FBI has evidence that Roger Stone was communicating with Wilkileaks directly

HumblePi said:

It's a shame that you and others have such little regard for the people that keep this country safe. As head of the FBI, Andrew McCabe was part of the investigation into Russia interfering with our election. Believe me, he had good reason to want to wire up and catch Trump. He knows what evidence they had, and when Trump pushes hard enough, we're all going to know what it is too. I don't think Trump or you will like it much.

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Born Free said:

So you have nothing, zip zero, nada to back up McCabe's claims except a bunch of BS, what if, maybe, etc.

I keep asking in bold what evidence did McCabe have as head of the FBI to warrant an investigation. Except his hatred of Trump. And I'm sure you know the Senate is starting an investigation into McCabe and others on this very subject. Your under the belief that the FBI can do no wrong, I remind you of J Edgar Hoover, in bold below sounds exactly like McCabe going after Trump because of his hatred of Trump

Born January 1, 1895, in Washington, D.C., J. Edgar Hoover joined the Justice Department in 1917 and was named director of the Department’s Bureau of Investigation in 1924. When the Bureau reorganized as the Federal Bureau of Investigation in 1935, Hoover instituted strenuous agent-recruiting and advanced intelligence-gathering techniques. During his tenure he confronted gangsters, Nazis and Communists. Later, Hoover ordered illegal surveillance against suspected enemies of the state and political opponents. Despite receiving harsh criticism from the public, Hoover remained director of the FBI until his death on May 2, 1972.

J. Edgar Hoover - Death, Facts & Life - Biography

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Athanasius68 said:

The original concern was the Trump campaign conspiring with Russia to fix the 2016.
Now we are reduced to wondering if Stone's alleged contacts with Wikileaks is significant to this end.

The problem continues: Mueller has charged nobody for his or her role in a conspiracy to fix the 2016 election. This includes Stone in his indictment. A belief that he will do it later is becoming more and more dubious.

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apdst said:

"Journalist" isn't a legal definition. The 1st Amendment applies to all citizens, equally.

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upsideguy said:

I suggest you re-read Mueller's charter. The "original concern" as you know it was but a subset of the "original concern". Mueller is executing to his mission, which is, and always has been, much broader than what you believe was the "original concern".

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3726381/Robert-Mueller-Special-Counsel-Russia.pdf

May I also point out the at investigation is on-going. Mueller thus far has played his cards very deliberately, including revealing a lot more of the conspiracy than you give him credit (including explaining how Wikileaks fit into the conspiracy - See July 2018 indictments, which I also suggest you actually read)

https://www.justice.gov/file/1080281/download

Remember, the evidence of collusion is in plain sight; proving it is the difficult part.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...edb0c92dc17_story.html?utm_term=.48fd92d8761b

In that regard, Mueller is not playing a game of poker, but a game of rummy. You don't know the cards that are really in his hand until he empties his hand.



Intent is everything. While one can tried to hide their crime of conspiracy behind the 1st amendment, it is not a defense for a real crime. This was not about freedom of the press.

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Athanasius68 said:

Oh please-- the concern in appointing Mueller wasn't whether Flynn had properly registered as a foreign agent...

The July 2018 indictments will never be seen inside of an American court. All it accomplished was making Russia 'not guilty' of interfering in the election.

When Mueller explains in his Stone indictment that Roger was asked by a Trump official to find out what Wikileaks had, that is Mueller showing his hand. And he is showing that the Trump didn't know what Wikileaks had, and had no direct way of finding out.

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GDViking said:

Oh common they were coordinating the timing of the releases, stone was clearly just asked to find out what they were releasing next...

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HumblePi said:

you don't need to lecture me on J.Edgar, I know all about the guy. McCabe is nothing like J. Edgar Hoover. McCabe has information on Trump that he can't release because it's under seal. But maybe.....just maybe when it does get released, Trump is going to hear that big fat lady sing finally.

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dixon01767 said:

Its like a religion to you people. Your faith is unwavering.

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HumblePi said:

you don't need to lecture me on J.Edgar, I know all about the guy. McCabe is nothing like J. Edgar Hoover. McCabe has information on Trump that he can't release because it's under seal. But maybe.....just maybe when it does get released, Trump is going to hear that big fat lady sing finally.

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Athanasius68 said:

Oh please-- the concern in appointing Mueller wasn't whether Flynn had properly registered as a foreign agent...

The July 2018 indictments will never be seen inside of an American court. All it accomplished was making Russia 'not guilty' of interfering in the election.

When Mueller explains in his Stone indictment that Roger was asked by a Trump official to find out what Wikileaks had, that is Mueller showing his hand. And he is showing that the Trump didn't know what Wikileaks had, and had no direct way of finding out.

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upsideguy said:

Oh please, do you have to be disingenuous as well? Do you not understand how prosecutions of organized crimes work? Do you think Flynn was offered a plea deal because that is all they had on him?

Flynn lied about contacts with the Russian government during the campaign and the transition, with the latter not only being an egregious violation of the Logan Act, but clearly part of the "quo"; telling Moscow not to sweat the Obama sanctions. (and there is much, much more "quo").

