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Negotiators reach deal ‘in principle’ to avert shutdown

vesper said:
He could sign a CR if he doesn't get what he wants in line of what border experts claim they need and if he does that, he is in for the long game.
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I do not believe he can generate a CR. All spending bills must originate in the House.
 
MovingPictures said:
AnguishedIdealHoverfly-size_restricted.gif


So, Trump got the Democrats to go from $25 billion, down to $5.6 billion, then to $1.6 billion, back up to $2 billion, and now all the way down to $1.3 billion.

#SoMuchWinning
#MasterNegotiator

And this is the same person in charge of talks with North Korea.
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It's going to be - if this bill passes - 55 miles of fence on public land in the Rio Grande valley.
 
Chomsky said:
CNN is reporting:

- A "no concrete wall" waiver is in the deal.

- The fencing will be 55 miles in the Rio Grande valley, not requiring Eminent domain.
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Koulter is going to lose her ****.
 
Chomsky said:
Well, it's a naturally occurring cap that is predicated by the number of beds available. Apparently long-term detainment is done by prioritizing the detainees according to the severity of the detainment provisions, such as the type of crime they committed.

Similar to prisons that divert the lower risk and lower severity inmates to other forms of non-incarceration, due to a finite number of prison beds.
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Yet those "other criminals" are not in the country illegally and are legally allowed to work. Around here many "undocumented" (and thus uninsured) drivers are a common occurance leading to many "hit and run" collisions. How "serious" that type of crime is depends on many factors, but it does cause injury and death in addition to loads of uncompensated property damage.

Nearly 11,000 hit-and-runs reported in Austin this year | KEYE

Our local bar, and a historic treasure, was burned to the ground when a 'mystery' driver crashed into the kicthen an burned it to the ground. They knew who owned the vehicle but 'nobody' knew who was driving it that night.

Historic Central Texas Dancehall Destroyed by Fire | KUT
 
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eohrnberger said:
Hmm. The Madness.

It's at the border.
It's Madness to hamstring law enforcement agencies with the bed cap turning the entire nation in the sanctuary nation, forcing the law enforcement agencies to turn lose illegal aliens who have been arrested on crimes in addition to their illegal entry crimes.
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The problem is, there's going to have to some other congressional or constitutional solution.

Here's the conflicting parameters:

1] Everyone on American soil is entitled to due process

2] Everyone on American soil is entitled to request asylum

3] In practical terms, we can't be locking-up for many months and years all the asylum seekers

So - I think it's hit the point where we have to tweak some of this stuff somehow, in terms of immigration.
 
Chomsky said:
My gut says it will get done. Neither party has the stomach for another shutdown, particularly the Repubs. I suspect McConnel will do anything to punt, and wash his hands.
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I one hundred percent agree with you about McConnell, he's smart enough to recognize the damage the first one caused the R's. Hopefully when the agreement in principle reaches the principals office, he'll sign this time. I think it will go through and then our commander in chief will declare his emergency. One way or another he said...and when that fails he can tell his base it's everyone's fault but his own. Another massive shot of I'm a victim of the trump haters. His base will go nuts waving their hats and yelling MAGA, MAGA.
 
Chomsky said:
The problem is, there's going to have to some other congressional or constitutional solution.

Here's the conflicting parameters:

1] Everyone on American soil is entitled to due process

2] Everyone on American soil is entitled to request asylum

3] In practical terms, we can't be locking-up for many months and years all the asylum seekers

So - I think it's hit the point where we have to tweak some of this stuff somehow, in terms of immigration.
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Agreed, very conflicting parameters, without a doubt.
But yet, it needs to be dealt with, as the present catch and release and disappear method of operation surely isn't in the nation's best interests.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Yet those "other criminals" are not in the country illegally and are legally allowed to work. Around here many "undocumented" (and thus uninsured) drivers are a common occurance leading to many "hit and run" collisions. How "serious" that type of crime is depends on many factors, but it does cause injury and death in addition to loads of uncompensated property damage.

