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We Already Know There Was Collusion

Integrityrespec said:
Not all Republicans loved McCain. To honor the man for his service in the military and to believe he was a good Congressman or made good or bad decisions are two separate things. McCain wasn't my first or eve second pick to be the nominee for Republicans. I voted for him because he was the nominee and I prefer Republican/Conservative policies above Liberal/Democrats. I didn't care for how he ran his campaign, and I didn't like some of his voting decisions in the Senate.
To be fair, I think Trump should let the McCain thing go at this point. The two men did not like each other and I think both are to blame in that relationship.
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I didn't like him.
only reason i voted for him was because of obama.
 
madasheck said:
Same advice to you. Keep up the denial. It ain't over yet.
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Innocent until proven guilty isn't denial, its the basis for our justice system. Whereas you are basing your judgment on political confirmation bias and sour grapes.
 
ludin said:
do you care to recant now?

"The Special Counsel did not find that any U.S. person or Trump campaign official or associate conspired or knowingly coordinated" with Russians who worked on those hacking efforts, according to Barr's letter, "despite multiple offers from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign."

Aaccording to Barr's letter, "The special counsel's investigation did not find that the Trump campaign or anyone associated with it conspired or coordinated with Russia in its effort" to interfere with the 2016 presidential election in that manner.

no there is no fact of collusion in fact there is no evidence of collusion at all.
you are 100% wrong.

also no evidence of obstruction either.

so you are wrong there as well.
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Yes I am happy to accept the finding that the Trump campaign did not collude with the Russians. That's all we have for the time being and if it is indeed the final word, that's how it will stay. Just reading my post again would have confirmed that.

As for Barr's spin on obstruction, that's a 'wait and see': remember we only have Trump's guy's opinion of the report to go on, not the report itself.

As for all the other criminality being investigated, jury's still out.
 
uptower said:
It is more or less established fact now that the Trump Campaign colluded with foreign agents. What we're waiting on is answers as to what extent Trump himself knew about this and was involved, and therefore the reasons for the other thing we already know: why he has been obstructing justice the whole time.

From the first story:

"The president’s shouts of “no collusion” cannot be accurately applied to the man he picked to chair his campaign. Manafort was in cahoots with a fellow alleged to have ties with Russian intelligence, and through this person Manafort was apparently communicating with a Putin ally about a policy issue crucial for the Kremlin, as Putin was underhandedly assisting the Trump campaign. This all comes across as a secret orgy of back-scratching—that is, collusion."
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You have confused Trump for Clinton.

The Mueller investigation had 19 lawyers, 40 FBI agents plus analyists, accountants, and other staff, issuing 2,800 subpoenas, 500 search warrants and 500 interviews. The report did not find that anyone with the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with any Russians to influence the election. It did find that Russians hacked into Clinton's and the DNC's unsecured email accounts (thus the “recklessness of Clinton benefited Russians – though doesn't point out that obvious aspect.)
 
uptower said:
Yes I am happy to accept the finding that the Trump campaign did not collude with the Russians. That's all we have for the time being and if it is indeed the final word, that's how it will stay. Just reading my post again would have confirmed that.

As for Barr's spin on obstruction, that's a 'wait and see': remember we only have Trump's guy's opinion of the report to go on, not the report itself.

As for all the other criminality being investigated, jury's still out.
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No, Barr stated in his letter that obstruction of justice will not be pursued and it Barr's decision to make.

As for other criminality, all but one accusation of New York state offenses and any other has nothing to do with President Trump. The only one possibly relevant is the claim he falsely claimed the value of assets for loans. That's nothing on its face. I say my house is worth $500,000 as collateral for a $400,000 loan.

You claim my house is only worth $250,000 so I committed a crime. Yet what my house is worth is anyone's guess and that couldn't be known unless I have a contract to sell it 1 second before signing that loan application. Maybe my house isn't worth $100,000. Maybe it's worth $1,000,000. All that is subjective - meaning it's nothing. They would have to PROVE that in his own mind Trump believed his assets were worth less than he claimed - and that's impossible.

