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Negotiators reach deal ‘in principle’ to avert shutdown

Common Sense 1 said:
I agree with your assessment plus I saw a limit on the number of beds. I don't think it will be accepted. We will see?
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The deal is, IMHO a turd. I understand that it provides little or no money for additional CBP agents but more for detainee "caregiver" positions. The cut in beds is inexcusable, IMHO, it's as if the committee wants to turn illegals loose on the American public, based on a questionable premise they'll return for their hearings.
 
Chomsky said:
The Rio Grande Valley was chosen due to it not requiring eminent domain. Essentially, they're giving Trump his monument to himself as cheaply and feasibly as possible!
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I respect your opinions and the way you conduct yourself on the forum a lot, so take this in that spirit. The absolutely idiotic idea that somehow the wall is nothing more than "Trump's memorial to himself" is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. We've been building physical barriers along the border for decades, and they are effective where they stand. We use physical barriers throughout the country and the world to keep people out or in a location. What makes a wall on the Mexican border any different?
 
Born Free said:
I noticed you did not mention Pelosi, who has repeated she will not give a dollar for a wall. As I understand there is money for a wall, and she said there will never be money for a wall and it's immoral. Did she cave? The bill has to be approved by the House and if Pelosi say "no" it's dead. In that case it will never reach Trump's desk.

What say you
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She meant there'll never be the many ten's of billions you'd need to make the wall. With a billion you might be able to get a couple of miles. I find it sad but hilarious that you guys are trying to find a win in this.
 
Bullseye said:
That was a year ago. No matter how many times you bring it up it's immaterial to the current situation.
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OK, then you tell me when Trump first made his $6B OR ELSE!! demand for wall funding for FY 2019. When was Congress informed of this drop dead number? :shrug:

As best I can tell it was AFTER the Senate passed their CR on unanimous voice vote. That was December 2018.

What's kind of funny is it doesn't even really matter. It's a huge part of the job of POTUS to work with Congress and convince them, Trump's allies in this case, to fund his priorities, and Trump failed, miserably, on his stupid wall. As people keep pointing out, $6B isn't a big number. Should have been a no brainer in the House but it wasn't.

:failpail:
 
JasperL said:
OK, then you tell me when Trump first made his $6B OR ELSE!! demand for wall funding for FY 2019. When was Congress informed of this drop dead number? :shrug:

As best I can tell it was AFTER the Senate passed their CR on unanimous voice vote. That was December 2018.

What's kind of funny is it doesn't even really matter. It's a huge part of the job of POTUS to work with Congress and convince them, Trump's allies in this case, to fund his priorities, and Trump failed, miserably, on his stupid wall. As people keep pointing out, $6B isn't a big number. Should have been a no brainer in the House but it wasn't.

:failpail:
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LOL, you're wondering off into the weeds again. We've been over all this before. Have a day.
 
Bullseye said:
LOL, you're wondering off into the weeds again. We've been over all this before. Have a day.
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You said it isn't relevant that Trump's WH budget requested $1.6B, so when did he notify Congress of his $5.6B/$6B "or else!" ask? It's a simple question, the answer to which will prove your point, presumably. So why not just do it?
 
Idiometer said:
Ah ... so they must have a hearing before being deported? I was not aware of that.

The Obama administration deported more illegals with criminal records than any other administration. How did they manage it with the facilities and personnel they had? I suspect the only reason Trump and friends can't manage the same is because they've decided to focus all of their resources on separating children from their parents. Apparently, being heartless and cruel takes a lot of resources.
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While you think it is a focusing of resources on 'separating children from parents', lest we forget that Obama operated under the same rules, so his administration isn't exempt from taking that action.

I suspect that its more a focus on 100% enforcement, because, as we know, the Obama administration had their own ideas as to which laws to enforce and which not to enforce, tied directly to whether they liked the law or not.

This 'separating children from their parents' is not a Trump administration development, and has been law since the Clinton administration, if I recall correctly, with a federal court ruling instituting this as being included in the applicable laws. The specific ruling, which I can't recall off hand right now, was very much discussed here back when the political propaganda media invented the false narrative that the Trump administration was the first to do this - a complete lie on their part. The truth is that the political propaganda media ignored and / or underreported this aspect of border control enforcement until the Trump administration because of their TDS and political bias.
 
ludin said:
nope but i am sure people are not happy with it bu tthat means well it worked the way it was supposed to work.
the question now is will trump sign it.

that is the biggest issue.
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Yep. If no one's happy, it's probably a good deal! ;)
 
Born Free said:
I noticed you did not mention Pelosi, who has repeated she will not give a dollar for a wall. As I understand there is money for a wall, and she said there will never be money for a wall and it's immoral. Did she cave? The bill has to be approved by the House and if Pelosi say "no" it's dead. In that case it will never reach Trump's desk.

What say you
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From what I see, no one is really happy with the deal ... which means it's probably a fair deal! :mrgreen:
 
Bullseye said:
I respect your opinions and the way you conduct yourself on the forum a lot, so take this in that spirit. The absolutely idiotic idea that somehow the wall is nothing more than "Trump's memorial to himself" is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. We've been building physical barriers along the border for decades, and they are effective where they stand. We use physical barriers throughout the country and the world to keep people out or in a location. What makes a wall on the Mexican border any different?
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Thanks for the compliment. And, likewise. :thumbs:

Alright, I respect your opinion here.

Part of the problem is, we haven't tried a concerted effort at the border, before we are forced to resort to a wall. And the other part is, it's difficult to reward Trump's bad behaviour with a wall. In fact, in general it's hard to give Trump much of anything because he treats everyone so badly. He's his own worst enemy.
 