Nearly 11,000 hit-and-runs reported in Austin this year | KEYE
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Well, I'm not going to argue with that point. As an American in a Northern city, I'm broken-hearted to see what you guys are going through down there.

I'm not sure if the wall is feasible or effective, but I'd absolutely like to see more effort & resources to secure the border. And (mandated) E-Verify. I want that, very much.
 
Chomsky said:
Well, it's a naturally occurring cap that is predicated by the number of beds available. Apparently long-term detainment is done by prioritizing the detainees according to the severity of the detainment provisions, such as the type of crime they committed.

Similar to prisons that divert the lower risk and lower severity inmates to other forms of non-incarceration, due to a finite number of prison beds.
Click to expand...

I don't support decreasing the number of beds and think it's crazy that legislators want to tell ICE how to do their job. They're basically telling them to do more with less.
I hope Republicans hold firm on this ridiculous proposal.
I know Dems want to placate the "abolish ICE" radicals in their ranks, but this isn't wise for the country. The radicals can adjust their expectations.
 
Chomsky said:
O.K., Cuomo (on CNN) is claiming 1.3B for "physical barrier", and 40K beds.

We know where the money stands (20% of that demanded), but does anyone know where the beds' stand?
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We're getting a wall!
 
bongsaway said:
I one hundred percent agree with you about McConnell, he's smart enough to recognize the damage the first one caused the R's. Hopefully when the agreement in principle reaches the principals office, he'll sign this time. I think it will go through and then our commander in chief will declare his emergency. One way or another he said...and when that fails he can tell his base it's everyone's fault but his own. Another massive shot of I'm a victim of the trump haters. His base will go nuts waving their hats and yelling MAGA, MAGA.
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:lamo

Well said, with the bolded! :thumbs:
 
Chomsky said:
Well, I'm not going to argue with that point. As an American in a Northern city, I'm broken-hearted to see what you guys are going through down there.

I'm not sure if the wall is feasible or effective, but I'd absolutely like to see more effort & resources to secure the border. And (mandated) E-Verify. I want that, very much.
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YES! Will we ever do this tho?
 
There is funding for a border wall-fence of 1.375 billion. So, the wall didn't fare too well in this deal.
 
Acadia said:
I don't support decreasing the number of beds and think it's crazy that legislators want to tell ICE how to do their job. They're basically telling them to do more with less.
I hope Republicans hold firm on this ridiculous proposal.
I know Dems want to placate the "abolish ICE" radicals in their ranks, but this isn't wise for the country. The radicals can adjust their expectations.
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Politicians would prefer to take a win than do what is best for the country!
 
MovingPictures said:
AnguishedIdealHoverfly-size_restricted.gif


So, Trump got the Democrats to go from $25 billion, down to $5.6 billion, then to $1.6 billion, back up to $2 billion, and now all the way down to $1.3 billion.

#SoMuchWinning
#MasterNegotiator

And this is the same person in charge of talks with North Korea.
Click to expand...

Said no one, ever, when Obama was President.
 
eohrnberger said:
Agreed, very conflicting parameters, without a doubt.
But yet, it needs to be dealt with, as the present catch and release and disappear method of operation surely isn't in the nation's best interests.
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Agreed 100%!

Like I was saying to others above, I don't know if a wall is an effectual or cost-effective solution, but something needs to be done. While it's true illegal immigration is greatly reduced from two decades ago, it still needs to be addressed.
 
Chomsky said:
Trump cannot veto it. It will be his political demise.

As I've been saying from the day he reopened the government three weeks ago, if he gets a bill he will sign it and either:

1] Claim victory

or,

2] Declare an emergency

Recently he's apparently been looking at pilfering funds from other departments, so he may try and sneak that in there - too.
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Between your two predictions, why choose? He's likely to do both.
 