Manafort, Gates, Flynn, Papodopolous, Pinedo, Van der Zwann have each plead guilty to lesser crimes relating to Russia because Mueller's team believed there were greater crimes committed by more powerful people. That is the way an organized crime investigation is prosecuted.

Apparently you refuse to read the July indictments because you chose to live in ignorance. Had you actually read them, you would understand they were all about the predicate. No one ever expected the GRU personnel to prosecuted, but the indictments set the placeholder for Americans to be charged. The indictment made the conspiracy pretty clear, and alluded to the fact that Stone was a part of the conspiracy.

It is not currently known if the POTUS was involved directly or indirectly, was a architect or an unwitting accomplice, but there was a conspiracy AND there is more to come in providing definition for the conspiracy.



Mueller's charter, however, is much broader than conspiracy. It includes understanding ALL of the ties between members of the Trump campaign (not just Trump) and Russia. This would include understanding the financing of the Trump Organization, including allegations that the Russians have bankrolled Trump for more than 10 years AND allegations that the Trump Organization has laundered Russian money for at least a decade.

How Russian Money Helped Save Trump’s Business – Foreign Policy
Subscribe to read | Financial Times
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article150517907.html
Trump's opposition research firm: Russia's intelligence agencies - Los Angeles Times
Is Donald Trump’s Dark Russian Secret Hiding in Deutsche Bank’s Vaults?
https://whowhatwhy.org/2018/01/08/deutsche-bank-global-bank-oligarchs-american-russian-part-1/

The question is: Is Trump owned by Russia. His actions to date suggest that is true.

But, let's agree on one thing: even if Trump is somehow an angel in all of this, he is still a fool for surrounding himself with so many bad apples with Russian ties. It would have been malfeasance for the FBI to NOT have thoroughly investigated all of this.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...ies-chart-flynn-page-manafort-sessions-214868

http://time.com/4433880/donald-trump-ties-to-russia/
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/12/...-trump-associates-during-campaign-transition/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-contacts-idUSKCN18E106
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/collusion-donald-trump-us-russia-fbi-mueller-investigation-1.4601161
http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/29/news/donald-trump-russia-ties/index.html
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html

Trump brought this on himself. If Trump is not the most corrupt man ever to darken the door of the White House, he most certainly is its biggest fool.

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Athanasius68 said:

The first step in an organized crime prosecution is to prove there is an organized crime. That a conspiracy actually exists and it is not the product of an imaginative prosecutor. That's why you get the little guys to plead guilty to their role in the conspiracy. Mueller has done NONE of that with respects too Flynn, PapaD et. al. The idea that he will start from scratch with these guys is absurd. The indictments of those Russians is meaningless as a substitute as indictments are not proof of guilt.
Moreover, as I indicated earlier, all those Russian indictments only served to give Russia legally, the benefit of the doubt that they sought to screw with the election.

Russia was never hermetically sealed, like North Korea or Albania. If you wish to argue that Mueller's job is also to look for ties between Trump and Russia, then we are going to have to examine that in context of anyone else's ties to Russia. Naturally, at this point the Clinton's have far greater ties.

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upsideguy said:

Ah, so you meet my well documented post with no third party support for your assertions whatsoever. Again, the conspiracy was well described in the indictments of Feb and Jul 2018. Sorry you can't get your head wrapped around that. You think I am off base, show us a substantive and SUPPORTED argument. Do a little research. You might actually learn something and elevate your game.

Mueller’s Art of War – Member Feature Stories – Medium

Robert Mueller's Russia investigation explained - News - The Columbus Dispatch - Columbus, OH

What Mueller's Indictment Reveals - The Atlantic

You merely pull stuff out of your head with complete disregard for the truth of your line of argument. Its pretty clear to anyone reading this sub-thread as to who is informed on this issue and who lives in an intellectual cave As its pointless to argue with ignorance. I am done here. Case closed. Good day.

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EnigmaO01 said:

:lamo

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apdst said:

That's racist.

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Athanasius68 said:

The first step in an organized crime prosecution is to prove there is an organized crime. That a conspiracy actually exists and it is not the product of an imaginative prosecutor. That's why you get the little guys to plead guilty to their role in the conspiracy. Mueller has done NONE of that with respects too Flynn, PapaD et. al. The idea that he will start from scratch with these guys is absurd. The indictments of those Russians is meaningless as a substitute as indictments are not proof of guilt.
Moreover, as I indicated earlier, all those Russian indictments only served to give Russia legally, the benefit of the doubt that they sought to screw with the election.

Russia was never hermetically sealed, like North Korea or Albania. If you wish to argue that Mueller's job is also to look for ties between Trump and Russia, then we are going to have to examine that in context of anyone else's ties to Russia. Naturally, at this point the Clinton's have far greater ties.

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LouC said:

On a side note here.

Love your Signature line!

Another interesting thing about the people who killed Anne Frank, they were also making Germany great again!

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EnigmaO01 said:

How the hell do you know what Mueller hasn't done? Unless you have a view inside the investigation you don't know squat.

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Athanasius68 said:

Because he has already indicted/charged/convicted these guys.
How many people do you think there are?

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