Chomsky said:
From what I see, no one is really happy with the deal ... which means it's probably a fair deal! :mrgreen:
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That didn't answer my question, did Pelosi cave. She's repeated herself so many times no money for the wall. Period. Then she caved and said one dollar she would cough up and no more. Period. Will this bill pass with Pelosi's approval? If so then she caved on her promise not to fund the wall.

What say you
 
Runs like a hostage negotiation really doesn't it? See what I did last time to those 80,000 families? I can do it again. Nice country you got here, wouldn't want to see anything happen to it...why don't you just give me the 5 billion for my wall?
 
Chomsky said:
Thanks for the compliment. And, likewise. :thumbs:

Alright, I respect your opinion here.

Part of the problem is, we haven't tried a concerted effort at the border, before we are forced to resort to a wall. And the other part is, it's difficult to reward Trump's bad behaviour with a wall. In fact, in general it's hard to give Trump much of anything because he treats everyone so badly. He's his own worst enemy.
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Don't regard it as "rewarding Trump"; look at it as another step in establishing acceptable border security. As the saying goes "It's easy to accomplish great things if you don't care who gets credit". IMHO that should be the official motto of both houses of Congress.
 
Chomsky said:
Negotiators reach deal ‘in principle’ to avert shutdown
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Now we have to wait and see what slime ball will do.

It's always about the show, the drama with him.

Any other president would have no problem with it as both bodies, both parties agreed on it.

But slime ball has to make a show of it.... **** the country, what is best for himself is all he cares about.
 
Chomsky said:
Thanks for the compliment. And, likewise. :thumbs:

Alright, I respect your opinion here.

Part of the problem is, we haven't tried a concerted effort at the border, before we are forced to resort to a wall. And the other part is, it's difficult to reward Trump's bad behaviour with a wall. In fact, in general it's hard to give Trump much of anything because he treats everyone so badly. He's his own worst enemy.
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I would never ever think you would say something like that. Your admitting that those that hate Trump (liberals) because he rattles a few cages, will not approve any bill for Trump. That is exactly what the liberals are doing, hating Trump over love of country. You announce that the liberals will not give Trump a win no matter how it would be beneficial for our country. That's sick.
 
Born Free said:
That didn't answer my question, did Pelosi cave. She's repeated herself so many times no money for the wall. Period. Then she caved and said one dollar she would cough up and no more. Period. Will this bill pass with Pelosi's approval? If so then she caved on her promise not to fund the wall.

What say you
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Not a "cave", but she did compromise. To call it a cave would imply a full failure. This wasn't that. The fact that she gave Trump slightly less this time, than she gave to him in the first (pre-shutdown) bill, shows me that while both won & lost some, Trump lost more (& Pelosi won more).
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Ah yes, and that's why you not getting even 1% what the wall will cost is a total victory for you.
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Trump has received money for the wall before, now he's getting more money for the wall. And you can go to the bank on this one, he's not finished yet.
 
noonereal said:
Now we have to wait and see what slime ball will do.

It's always about the show, the drama with him.

Any other president would have no problem with it as both bodies, both parties agreed on it.

But slime ball has to make a show of it.... **** the country, what is best for himself is all he cares about.
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Well, he's waiting to see what Right Wing media does. He always does this. He waits to see how it reverberates, then subsequently makes his decision based upon that.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Ah yes, and that's why you not getting even 1% what the wall will cost is a total victory for you.
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Mexico is not even getting 1%.

It is now easy to understand why TRump was a failure in business.
 
Bullseye said:
That was a year ago. No matter how many times you bring it up it's immaterial to the current situation.
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No. It's very much part of the issue.

In his first term, with a united majority in congress, Trump asked for nothing for a wall. Nor again in the second year. Now, he has lost his majority in the house, which till recently he seemed to ignore.

But, since Kelly Ann Conway carved him a new one it has been $5.7 billion or nothing. It was $ 5 billion before that. A year ago it was one billion.

Three months ago and all through the campaign is has been a "big, beautiful wall of concrete and rebar...". Now it's a "barrier".

So the question arises, exactly what is he building, out of what and where? For two years it has been ignored, not even any surveying, soil tests, drawings or a report on the conditions. HE has no idea whether they are drilling into rock or digging in sand.

The one billion $ figure, the lack of any research clearly paint this for exactly what it is.....an invented issue to drive his little brown shirts into a frenzy.
 
Born Free said:
I would never ever think you would say something like that. Your admitting that those that hate Trump (liberals) because he rattles a few cages, will not approve any bill for Trump. That is exactly what the liberals are doing, hating Trump over love of country. You announce that the liberals will not give Trump a win no matter how it would be beneficial for our country. That's sick.
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What I'm saying is, Pelosi should not reward Trump for shutting down the government.

And that looks like exactly what happened. Trump got around 15-20% less in his post-shutdown bill (money, beds), than she gave him in his pre-shutdown bill.
 
Chomsky said:
Not a "cave", but she did compromise. To call it a cave would imply a full failure. This wasn't that. The fact that she gave Trump slightly less this time, than she gave to him in the first (pre-shutdown) bill, shows me that while both won & lost some, Trump lost more (& Pelosi won more).
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She failed on her promise to NOT fund the wall. No different then you libs said Trump caved when he opened up the government. It sure seems to me that Trump got something done that no president or congress person in decades was able to do. Get a package that covers all the needs of border security. Now Trump has a big package for border security that was never done before him. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I see it she caved on her promise to not fund the wall. She said no funding for the wall, now she'll approve funding the wall. That is a cave if I ever saw one. We can call her a liar and that you can't believe a word she says. As for winners vs losers, Trump won for the country and he is not done yet, not by a long shot. For once a president took on border security in a real way and look at the total package. That package came about only because of Trump.

As I'm sure you know there are all kinds of ways to get money in the government.
 
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