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ICE Set Up A Fake College To Bust Immigrants For Trying To Legally Stay In The Country While They Ea

Skeptic Bob said:
If they are taking money for services not intended to be rendered, isn't that fraud?
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Oh looky....

FROM THE WASHINGTON POST:
The phony university was “being used by foreign citizens as a ‘pay to play’ scheme,” prosecutors allege. After forking over thousands of dollars, students would provide immigration authorities with evidence that they were enrolled in a full-time educational program. They could then continue to live and work in the United States under a student visa. But since the University of Farmington didn’t exist, they didn’t have the hassle of writing papers, taking tests or showing up to class.

Students knew that the scheme was illegal “and that discretion should be used when discussing the program with others,” prosecutors wrote in their indictment, which was filed Jan. 15 in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan.
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DarkWizard12 said:
Don't we also primarily waste american's time in the hopes of catching a few pedophiles in sting operations just like this? I hardly see the difference. If they're following the law, they're fine. If they're not, they'll be dealt with accordingly.
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DarkWizard12 said:
Some of us think it's morally bankrupt to come here illegally, when we have a visa/immigration process they can go through, like everyone else. Must we always live in the days of the late 1800's-1930's great migrations and the chaos that brought? We have a system now, people should use it.
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So the federal government should defraud hundreds of Americans and ruin 6 months of their academic careers in the hopes of snagging a few illegals. You sound like a terrible person with no morals and poor ideas.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
So the federal government should defraud hundreds of Americans and ruin 6 months of their academic careers in the hopes of snagging a few illegals. You sound like a terrible person with no morals and poor ideas.
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It's not fraud if they return the application fees.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
So the Americans who applied it knowing better, paid their tuition and tried to show up to class should at that point have known it was a scam, perpetrated by the government? Their semester is kind of screwed at that point isn't it? Kind of hard to switch to a legitimate college at that point. The things you people will defend is astounding. The government defrauding Americans as a fishing scheme for illegals.

Oh yeah, so after these Americans and legal immigrants found out it was a scam run by the government, they were "released", how gracious of them! Sure their semester is ****ed and time was severely wasted, but any scheme no matter how immoral and how many Americans it screws is worth it if we catch a few illegals right?
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"You people"? Really?

As I said, I'd like to hear some more details, although they may not release all the information on how it worked. I'd like to think they try to avoid wrapping up US citizens more than necessary. (Maybe by declining their applications?) Legal international students (they aren't immigrating), legitimately seeking an education, should also have been warned off. And I think most people earnestly seeking an education would have figured it out, and looked elsewhere.

Again, there were no classes. There was no school - an office suite and a post office. Students were told there were no classes, but that they would be considered enrolled. No one showed up anywhere. Most (if not all) didn't even live there, but were doing all this by email.

It is a little sleazy, but I understand (I think) what they were trying to do. It's like dressing up a police officer and sending her out as a fake prostitute. There are 'real' fake companies who do this exact scam, and take advantage of real people. Those companies really do circumvent our system, and really do hurt people. ICE is trying to make it harder for these real scammers to do business.
 
Oborosen said:
All in all, I like that those who were found to not be breaking the law. Were just released after the fact was discovered, though I don't think this is that good of a sting for what kind of criminal is being searched for.

We've seen law enforcement catch felons who attempted to turn in a "winning" lottery number, or claim a "prize" they received online. But they just need to find a better means to catch illegal immigrants other then this tactic.
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I just responded to another - but I agree that there are probably better ways to catch people. The goal of this was likely not to actually catch anyone, but to plant the seeds of distrust and make it harder for the 'real' scam artists to operate. They want this to be noisy, and for the defendants to raise a stink. They want everyone to know that when they enroll at one of these fake colleges, it could be a sting.

As for those arrested and released, we don't know that they didn't break the law - they likely did, but the crime wasn't as serious, and they were released in exchange for self deportation.

I
 
Oborosen said:
False morality, does not an argument make.
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Morality, to a degree is subjective, although societies throughout history have deemed certain actions immoral.

What I posted is my opinion on the subject, which characterizes my moral judgement on the topic at hand.

