly, they can and routinely do make decisions -- decisions to act and decisions to not take certain actions -- that can bring their firm to its knees. One need only look, for example, at household name firms that have gone belly up, or near as makes no difference. Sears. K-Mart. Toys-R-Us. Pan-Am. Kodak. Palm. Vertu. Oldsmobile. Pontiac. Saturn. Hummer. Maybach. A&P. Merry-Go-Round. Arthur Andersen. General Foods. Nine West. Radio Shack. The Limited. A host of poor decisions at the senior executive level dumped those firms into the dustbin of American corporate history.

In contrast, I can't think of any firm that "went south" on account of bad decisions made by a rank and file employee. Can you?

Now you may not think that senior execs feel a lot of pressure not to screw up so badly that they put thousands of folks out of work, but I can assure you that a great many do. (And, yes, I know Trump isn't such a CEO, but by the same token, Trump would never be tapped to be CEO of a publicly traded firm.)​

Am I throwing a "pity party" of sorts for CEOs and other senior corporate execs? Of course, not. I'm saying that while the perqs, so to speak, they enjoy are visible and lavish, there's usually a good reason for them.

For instance, my firm didn't provide me with a corporate jet, but I often enough (not always) flew charter because it meant I could get to where I needed to be when I needed to be there. For instance, when the exec to whom I had to make a sales pitch said he had two hours tomorrow between one and three and that he'd be in Chicago, if that meant, given my extant schedule of other commitments -- commitments with folks every bit as important to my practice as the meeting with the guy in Chicago -- the only way I'd get there during his window was to take a charter, I took a charter flight.

Was the flight/plane cushy? Yes, but the point of being on that plane wasn't the cush; it was to facilitate getting where I needed to be when I needed to be there. Nobody gives a damn how the operator outfits the plane. What people care about is the transportation; cush or no cush, they're still getting on that plane.

Now that's work-related stuff/travel. Personal travel is a different matter.

And the executives that drove those companies into the ground made out like bandits in doing so...reaping bonuses, safe in their golden parachutes...while the underpaid rank and file became the unpaid rank and file.

You're not selling your cases here.
 
Preface:
I want to be very clear that I have vastly different views about guys like (1) Ellison, Buffett, Gates and others who found firms and afterwards realize huge returns from having done so, and (2) CEOs whom firms hire and who are "mere" employees.
  • The folks in "Group 1" rightly deserve however many millions/billions they get, and what they get -- "in the end," so to speak; not what they get as "salary" -- should, IMO, have little to nothing to do with employee pay. It's their firm; they're thus entitled to make a boatload from it. I'm not about to say what compensation a controlling/founding owner of a firm should or shouldn't reap.
  • The folks in "Group 2," IMO, deserve very good compensation; however, I think their compensation and that of all the firm's other employees needs to be granted in recognition of a host of equitability factors that don't apply to founding owners.
There is a huge contextual difference between the folks in those two groups of CEOs. That said, that contextual difference doesn't factor into my equitability assessment of the disparity in compensation packages banking (or many other) CEOs receive and that given to their "lesser" brethren in the same firms. It doesn't because such CEOs are just part of the hired help.


Main Post:
In the abstract, I haven't a problem with banking CEOs' huge compensation packages; however, regarding the compensation structures at major US banks, there's a real problem. The problem is that even as banks saw 135% profit increases between the Great Recession and the present, haven't allocated to their rank and file employees an equitable share of that increase, yet CEOs have received at least an equitable, if not more than equitable, share of it.

Without very closely examining each bank CEO's specific undertakings on behalf of his/her employer, I can't say whether any given CEO is overpaid or not. But the problem isn't whether CEOs are overpaid; it's whether the folks far below are underpaid, particularly with regard to their employer's ability to pay and yield fine returns for the owners. When rank and file employees aren't paid enough so that even if they life frugally they simply cannot make ends meet, yet their employer realizes tens of billions in net income, the firm is simply not being fair. Simply, the cost of paying employees enough so they can make ends meet, in the locale where one employs them, is a cost of doing business and it needs to be treated as such.