What we are seeing is that Democrats seriously doubt Trump's re-election can be stopped so are desperate to find anything else. So far, everything the Democratic Party has claimed along those lines - all 1,000,001 times - has been false.

Ever read the story of the boy who falsely cried "wolf" too many times?
 
Excon said:
Apparently Mr. Mueller disagrees with you. :shrug:
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Manafort was already indicted and convicted of conspiring against the united states. So we know members of the campaign concluded with foreign entities. That was before the Mueller report came out. I should also not we haven't read what's in the report yet, only that no new indictments have been recommended.
 
joko104 said:
No, Barr stated in his letter that obstruction of justice will not be pursued and it Barr's decision to make.
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Congress may well disagree on the obstruction case, and we know Barr's mind was made up before, which is why he was hired. DOJ guidelines say the president can't be indicted and Barr is hiding behind that. A release of the report would solve these petty disagreements.
 
uptower said:
Manafort was already indicted and convicted of conspiring against the united states. So we know members of the campaign concluded with foreign entities. That was before the Mueller report came out. I should also not we haven't read what's in the report yet, only that no new indictments have been recommended.
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Not relevant.
What Manafort did has no relevance to the President, his campaign or the lack of evidence of collusion to influence this election.
 
MTAtech said:
He also said on Air Force One that he had no knowledge of the $130,000 check to Stormy Daniels. Now we know he was lying because we saw the reimbursement check.

You can't take anything Trump says at face value.
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All you know from the check is Trump wrote one, you don't know what it was for, salary, reimbursement of other payments Cohen may have made that didn't have a thing to do with "payoffs". You have no proof except the word of a convicted liar who is going to jail for criminal activity and lying to the FBI.
 
uptower said:
It is more or less established fact now that the Trump Campaign colluded with foreign agents. What we're waiting on is answers as to what extent Trump himself knew about this and was involved, and therefore the reasons for the other thing we already know: why he has been obstructing justice the whole time.

From the first story:

"The president’s shouts of “no collusion” cannot be accurately applied to the man he picked to chair his campaign. Manafort was in cahoots with a fellow alleged to have ties with Russian intelligence, and through this person Manafort was apparently communicating with a Putin ally about a policy issue crucial for the Kremlin, as Putin was underhandedly assisting the Trump campaign. This all comes across as a secret orgy of back-scratching—that is, collusion."
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:lamo
Really man. Time to grow up a bit and realize reality.
 
It is predictable that, like with the reversal on Comey, it is predictable that many of the leftwing MSM, the press and Democrat officials and partisans will increasingly attack Robert Mueller and his entire team. Just like most Democrats hated Comey before they loved him, most leftwings who loved Mueller and his team so much now will increasingly attack him.
 
joko104 said:
It is predictable that, like with the reversal on Comey, it is predictable that many of the leftwing MSM, the press and Democrat officials and partisans will increasingly attack Robert Mueller and his entire team. Just like most Democrats hated Comey before they loved him, most leftwings who loved Mueller and his team so much now will increasingly attack him.
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You are correct Sir.
This is because...these whiney little bitches don't give a rat's ass who they destroy or what laws they break.
It all worth it to them. The goal justifies any means.

As for me...I just wanna see this again...

I love that twit.
 
MTAtech said:
He also said on Air Force One that he had no knowledge of the $130,000 check to Stormy Daniels. Now we know he was lying because we saw the reimbursement check.