You may disagree with me, but that is simply your opinion.

Too many times, those that profuse to be Christians, encourage acts that are in direct contrast to Jesus' teachings. Additionally, Republicans have claimed to be a more "moral" "family values" tribe.
It is the kind of responses displayed in this thread, that exposes their hypocrisy.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
Don't we also primarily waste american's time in the hopes of catching a few pedophiles in sting operations just like this? I hardly see the difference. If they're following the law, they're fine. If they're not, they'll be dealt with accordingly.
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Can you give an example of your assertion?

And are you really comparing a misdemeanor of overstaying a visa, and/or sneaking into a country....to traumatizing and raping kids?
 
dcsports said:
"You people"? Really?

As I said, I'd like to hear some more details, although they may not release all the information on how it worked. I'd like to think they try to avoid wrapping up US citizens more than necessary. (Maybe by declining their applications?) Legal international students (they aren't immigrating), legitimately seeking an education, should also have been warned off. And I think most people earnestly seeking an education would have figured it out, and looked elsewhere.

Again, there were no classes. There was no school - an office suite and a post office. Students were told there were no classes, but that they would be considered enrolled. No one showed up anywhere. Most (if not all) didn't even live there, but were doing all this by email.

It is a little sleazy, but I understand (I think) what they were trying to do. It's like dressing up a police officer and sending her out as a fake prostitute. There are 'real' fake companies who do this exact scam, and take advantage of real people. Those companies really do circumvent our system, and really do hurt people. ICE is trying to make it harder for these real scammers to do business.
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Here is a portion of an article on the subject that puts more information on the situation.

U of F was a completely fake university. No professors, no classes. But if you were a foreign national looking for paperwork that would qualify you for a student visa, this was just the ticket.

It was a scheme no less despicable than fake marriage mills of the past. This was a fake college set up by ICE in 2015, according to reports, but put into action when the Trump administration took over in February 2017 and went bonkers over immigration.

Did they get MS13 gang members? Find the drivers of the cars with the trunks full of bound and gagged women with duct taped mouths?

No.

They got ordinary folk looking for opportunity. People looking for education to advance their lives. But when they saw this deal they shrugged and went along.

They wanted to stay in America. Not to commit crimes. They just wanted to satisfy the immigration paper work requirements.

It was called operation “Paper Chase.”

And then they found something too good to be true. You pay money for a degree and you don’t have to study? And it gets you a student visa?

According to reports, there were dozens of arrests made among the 600 students who had signed up to participate. But, beyond students, there were “recruiters” who acted as community scouts to bring people in. Those recruiters also face federal conspiracy charges, and potentially five years in prison if convicted.

The sad thing is these people probably would have gone to a regular college and paid a little more if they didn’t see Farmington first.

Is it fair that they were lured by a government lie?

They fell for a fake school and are now are charged with real crimes with real consequences.

It’s some nasty business when ICE has to create criminals to catch.
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University of Farmington Sting Hurts Higher Ed More Than It Solves Immigration Crisis - Higher Education
 
Born Free said:
From your link
a majority of those swept up in ICE's sting were following the law.

The majority of those, what is the actual number, and what about those not following the law. So ICE sets up a phony university and rounds up a lot of immigrants, some are doing what is legal and let go, have a nice day, and the others are illegal and you come with me.

I take it you want the illegals to be let free.
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RabidAlpaca said:
You're defending the government setting up fake colleges to primarily waste Americans and legal immigrants time in the hopes they might catch a few illegals? What the hell is the matter with you?
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I'm sure he'd be perfect family to have his loved ones forcibly strip searched because hey, maybe if we do that to everyone we might find some drugs.



"Land of the free, home of the brave" my hairy ass.
 
Mr Person said:
I'm sure he'd be perfect family to have his loved ones forcibly strip searched because hey, maybe if we do that to everyone we might find some drugs.
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Not to make you out a liar, please prove ICE strip searched all those that were legal?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Jesus ****ing christ. ICE defrauds Americans and wastes 6 months of their time and you say "good, they have more study time". You are unbelievably morally bankrupt.
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No, I'm just not going to act as though I'm morally superior. This kind of thing has been going on for decades and you, for some reason. Just so happen to choose now to be the moment to be so faux outraged about it... yeah I'm not buying it and neither is anyone else if I'm so bold as to hazard such a guess.