Acadia said:
I don't support decreasing the number of beds and think it's crazy that legislators want to tell ICE how to do their job. They're basically telling them to do more with less.
I hope Republicans hold firm on this ridiculous proposal.
I know Dems want to placate the "abolish ICE" radicals in their ranks, but this isn't wise for the country. The radicals can adjust their expectations.
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Actually, I think it's an increase in beds from the current level.

But you know, I think I'm coming to the conclusion that this problem is going to have to be attacked in some other manner, more comprehensively.

Check-out my 3 conflicting parameters in my post #30, above. How do you possibly reconcile those 3 parameters to coexist?
 
Chomsky said:
Agreed 100%!

Like I was saying to others above, I don't know if a wall is an effectual or cost-effective solution, but something needs to be done. While it's true illegal immigration is greatly reduced from two decades ago, it still needs to be addressed.
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I'd be inclined to allow the people on the front lines of this, the CBP and ICE allocate whatever funds they receive to what they believe to be the best effect.
You gotta figure that they are dealing with this day in and day out, and over the course of years of doing different things know what is most effective.

A physical border, it has been reported, forces the traffic to ports of entry, which, if properly equipped, have a good chance to intercept the illegal smuggling of people and contraband, which is the objective, is it not?
 
I heard the committee is offering $1.5 to $2.0 billion for 55 miles in the Rio Grand Valley. IMHO, Trump's not likely to take an offer of less than half of his initial demand. He may surprise me, however.
 
Acadia said:
YES! Will we ever do this tho?
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See, this is why I have a hard time taking Trump seriously on his wall.

Why fight for this huge project that will take tons of money, a decade or more of time, and God only knows how much maintenance, yet not mandate E-Verify? It's free (already funded), it's in place, and it's 100% functional.

If he were serious about saving American jobs, he'd do it (in my opinion).
 
Chomsky said:
Trump cannot veto it. It will be his political demise.

As I've been saying from the day he reopened the government three weeks ago, if he gets a bill he will sign it and either:

1] Claim victory

or,

2] Declare an emergency

Recently he's apparently been looking at pilfering funds from other departments, so he may try and sneak that in there - too.
Click to expand...

Ditto, surely Trump isn't that dumb. His polls dropped ten percent last time, how far does he want to push it? That said, who knows just how dumb he is?

But you're right, he has other options. He can always declare victory (lie) anyway or go with an 'emergency' that looks pretty bad but at least won't close the shop again. Or as you said, find a way to [mis]appropriate the funds from elsewhere.

Either way it doesn't equal a wall. They'll dig a few post holes with the first few billion and then have to fight again for the next round of funding. And the next and next after that, till long after he's out of office, two terms or not. And who will carry the trump tiki torch then?
 
Acadia said:
I don't support decreasing the number of beds and think it's crazy that legislators want to tell ICE how to do their job. They're basically telling them to do more with less.
I hope Republicans hold firm on this ridiculous proposal.
I know Dems want to placate the "abolish ICE" radicals in their ranks, but this isn't wise for the country. The radicals can adjust their expectations.
Click to expand...

More with less, I remember that business commercial meant to rally the hourly wage slaves, do more with less the boss will love you. When did ICE become an independent organization who gets to make their own rules? Why not just hire blackwater too?

Every person from the right is absolutely correct about democrats, we hate america, we want open borders with no consequences, we kill babies, roast and eat them, we want free everything and get paid $100 and hour for receiving the free stuff. We want guns abolished, religion abolished, confederate anything abolished, we want to tax the rich until they are poor, kill capitalism and install the dreaded socialism. We are communists, marxists, socialists radical liberals and are out to destroy america.
 
I'll predict the agreement is not to Trump's liking, or they be running it across town with sirens blaring, loudspeakers and Alexas cranked to 11. Everyone else knows already.

I think this must be a teeny tiny bit like governing in North Korea. Having arrived at a (presumably) reasonable agreement, we must all now wait with bated breath to see if our master is feeling reasonable today.
 
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