You can't take anything Trump says at face value.
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I wouldn't know if there was collusion or not. None of us do. But I do know that I don't think that because Trump says so, like his Fan Club believes. Trump has been proven to be a liar. I would discount any statement he makes on anything.
 
joko104 said:
It is predictable that, like with the reversal on Comey, it is predictable that many of the leftwing MSM, the press and Democrat officials and partisans will increasingly attack Robert Mueller and his entire team. Just like most Democrats hated Comey before they loved him, most leftwings who loved Mueller and his team so much now will increasingly attack him.
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Please post a link so we can all see the leftwing MSM, "Democrat officials" and partisans who are increasingly attacking Mueller and his entire team.
 
tres borrachos said:
I wouldn't know if there was collusion or not. None of us do. But I do know that I don't think that because Trump says so, like his Fan Club believes. Trump has been proven to be a liar. I would discount any statement he makes on anything.
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Which of course is why he did everything he could to avoid in person interviews under oath. He would not have been able to control himself for 20 minutes let alone 2 hours.
 
tres borrachos said:
I wouldn't know if there was collusion or not. None of us do. But I do know that I don't think that because Trump says so, like his Fan Club believes. Trump has been proven to be a liar. I would discount any statement he makes on anything.
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We know there was collusion, but the evidence is insufficient to prove conspiracy.
 
Manc Skipper said:
We know there was collusion, but the evidence is insufficient to prove conspiracy.
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I know there's a Santa Clause. but the evidence is insufficient to prove it...:lamo
 
uptower said:
It is more or less established fact now that the Trump Campaign colluded with foreign agents. What we're waiting on is answers as to what extent Trump himself knew about this and was involved, and therefore the reasons for the other thing we already know: why he has been obstructing justice the whole time.

From the first story:

"The president’s shouts of “no collusion” cannot be accurately applied to the man he picked to chair his campaign. Manafort was in cahoots with a fellow alleged to have ties with Russian intelligence, and through this person Manafort was apparently communicating with a Putin ally about a policy issue crucial for the Kremlin, as Putin was underhandedly assisting the Trump campaign. This all comes across as a secret orgy of back-scratching—that is, collusion."
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Collusion simply didn't happen.

But let's pretend it did. It's not a crime anyway.

I'd bet you still think Smollett was attacked by white men in MAGA hats.

The evidence is just as strong for both.
 
Once again we learn that the Democratic Party and liberals have done all they can to falsely trash our government and country to the rest of the world with a 24/7 avalanche of lies and distortions - and despite the report revealing it all lies they still are doing so today. In real terms, the greatest enemy the United States has is the Democratic Party - the enemy within.
 
tres borrachos said:
I wouldn't know if there was collusion or not. None of us do. But I do know that I don't think that because Trump says so, like his Fan Club believes. Trump has been proven to be a liar. I would discount any statement he makes on anything.
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The devil is in the details of the Mueller report. What we need to remember is that {special} prosecutors investigate and prosecute crimes. There may be wrongdoing that doesn't fit neatly in Title 18 of the United States Code. Would Americans be satisfied if it was known that their president committed wrongdoing, such as obstruction of justice and feather-bedding -- as well as collusion between his family and the Russians, as long as it didn't reach the level of criminal code violation? If so, it would be a severe lowing of the bar (Barr?) not accepted for other presidents.
 
uptower said:
It is more or less established fact now that the Trump Campaign colluded with foreign agents. What we're waiting on is answers as to what extent Trump himself knew about this and was involved, and therefore the reasons for the other thing we already know: why he has been obstructing justice the whole time.

From the first story:

"The president’s shouts of “no collusion” cannot be accurately applied to the man he picked to chair his campaign. Manafort was in cahoots with a fellow alleged to have ties with Russian intelligence, and through this person Manafort was apparently communicating with a Putin ally about a policy issue crucial for the Kremlin, as Putin was underhandedly assisting the Trump campaign. This all comes across as a secret orgy of back-scratching—that is, collusion."
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We know your message is false by the Mueller report. But, then, you claim you know more than 19 of his lawyers with over 100 years of investigation experience, more than the 40 FBI agents and more than all the other analysts and accountants. Ain't you smart!
 
jonny5 said:
Collusion isnt a crime. No one CAN be charged with it.
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I know, I remember making that point a couple years ago. But that is the word that everyone is using. BUt if you prefer conspiracy, lets use that. How many members of the Trump camp have been charged with conspiracy with regard to Russia? Answer: Zero.
 
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