These peoples lives weren't ruined and it's nothing that some patience cannot fix on their part.
 
dcsports said:
I just responded to another - but I agree that there are probably better ways to catch people. The goal of this was likely not to actually catch anyone, but to plant the seeds of distrust and make it harder for the 'real' scam artists to operate. They want this to be noisy, and for the defendants to raise a stink. They want everyone to know that when they enroll at one of these fake colleges, it could be a sting.

As for those arrested and released, we don't know that they didn't break the law - they likely did, but the crime wasn't as serious, and they were released in exchange for self deportation.

I
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I would more readily trust a different article fist. Because this one is just so loaded with the same "orange man bad" mentality. It's hard for me to think that all of what's being reported here is actually the way it happened.

Do you know of any other sites covering this?
 
Cramer said:
Morality, to a degree is subjective, although societies throughout history have deemed certain actions immoral.

What I posted is my opinion on the subject, which characterizes my moral judgement on the topic at hand.

You may disagree with me, but that is simply your opinion.

Too many times, those that profuse to be Christians, encourage acts that are in direct contrast to Jesus' teachings. Additionally, Republicans have claimed to be a more "moral" "family values" tribe.
It is the kind of responses displayed in this thread, that exposes their hypocrisy.
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Compassion has it's limits. Though to be honest, you've already sold this on a false premise. Because not all of these people are coming here to simply feed their children, or look for a better life. Many of the ones who get caught and then try to claim asylum, are not in fact, actually eligible for asylum and last I checked. That number of people actually consisted of a pretty decent portion of the whole group.

For my own part, I have no issue with conservatives. They've grown up over the last few decades, with even the Christina conservatives accepting gay marriage in numbers that I'd didn't readily expect. Though with a few outliers still holding out, which is still to be expected. I've seen the right as of the last five years, become far more tolerant than even the left, as it seems they just keep dropping down into some demented rabbit hole.
 
Winston said:
This is one that DEF has Trump's fingerprints all over it :lamo :lamo :lamo
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"The fake university had been set up in 2015 as part of an elaborate sting operation"

From WaPo. No Trump fingerprints there.:
 
Oborosen said:
Compassion has it's limits. Though to be honest, you've already sold this on a false premise. Because not all of these people are coming here to simply feed their children, or look for a better life. Many of the ones who get caught and then try to claim asylum, are not in fact, actually eligible for asylum and last I checked. That number of people actually consisted of a pretty decent portion of the whole group.
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Can you quantify the part in bold?

For my own part, I have no issue with conservatives. They've grown up over the last few decades, with even the Christina conservatives accepting gay marriage in numbers that I'd didn't readily expect. Though with a few outliers still holding out, which is still to be expected. I've seen the right as of the last five years, become far more tolerant than even the left, as it seems they just keep dropping down into some demented rabbit hole.
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I have many conservative friends...even a few Trumpsters. In general, I have no issue with conservatives. The world is a busy place, and politics is just a part of it.

The extremes on both sides are a nuisance....and at times, dangerous....

Climate change deniers, and Anti-vaxxers need to go the way of the dinosaur.
 
Oborosen said:
All in all, I like that those who were found to not be breaking the law. Were just released after the fact was discovered, though I don't think this is that good of a sting for what kind of criminal is being searched for.

We've seen law enforcement catch felons who attempted to turn in a "winning" lottery number, or claim a "prize" they received online. But they just need to find a better means to catch illegal immigrants other then this tactic.
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Fine/reward system for employers.

'Supply side" in other words.
 
Cramer said:
Can you quantify the part in bold?
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https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1060936/download

The current grant rate for asylum seekers in US cases is around 24%-32%. Though the issue here is that there are separate cases that come out registered as (Other) Which can be any case that is sent out to deferral in a federal court. Though it's also possible that these same cases are never finished.