Moreover, there's no way round it being absurd to think a firm (bank or otherwise) compensating its CEO with a $20M/year package attracts any better CEO talent than does one that offers but half that or even a quarter of that. I mean, really. After a couple years of $5M/year compensation, one effectively runs out of "quality-of-life" things to buy, unless one literally has no sense of restraint. At that point, about all there is to do with one's money is invest it to make it grow. Even well below those sums, factors other than gross compensation drive one's choice to work "here or there," because at a certain certain level, one's lifestyle doesn't get better because one earns more.

In the two-million-dollar-plus annual income levels, more income merely increases one's net worth, which is retained earnings, and retained earnings have nothing to do with the quality of life one lives. Folks with $50M net worth don't "sleep more soundly" than do folks having $500M or $5B in net worth. Why? Because at all three levels of wealth (net worth), one can afford a very pleasant lifestyle, one whereby the only things one might not be able to afford are so extravagant as to be irrelevant to one's quality of life.

For example...Access to transportation is a quality of life factor. One can say that having access to personal instantaneous on-demand transportation makes for a better quality of life than does not having such. So, for most folks, having a reliable car makes for a better lifestyle than does not having one; however, having an S-Class does not make for a better lifestyle than does having a Malibu. The MB may make one's life feel more luxurious, but it doesn't make one's life better. At some point between an Malibu and an S-Class, one moves from the point of one's car improving one's quality of life to it being a mere indulgence pursued because one can.

The same lifestyle law of diminishing returns applies to everything else money can buy. Because it does is why firms like the banks the OP-er noted should cease with the "CEO pay race" and instead race to make sure their rank and file employees aren't struggling to make ends meet.

This, I agree with.

Guy who has worked for a company for 6 minutes is not worth 200 times more than even the janitor.
 
Red:
I'm sure your sardonicism comes from the heart, so to speak; however, it's clear to me that you really haven't any idea of the nature of pressure concomitant with being a major firm's C-something, division president, or EVP of "this or that."

Consider this:
Senior-level employee has huge degrees of discretionary decision making authority. Accordingly, they can and routinely do make decisions -- decisions to act and decisions to not take certain actions -- that can bring their firm to its knees. One need only look, for example, at household name firms that have gone belly up, or near as makes no difference. Sears. K-Mart. Toys-R-Us. Pan-Am. Kodak. Palm. Vertu. Oldsmobile. Pontiac. Saturn. Hummer. Maybach. A&P. Merry-Go-Round. Arthur Andersen. General Foods. Nine West. Radio Shack. The Limited. A host of poor decisions at the senior executive level dumped those firms into the dustbin of American corporate history.

In contrast, I can't think of any firm that "went south" on account of bad decisions made by a rank and file employee. Can you?

Now you may not think that senior execs feel a lot of pressure not to screw up so badly that they put thousands of folks out of work, but I can assure you that a great many do. (And, yes, I know Trump isn't such a CEO, but by the same token, Trump would never be tapped to be CEO of a publicly traded firm.)​

Am I throwing a "pity party" of sorts for CEOs and other senior corporate execs? Of course, not. I'm saying that while the perqs, so to speak, they enjoy are visible and lavish, there's usually a good reason for them.

For instance, my firm didn't provide me with a corporate jet, but I often enough (not always) flew charter because it meant I could get to where I needed to be when I needed to be there. For instance, when the exec to whom I had to make a sales pitch said he had two hours tomorrow between one and three and that he'd be in Chicago, if that meant, given my extant schedule of other commitments -- commitments with folks every bit as important to my practice as the meeting with the guy in Chicago -- the only way I'd get there during his window was to take a charter, I took a charter flight.

Was the flight/plane cushy? Yes, but the point of being on that plane wasn't the cush; it was to facilitate getting where I needed to be when I needed to be there. Nobody gives a damn how the operator outfits the plane. What people care about is the transportation; cush or no cush, they're still getting on that plane.

Now that's work-related stuff/travel. Personal travel is a different matter.

How many failed CEO's suffer financial hardship due to their failures? When they fail big, their golden parachute works just fine. Not so for the majority of employees who simply lose their jobs.
 
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