This is the same document in which Sessions said that 20% of the cases brought up to the court actually merited relief. Though the number wasn't exactly as cut and dry as that, it was still rather close. Some of these people are set up for a court case and just never show up at the assigned date.



I have many conservative friends...even a few Trumpsters. In general, I have no issue with conservatives. The world is a busy place, and politics is just a part of it.

The extremes on both sides are a nuisance....and at times, dangerous....

Climate change deniers, and Anti-vaxxers need to go the way of the dinosaur.
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For the record I'm a skeptic, not a denier.
 
Winston said:
:lamo

what was the University named? El Trumpo University?

:lamo
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You mean the same fake university that conned our Vets. Trump must be so proud with his ripping off our fighting men and women.
 
Great idea by ICE - and nothing new. Police have been tricking criminals into turning themselves in for decades. They contact fugitives informing them they won a prize. Create all sorts of false information to get people to turn themselves in.

Here, the Sheriff's department asked people to bring in their meth and other illegal drugs so they could test them for dangerous contamination. Some people actually were stupid enough to show up at the Sheriff's Department with illegal drugs. Guess what the Sheriff's department did?

Sure, the Democratic Party will sob when criminals are captured. No surprise about that.

:lol:
 
yankintx said:
You mean the same fake university that conned our Vets. Trump must be so proud with his ripping off our fighting men and women.
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Trump is a smart guy. He saw how the state was making money off the public perception that going to school was the key to getting high salaries, and he got in on the scheme himself. I wish people better understood the fallacy of public opinion which drives so many poor kids to go to universities or schools which will not help them like they think.
 
The government sets up a fake college to trick people, but it wouldn't set up other fake events?

Stings and other staged events are what the government is all about. Without stings and staged events the war on terror could not survive.
 
Oborosen said:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1060936/download


The current grant rate for asylum seekers in US cases is around 24%-32%. Though the issue here is that there are separate cases that come out registered as (Other) Which can be any case that is sent out to deferral in a federal court. Though it's also possible that these same cases are never finished.

This is the same document in which Sessions said that 20% of the cases brought up to the court actually merited relief. Though the number wasn't exactly as cut and dry as that, it was still rather close. Some of these people are set up for a court case and just never show up at the assigned date.
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You are correct regarding asylum seekers. What I was also referring to was this:
Comparing someone who overstays their visa, or comes here to work, to send money home to their families due to horrendous conditions at home....to criminals that actually cause harm to people..
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You referred that as a false premise. And the data indicates the majority of those here illegally, and are not seeking asylum, are simply looking for work, for the reasons I stated above.

It is also true that the number of illegal crossings are significantly lower today, and has been trending downward for the last 2 decades.

According to the latest statistics from US Customs and Border Protection (CBP), 396,579 undocumented people were apprehended after entering the country illegally in 2018.

Another 124,511 people presented themselves at ports of entry, many seeking humanitarian protection, but immigration officials found them inadmissible.

In 2000, however, more than 1.6 million illegal border crossers were apprehended. In 2001, the figure was 1.3 million.
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Is the US in an 'illegal' immigration crisis? Border patrol data suggests otherwise | US news | The Guardian

For the record I'm a skeptic, not a denier.
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Skepticism is a healthy attribute.

What evidence supports your skepticism?
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Oborosen said:
I would more readily trust a different article fist. Because this one is just so loaded with the same "orange man bad" mentality. It's hard for me to think that all of what's being reported here is actually the way it happened.

Do you know of any other sites covering this?
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Technically this is an opinion piece, not a news article. But yes, you should be able to search for other articles covering it. There are quite a few.
 
Cramer said:
Here is a portion of an article on the subject that puts more information on the situation.



University of Farmington Sting Hurts Higher Ed More Than It Solves Immigration Crisis - Higher Education
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That's a blog - a biased opinion piece - not an article.

It does shed a little light though... the recruiters are facing conspiracy charges. They were probably the key targets of this scam - and the ones with charges remaining against them. You could call this sting heartless or slimy, but it sounds like they took some real criminals off the street that were really taking advantage of people.
 
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